Paradise Lost – eSwitzerland in EDEN (ENG-hu)
Day 721, 12:57
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Published in Switzerland 
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by
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by Tomi_ur
12:55 server time, Day 721 (10 November 2009)
Dear eHungarians, dear eSwiss,
on the 9th of November, 2009, eSwitzerland joined EDEN. As to myself, I consider it a false step in political aspect, however, I respect it as a decision of a sovereign country. My thoughts about this issue in moral aspect would be described mostly by the word „betrayal”. However, this article is not about this latter aspect. I would like to react on eSwiss president Eleriel’s writing which sets out the reasons for joining EDEN. As a deputy MoFA it was me who led the negotiations between eHungary and eSwitzerland on behalf of eHungary. For this reason on behalf of eHungary it can be me who knows mostly all circumstances which were quoted why eSwitzerland joined EDEN.
1. In general, the biggest problem with Eleriel’s article, that it keeps back some information or it misrepresents the real facts.
2. Let’s begin at the beginning. The first false element of Eleriel’s article is the presentation of the concept of the negotiations. It was not money that eHungary ask in return to liberate the eSwiss regions. EHungary asked eSwitzerland to buy companies located in original eSwiss regions which eHungary didn’t want to manage in the long run. It is not the same. A company in itself belongs to means of production that you can make profit with. So eSwitzerland got not only regions for her money but also infrastructure of economy.
3. As for Deutschschweiz, it is true that eSwitzerland bought companies for 500 golds from eHungary. The companies that were bought: a food company of Q4, with 4 licenses, for 180 gold; a weapon company of Q4, with 3 licenses, for 200 golds; and a food company of Q3, with 4 licenses, for 120 golds. Total 500 golds. As you can see, eSwitzerland bought valuable companies, at a good price, comparatively. Founding a food company of Q4, with 4 licenses costs 270 golds, founding a weapon company of Q4, with 3 licenses costs 250 golds, founding a food company of Q3, with 4 licenses costs 170 golds. The total value of founding of the sold companies is 690 golds. So eSwitzerland bought companies of 690 golds for 500 golds and she got Deutschschweiz in return. The cost of the RW was paid by the eSwiss. I notice that the reason why Eleriel found the „price” of Deutschschweiz so high may be the fact that at first he didn’t buy the proper company that we agreed by mistake but another so it was an extra cost of 120 golds for the Community of eSwitzerland.
4. I quote form Eleriel’s article: ”ongoing talks with Hungary, and their chief negotiator for our country tells me that the maximum price for our regions will be 300g. When I point out that we have only medium regions, and that the US, in the proposed but not accepted peace treaty (when they were invaded) only had to pay 200g for medium regions, I was told that the US is a larger threat than Switzerland, so I don’t really get a choice.”. First of all. At the negotiation of 18th of September, 2009, it was said that the equivalent of liberating all eSwiss regions (4 regions) is 1415 golds. For this price eSwitzerland could have bought 8 companies. As the eSwiss were to buy companies for 500 golds for Deutschschweiz, dividing the rest of 915 golds by 3 we got around 300 golds per region. When I told this to Eleriel he said „Sounds good”.
5. As for the difference between the „price” of eSwiss and eAmerican regions (300 golds – 200 golds), at the discussion of 11th of October, 2009, I drew Eleriel’s attention to the fact that the eUSA is a different case. In relation of the eUSA the price of the region would have contained a non-agression pact (NAP) between the eUSA and eHungary, and a NAP with the eUSA is not equivalent to a NAP with eSwitzerland. Eleriel’s answer: „True”. For this reason, Eleriel’s reference to the difference between prices is baseless. ESwitzerland and the eUSA is not the same cathegory, I don’t think it has to be explained to anyone.
6. Eleriel states that eSwitzerland ”got absolutely no help from Hungary during the Congress elections.” It is false. We sent voters to eSwitzerland as well to prevent eSwitzerland from a hostile PTO. It is true that the averting of the EDEN PTO in eBelgium got more attention.
7. Eleriel says that „we’re asking for Romandie back, and they [the eHungarians] are pretty much telling me to wait, because of some obscure reasons.” It is not true. The government of eSwitzerland and eHungary agreed that only one region would be liberated before congress elections to minimize the threat of a PTO as 2 regions meant 20 congress seats and 1 region meant 10 congress seats and the latter is easier to secure.
8. According to Eleriel „suddenly, they start seeing major defeats in North America, and they need to get rid of useless regions which EDEN is using for distraction. So what do they do? Well they tell me I have 1h to find 390 gold, and pay for the resistance war in Romandie, or they will just go somewhere else. Notice that the price suddenly goes up from 300 to 390. Anyway, we pay up, as we have no real choice, and we get Romandie back.” It is true that the defeats in North America took part in returning Romandie, but this reason was not the only reason. We already had a talk at the discussion of 21st of October, 2009, that further regions (so Romandie) were likely to be returned between the 26th and the 31st of October. So the situation didn’t take him by surprise. On the other hand, at the same time I let him know that we couldn’t settle an exact price of 300 golds because of the differences of the prices of the companies to buy. So the statement „the price suddenly goes up from 300 to 390” is false as well. It is not true that eSwitzerland had no choice. She could have decided not to buy the companies.
9. It is true that on the 27th of October, 2009, on Tuesday, region Svizzera italiana was given back to eSwitzerland in return to buy a company of 50 golds. The RW was paid by an eHungarian, Varga Balazs.
10. It is true that eSwitzerland and eHungary had negotiations on a NAP. It is true as well that one of the drafts of the NAP contained the points below:
- eSwitzerland shall not sign mutual protection pacts (alliances) with eCroatia, eRomania and eUSA during this NAP.
- eSwitzerland shall not attack directly the states that eHungary has mutual protection pacts (alliances) with.
- Parties state that region Graubunden, an original region of eSwitzerland is a region of eHungary.
- It is true that we would have signed a NAP for 6 months.
However, Eleriel forgot a few details from his article. He didn’t mention that the original draft would have precluded signing MPP-s with all EDEN countries and that the reason why the newer version of the NAP contained precluding MPP-s only with eCroatia, eRomania and eUSA, because we accepted his arguments. Eleriel forgot that it was he who proposed the above-mentioned countries to preclude. I notice, at this time eSwitzerland didn’t already get the Q5 hospital to Romandie from the eUSA, it happened on the 30th of October, 2009. However, after the 30th of October, after eSwitzerland had obtained the Q5 hospital from the eUSA, Eleriel changed his opinion and he refused precluding of signing MPP with eUSA. Eleriel didn’t mention that we deleted the point on Graubunden in the newer version of the NAP. He didn’t mention that it was he who proposed signing a NAP for 180 days. Eleriel didn’t mention that we deleted the cited provision that eSwitzerland cannot sign MPP-s with eCroatia, eRomania and eUSA, and only the other provision remained in the newer draft that eSwitzerland shall not attack directly the states that eHungary has MPP-s with. On the basis of these facts, the statement „Just a few quick extracts, to show how understanding they [the eHungarians] were.” is a pure lie. During the negotiations we went as far as we could. However, we wanted to guarantee the interests of eHungary and her allies at a minimum level. That’s all we asked for. We only asked for neutrality which was promised from the beginning by Eleriel. It is not true that we wouldn’t have provided free signing of MPP-s for eSwitzerland. So it wouldn’t have been a disadavantageous NAP for eSwitzerland, it was not „outrageous”.
11. It is true that on the 2nd of November, 2009 there was a session in the eHungarian congress about the NAP. There was not any final voting on it and it is true as well that some proposals raised up to amend the NAP, just as questions. We were working on the final version of the NAP, which would have been discussed with the Government of eSwitzerland, as all prevoius versions. Unfortunately, in the meantime eSwitzerland sold herself to the eUSA, she sold her friendship, trustwortyness and loyalty. At around 4 AM, on the 3rd of November, 2009 eSwitzerland or, to be proper, Eleriel attacked region Graubunden „for fun”, without any warning, stabbing eHungary in the back practically, giving the explanation that he was bored at night and he wanted to spice up things by starting a training war. In reality, Eleriel wanted to ensure that eHungary wouldn’t overreact the MPP with the eUSA by an attack which he proposed at the same time. I don’t think we would have attacked eSwitzerland. Of course, it is easy to say now. Nevertheless the draft of the NAP between eSwitzerland and eHungary didn’t preclude the possibility of it, after signing the NAP eSwitzerland wouldn’t have been prevented from signing MPP-s.
12. Thereafter, on the 5th of November, 2009 in the open war between eHungary and eSwitzerland eHungary attacked region Deutschschweiz „for fun”, from where eHungary retreated in 6 hours having regards to the fact that eSwitzerland – as it was discussed before – proposed peace in the direct war between eHungary and eSwitzerland, and she voted on it in the appropriate percentage. Thereafter eHungary, keeping her word, didn’t attack eSwitzerland again. The congress of eHungary accepted the eSwiss peace proposal on the following day.
That’s the story.
The effects of the EDEN membership of eSwitzerland are incalculable yet. But it is not impossible that eSwitzerland will have to pay an expensive price for her present day decisions, and not Eleriel himself but all people of eSwitzerland. However, it is their business.
Kind regards,
Tomi_ur
former Deputy MoFA of eHungary
Magyar verzió
All statements in this article can be certified by logs. If you write a comment, take it into account, please.
Dear eHungarians, dear eSwiss,
on the 9th of November, 2009, eSwitzerland joined EDEN. As to myself, I consider it a false step in political aspect, however, I respect it as a decision of a sovereign country. My thoughts about this issue in moral aspect would be described mostly by the word „betrayal”. However, this article is not about this latter aspect. I would like to react on eSwiss president Eleriel’s writing which sets out the reasons for joining EDEN. As a deputy MoFA it was me who led the negotiations between eHungary and eSwitzerland on behalf of eHungary. For this reason on behalf of eHungary it can be me who knows mostly all circumstances which were quoted why eSwitzerland joined EDEN.
1. In general, the biggest problem with Eleriel’s article, that it keeps back some information or it misrepresents the real facts.
2. Let’s begin at the beginning. The first false element of Eleriel’s article is the presentation of the concept of the negotiations. It was not money that eHungary ask in return to liberate the eSwiss regions. EHungary asked eSwitzerland to buy companies located in original eSwiss regions which eHungary didn’t want to manage in the long run. It is not the same. A company in itself belongs to means of production that you can make profit with. So eSwitzerland got not only regions for her money but also infrastructure of economy.
3. As for Deutschschweiz, it is true that eSwitzerland bought companies for 500 golds from eHungary. The companies that were bought: a food company of Q4, with 4 licenses, for 180 gold; a weapon company of Q4, with 3 licenses, for 200 golds; and a food company of Q3, with 4 licenses, for 120 golds. Total 500 golds. As you can see, eSwitzerland bought valuable companies, at a good price, comparatively. Founding a food company of Q4, with 4 licenses costs 270 golds, founding a weapon company of Q4, with 3 licenses costs 250 golds, founding a food company of Q3, with 4 licenses costs 170 golds. The total value of founding of the sold companies is 690 golds. So eSwitzerland bought companies of 690 golds for 500 golds and she got Deutschschweiz in return. The cost of the RW was paid by the eSwiss. I notice that the reason why Eleriel found the „price” of Deutschschweiz so high may be the fact that at first he didn’t buy the proper company that we agreed by mistake but another so it was an extra cost of 120 golds for the Community of eSwitzerland.
4. I quote form Eleriel’s article: ”ongoing talks with Hungary, and their chief negotiator for our country tells me that the maximum price for our regions will be 300g. When I point out that we have only medium regions, and that the US, in the proposed but not accepted peace treaty (when they were invaded) only had to pay 200g for medium regions, I was told that the US is a larger threat than Switzerland, so I don’t really get a choice.”. First of all. At the negotiation of 18th of September, 2009, it was said that the equivalent of liberating all eSwiss regions (4 regions) is 1415 golds. For this price eSwitzerland could have bought 8 companies. As the eSwiss were to buy companies for 500 golds for Deutschschweiz, dividing the rest of 915 golds by 3 we got around 300 golds per region. When I told this to Eleriel he said „Sounds good”.
5. As for the difference between the „price” of eSwiss and eAmerican regions (300 golds – 200 golds), at the discussion of 11th of October, 2009, I drew Eleriel’s attention to the fact that the eUSA is a different case. In relation of the eUSA the price of the region would have contained a non-agression pact (NAP) between the eUSA and eHungary, and a NAP with the eUSA is not equivalent to a NAP with eSwitzerland. Eleriel’s answer: „True”. For this reason, Eleriel’s reference to the difference between prices is baseless. ESwitzerland and the eUSA is not the same cathegory, I don’t think it has to be explained to anyone.
6. Eleriel states that eSwitzerland ”got absolutely no help from Hungary during the Congress elections.” It is false. We sent voters to eSwitzerland as well to prevent eSwitzerland from a hostile PTO. It is true that the averting of the EDEN PTO in eBelgium got more attention.
7. Eleriel says that „we’re asking for Romandie back, and they [the eHungarians] are pretty much telling me to wait, because of some obscure reasons.” It is not true. The government of eSwitzerland and eHungary agreed that only one region would be liberated before congress elections to minimize the threat of a PTO as 2 regions meant 20 congress seats and 1 region meant 10 congress seats and the latter is easier to secure.
8. According to Eleriel „suddenly, they start seeing major defeats in North America, and they need to get rid of useless regions which EDEN is using for distraction. So what do they do? Well they tell me I have 1h to find 390 gold, and pay for the resistance war in Romandie, or they will just go somewhere else. Notice that the price suddenly goes up from 300 to 390. Anyway, we pay up, as we have no real choice, and we get Romandie back.” It is true that the defeats in North America took part in returning Romandie, but this reason was not the only reason. We already had a talk at the discussion of 21st of October, 2009, that further regions (so Romandie) were likely to be returned between the 26th and the 31st of October. So the situation didn’t take him by surprise. On the other hand, at the same time I let him know that we couldn’t settle an exact price of 300 golds because of the differences of the prices of the companies to buy. So the statement „the price suddenly goes up from 300 to 390” is false as well. It is not true that eSwitzerland had no choice. She could have decided not to buy the companies.
9. It is true that on the 27th of October, 2009, on Tuesday, region Svizzera italiana was given back to eSwitzerland in return to buy a company of 50 golds. The RW was paid by an eHungarian, Varga Balazs.
10. It is true that eSwitzerland and eHungary had negotiations on a NAP. It is true as well that one of the drafts of the NAP contained the points below:
- eSwitzerland shall not sign mutual protection pacts (alliances) with eCroatia, eRomania and eUSA during this NAP.
- eSwitzerland shall not attack directly the states that eHungary has mutual protection pacts (alliances) with.
- Parties state that region Graubunden, an original region of eSwitzerland is a region of eHungary.
- It is true that we would have signed a NAP for 6 months.
However, Eleriel forgot a few details from his article. He didn’t mention that the original draft would have precluded signing MPP-s with all EDEN countries and that the reason why the newer version of the NAP contained precluding MPP-s only with eCroatia, eRomania and eUSA, because we accepted his arguments. Eleriel forgot that it was he who proposed the above-mentioned countries to preclude. I notice, at this time eSwitzerland didn’t already get the Q5 hospital to Romandie from the eUSA, it happened on the 30th of October, 2009. However, after the 30th of October, after eSwitzerland had obtained the Q5 hospital from the eUSA, Eleriel changed his opinion and he refused precluding of signing MPP with eUSA. Eleriel didn’t mention that we deleted the point on Graubunden in the newer version of the NAP. He didn’t mention that it was he who proposed signing a NAP for 180 days. Eleriel didn’t mention that we deleted the cited provision that eSwitzerland cannot sign MPP-s with eCroatia, eRomania and eUSA, and only the other provision remained in the newer draft that eSwitzerland shall not attack directly the states that eHungary has MPP-s with. On the basis of these facts, the statement „Just a few quick extracts, to show how understanding they [the eHungarians] were.” is a pure lie. During the negotiations we went as far as we could. However, we wanted to guarantee the interests of eHungary and her allies at a minimum level. That’s all we asked for. We only asked for neutrality which was promised from the beginning by Eleriel. It is not true that we wouldn’t have provided free signing of MPP-s for eSwitzerland. So it wouldn’t have been a disadavantageous NAP for eSwitzerland, it was not „outrageous”.
11. It is true that on the 2nd of November, 2009 there was a session in the eHungarian congress about the NAP. There was not any final voting on it and it is true as well that some proposals raised up to amend the NAP, just as questions. We were working on the final version of the NAP, which would have been discussed with the Government of eSwitzerland, as all prevoius versions. Unfortunately, in the meantime eSwitzerland sold herself to the eUSA, she sold her friendship, trustwortyness and loyalty. At around 4 AM, on the 3rd of November, 2009 eSwitzerland or, to be proper, Eleriel attacked region Graubunden „for fun”, without any warning, stabbing eHungary in the back practically, giving the explanation that he was bored at night and he wanted to spice up things by starting a training war. In reality, Eleriel wanted to ensure that eHungary wouldn’t overreact the MPP with the eUSA by an attack which he proposed at the same time. I don’t think we would have attacked eSwitzerland. Of course, it is easy to say now. Nevertheless the draft of the NAP between eSwitzerland and eHungary didn’t preclude the possibility of it, after signing the NAP eSwitzerland wouldn’t have been prevented from signing MPP-s.
12. Thereafter, on the 5th of November, 2009 in the open war between eHungary and eSwitzerland eHungary attacked region Deutschschweiz „for fun”, from where eHungary retreated in 6 hours having regards to the fact that eSwitzerland – as it was discussed before – proposed peace in the direct war between eHungary and eSwitzerland, and she voted on it in the appropriate percentage. Thereafter eHungary, keeping her word, didn’t attack eSwitzerland again. The congress of eHungary accepted the eSwiss peace proposal on the following day.
That’s the story.
The effects of the EDEN membership of eSwitzerland are incalculable yet. But it is not impossible that eSwitzerland will have to pay an expensive price for her present day decisions, and not Eleriel himself but all people of eSwitzerland. However, it is their business.
Kind regards,
Tomi_ur
former Deputy MoFA of eHungary
Magyar verzió
All statements in this article can be certified by logs. If you write a comment, take it into account, please.
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Comments
Thanks.
It clears some things. I think some of the money-demands (even for companies) went a bit far, and the Swiss are right to question those - but the rest to me is (could have been) a fair deal and I too condemn what Switzerland did as betrayal. The USA bought them for hospital and they choose to kick their neutrality to the winds for that.
Quicksilver
A Q5 hospital is nothing compared to what we spend for recovering our territory so don't be stupid. We wouldn't have risk so much for so few. Another thing you forgot is that we had a Q4 hospital.
Who would be mad enough to join an alliance for only 2xp/day ?
Furthermore, I don't see why joining EDEN would be a betrayal. We didn't promise anything and we are a sovereign country.
great article
F4ucon
you said many times, Eleriel personally, that eSwitzerland will be neutral.
This so-called neutrality lasted for 2 weeks, and you joined EDEN. Our government negotiated with you because you said many times that you' re neutral.
But ok, you have the right to join any alliance or do whatever you want. just keep in mind that there will be consequences
In my opinion we did our best! Congrat for the flexibility during negotiation. I can't agree more with sentense: "My thoughts about this issue in moral aspect would be described mostly by the word „betrayal”. "
A correct article and a clear picture. Quite a shame that the irl example of neutrality is ruined by a few politicans and a president and at the end the innocent civilians will have to suffer again.
This is rather significant. I eagerly await Eleriel's rebuttal.
j'espère que le président n'ira pas en vacances à tahiti plage avec les golds de son pays après 😁
I hope that the president will not go to holidays to Tahiti beach with the golds of his country after 😁
Make your brain work guys... and read the answer of Eleriel...
And stop saying we were bought: we could say the same about all the non-founding members of PEACE: you bought them, you'll say no but then I'll answer that you offered them protection or be wiped out the map...
The company buying was a disaster, even worse would have been paid. But the stupidest mistake was the betrayal of the neutrality and join in EDEN.
BB=>
Yes, we said we would like to be neutral but neutrality wasn't an option.
The proof is that you attacked us as we were neutral. You also conquered Slovakia.
How could we remain neutral if your country threatens us and other neutral countries ?
We know that joining an alliance will have consequences but what's better ? Be conquered after two days of neutrality and no fight or make things much more difficult for the ennemy ?
Tomi_ur: don't cry now, please
Hungary offered Switzerland peace BEFORE it attacked Deutschschweiz. It was accepted.
Still, Hungary attacked shortly after (my guess is they tricked Switzerland by doing a side-peace thing in the Croatian war, not offer a peace treaty in the Swiss-Hungarian war).
If Hungary had actually wanted real peace, they would've had that before the Graubunden attack. The choice to continue the war was theirs.
Hungary, please STFU and GTFO.
Actually, how about you keep attacking neutral nations so they join EDEN 😛