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o/ Brolliance!

nice article, thanks

o7 Awesome!

voted and a great read!

o/ Brolliance

\o/ Brolliance

99% import taxes are hearsay in america

I usually agree with quite a lot of things you post but I have to say...

Titanium region will be given to the US over my dead body.

Canada will be able to get the workforce to work Titanium and I'll see to that. No way I am going to let anyone sell out Canada so you can brown nose the US especially when their economy is managed so badly. You are going to get the fight of the century if you think you can push this idea. This will be like NB hospital x 10.

I think you need to look at the facts.... If Canada doesnt rent their titanium it will kill all the other land industries in Canada.

Want proof?

take a look at the skyrocketing land workers wages... it wont be long before other land companies start crying for help because they cant compete with the wages offered by the flourishing diamond/titanium market

I think you need to look at the facts. The fact is with Titanium, Canada have a chance to become a super power and go warring on its own rather than sending people abroad to fight for other countries all the time.

USA, Spain, Poland have all the fun they got going to war. About time Canada get a piece of action.

I think it is totally crass that before we even got titanium regions in our hands, all these outta touch people working at EDEN/SHIELD high council think they can sell out Canada and the public so they can boot lick the other countries.

Great article, one of the best I've read.
BRO!

A very good article - It's making me seriously reconsider my position on the renting out of our Titanium regions.

I'm all for Canada making a decision on this, but Tim Young - are you seriously that naive?

EDEN and sell out Canada in the same sentence?

Voted.

What're a few regions between Bros?

"The consensus is that the average American Citizen is not going to move to Canada to work in Titanium companies"

Of course it is...if they were willing to move, the leverage to take control of one of said regions is gone...WOW, I never saw THAT coming.

Whatever...this is all a joke until we know what is really going to happen anyway and what were capable of.

Lets just keep selling out our regions and hey...maybe we wont have to worry about Nationalism because we wont have a country of our own to begin with!

@ Acacia Mason: So what does this situation do to the rest of Canada's economy?

Land wages are rising and will culminate in Stone and Oil companies (let alone Grain) not being able to compete for labour. Where is all the labour going to come from to satisfy the Titanium market? Such a shift in domestic labour will hurt our economic balance - without a doubt.

This is a question of logic, not passion.

Nobody disputes your patriotism here Mr. Mason.

Well your logic is flawed. The labour will come from abroad when the there are high wages.

Consensus? Who need consensus where there is gold? They will come 'cos there is a pile of gold in Canada to be made.

Voted for Bros helping Bros.

@ Tim Young

So what happens to Oil, Stone, Grain companies who are competing in Land skill market?

What do you say to those GMs?

"Sorry you have to pay 'Titanium Wages' to run your company."?

If you are this confident of immigrant labour being able to satisfy the Titanium demand right off the bat - certainly you have projections to refer to in order for you to arrive at such a conclusion?

Uruguay could have the highest land wages in the world after tax, and there is still no way in hell I'm moving there.

Having 2 titantiam regions will definitely kill the grain industry which so many fought so hard to save. I would only rent to the US though.

I have yet to be convinced that giving away a region is the best way to go. Once V2 arrives and after some time has passed if having both regions is problematic whether due to not enough workers, security or any other reason then at that point having this debate would be worth while.

Right now we do not have all the info required to make the decision and we are taking positions with too many unknowns.

A well thought out argument. The problem you're facing Tim in regards to eCanada going waring on our own is population. We do not have enough people here to put out the kind of firepower that some of our allies can. Not to say that we can't kick ass in our own right, but we're not quite in the same class as the US just yet.

And all the arguments aside, stating that this will happen over your dead body is a little melodramatic don't you think?

@woxan

I agree completely

I see others complain that us giving away our region is unpatriotic, yet we expect others to immigrate to Canada for the high wages?

Do we not expect them to be patriotic?

If Uraguay(for example) paid twice as much as I could earn in Canada I would still not live there. I would want to be involved in Canadian politics, fight in Canadian battles and read Canadian newspapers. It is ignorant to think that other nations citizens do not feel the same about their country

If titanium is in as much demand as we think it will be, and we cannot produce enough to meet the EDEN demand, the price will become so high that the cost of a tank or helicopter might be too much to be used effectively in our battles. When the prices increase so will the wages and If the wages are to high no one will work in manufacturing, then who will produce the tanks and helicopters? New skill 0 workers and some low skill manu workers will start over and will take a higher wage land job and eventually we will lack the ability to convert the titanium into the tanks and helicopters

This is something we may or not not due, but regardless it will always be an "IF" and depending on who is in government the politics of this decision may change many times over

We should decide "IF" we do this, what region will be rented out. Mainly because as a Canadian, if I was to start a diamond/titanium company today, I would want to it to be on the territory that we keep whether it be NWT or Nunavut

So debate aside - which territory do we keep "IF" this goes through?

Yes, this was done when raw sector got closed and the population went up from 5600 to over 6000 and the GDP doubled in a week. Here is one of the thread here:

http://www.erepublik.com/en/forum/topic/154533/are-you-a-land-worker/1" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/forum/topic/[..]er/1

Also, take a look in close congress of what I am trying to push and today's vote on closing the economy. Canada will be the economic powerhouse of eWorld.

Woxan: Canada is not Uruguay. People love Canada and it is an English speaking country so easy to attact workers. 🙂

Come to Quebec and I'll make you a citizen as well. Q5 hospital and blockbusting wages here. Don't miss out the opportunity of a lifetime. 😉

Soulscode: that is the thing. If titanium is as important as it sounds like for V2 the people will flood to Canada for our wages and we will have the population to go warring. But giving our land away means we won't get the expected population increase.

This is an opportunity of an elifetime for Canada to become a super power and the first thing is people want to do is to give the land away? wut?

Rolo: Unless you figure out a way for a baby boom to attract rl Canadian to sign onto eRep than the next best way is to attract in-game population via sky high wages.

If we do rent out one of our provinces, in my mind the one we rent out is obvious. We rent out Nunavut. The US when they declare war with us should first proceed into the Yukon, then into the NWT, then into Nunavut. While the US is in the NWT any smart and sensible business owner would be wise to purchase a business licence for the US at the reduced cost. That is the first advantage to giving them Nunavut.

The second would be strategic. Newfoundland is a border province to Europe (specifically the UK and Ireland). Having the US in the East would provide us with a obvious partner who would be capable of intiating blocking attacks upon the UK or whomever should they decide to invade us. It would also provide a further buffer for hour Titanium mines in the NWT. The west coast would already have protection from Alaska and the US's border states, as Russia or anyone else invading us there would already have to have declared war on the US, leaving them vulnerable as well to blocking attacks. This of course relies upon blocking attacks still being relevant, but with the data we have now it has not been proven wrong yet.

So, business licences for all those currently within NWT and Nunavut, plus a strategic blocker for our East coast. I see no reason why it should be anything other than Nunavut.

@Tim Young

Yeah, after WW3 I moved to Greece for the "sky high wages" and they were, over 1 gold per day....but it didn't last, I was only there for a quick buck then I returned to Canada because that is my home and where my RL identity lies, so was it a baby boom for Greece? for a couple of weeks, I guess so, and when the RW's started in Canada, I returned Home

What does one do with all these High wages anyways...It's not like in RL where I have a wife and kids to feed, mortgages to pay, cars to drive.... Most countries have a living wage that allows one to eat, buy few guns, and take the odd ride on Lana if that's what your into..

The real fun is watching your country grow through your patriotism and through your ideas and Hard work. You insinuating that citizens will jump on Canada's BANDWAGON like they do sports teams at playoff time and that is the solution to our population problems

Not to mention that Canada will be inundated with Citizenship applications and hey, let's face it - we don't have the most discriminating Congressmen. There will be a LOT of suspect applicants that get Canadian citizenship.

V2 is also a great time to infiltrate Canada and Australia if you're a PTO outfit.

Tim: Like Rolo says, they won't all want to fight for us, they're just in it for the money. I think you're banking too much on a population boom and titanium being super important. Sure it's an option, and it might work, I'm not disputing that. But it's also a plan that rests on too many assumptions and guesses at what will happen. With the information we have now, leasing a province to the US is a better long term strategy.

Titanium is just another addition to the 'rock, paper, scissors' family.
Iron will still be needed.

Iron is a MUCH more established and stable resource than Titanium.
I suspect that infantry and artillery will have the upper hand at the outset of V2.

I think that some people are being extraordinarily dramatic about this. To be so cold and wide eyed about Teh Precioussss in the face of our Bros is disappointing to say the least.

Tyler: Sure thing. Let's prevent PTOs by giving our land away. Hey, let's give the whole country away. That way there will be no chance of being PTOed!

And obviously, Canada will never get the workers so might as well give the whole country away to the US since they have the population to work the land. All for a good cause in the name of the alliance. I've seen the light. Let's do this. 🙂

Hold on there crazy sauce, who's talking about renting the whole country here? Those against this always say that, "Why not give it all away!" line.

It's ONE region dude. We WILL NOT be able to defend both.
You may not remember WW3 in Canada that well Mr. Young, but unless you want a repeat of it, you have to realize that we seal our fate by trying to keep both.

Australia will be hard pressed to keep theirs, eSA looks to be unstable for months to come and Russia is Fortressing their high titanium regions, such as FER.

In fact, Russia will have the only reliable Phoenix Titanium.
Of course, Argentina will have to retain control of Limpopo to keep Brazil fed with Titanium...

o/ Brolliance!

Soulcode: It will never be a good strategy to give land away to the US especially in their current state. Do you know how badly the US economy is being run and their state of the economy? Go on the eUS forum and their economics section and see my one man crusade to sort out their economy.

It was only recently there have been changes to their economy. They have a long way to go. It will harm Canada to give our land away and it will harm the alliance because at least Canada can work titanium to maximum capacity but giving it to the USA means wasting the region and giving free gold to the rest of the world. USA is the land of bleeding gold and until they sort their economy out, don't even think about letting them mismanage another high region. They totally messed up generating gold out of Karnataka and are the only country in the world where getting a high iron would not make a difference.

@Tim Young

why do we care if they mis-manage it? As long as the cheque clears at the end of the month for $XXXX amount of gold they will give us in "rent" what do we care? You act as if titanium is a limited resource and that we will some how miss out on opportunity if we allow them to use it until it is gone. It is a limitless resource in erepublik so the choices for Canada are

"X" amount of Canadian workers in titanium companies producing "Y" amount of titanium in 2 regions generate "Z" amount of tax dollars for government

or

same "X" amount of Canadian workers in titanium companies producing same "Y" amount of titanium in 1 region generate same "Z" amount of tax dollars for government + $$$$$ in gold in rental income

I'm sorry, which one is better for Canada?

Kind of like renting out your empty basement that your not using anyways

FREE MONEY!!!!!

Seems to me that it's only fair for us to give them Nunavut (which is by far the best choice because it serves as an eastern buffer, where Alaska serves as a western). I mean we have the bustling economic powerhouse of Delaware, the least we can do for them is give them a region as sparse and underpopulated as Nunavut.

Rolo & Soulcode: Understand how eRep works. Population is the key to everything. It doesn't matter however much you spend or how well run the country is because without the population you can't do anything.

Population is where gold comes from in medals and people spending money. Population is military damage the country can put out. Without population, you can't do nuthink. Everything should be run along the lines of maximising population.

And when it comes the time to conquer other countries, it is par of the course to have other nationalities in the country. You think Spain population are all Spainish? They got a big boost from conquering France and a lot of the French stayed due to high wages there. A large majority of two-clickers don't give damn about this war between the alliances.

And as to your trip to Greece, that is that reason why it is different for Canada because it is an English speaking country. Loadsa people can settle in Canada because you can understand the media and play the rest of the game. It is not just all about high wages and people who speak English can settle here. Even if people were to only come for a while, we still benefit from them fighting in our wars and contributing through taxes and their gold they spend here.

We need more population and not gold so we can fight in wars rather than sending our troops abroad all the time to fight for the US, Spain and Poland. I don't want the point of elife and making money with the only reason being to go abroad to fight for other countries. If that were the case, I'll go and live in their country.

Rolo - It matters if the US mismanage their economy. Canada lose out if we give our region away. This is zero sum game. We lose out because they will increase supply of titanium and less titanium would be needed in Canada. With both regions, the amount we can make from printing money due to increase in trade would be greater than the kind of figures thrown around about how much we can take from renting.

The only other reason to rent to other countries is if they can generate more gold out of the region and will benefit the alliance. This is not the case here. In terms of the alliance, shifting resources from a well managed economy to one of the worse managed economy in the eWorld will make the alliance worse not better.

Not to mention the increase cost of having to deal with two currencies and the potential for RWing. Don't even get me started on the details.

It doesn't make sense for Canada and it certainly doesn't make sense for the alliance.

If you want to help the alliance, spend more time getting a high region for Croatia so they can do a Serbia or help SA out and not transfer wealth between alliance countries that will make the alliance worse.

Get the Amercians to come over to Canada to earn our blockbusting, eye watering, swimming in loadsa money high wages instead. Because if they don't, other people will.

You say we should keep our titanium regions out of patriotism, yet you expect other citizens to abandon their countries and live in Canada for the $$$$.

People will not move simply for $$$, and when that happens expect the following

Canadian alone cannot produce enough titanium to satisfy the EDEN demand

thus, scarce titanium will drive prices up

this will drive wages in the land sector up and draw newbies and other people out of the manufacturing/constructions sector and give us an economic imbalance

scarce titanium will make tanks and helicopters expensive because there will be few of them (Canadian land workers can afford them, but what of our allies and our other sector workers)

expensive tanks and helicopters will mean many Canadians and our allies cannot afford to buy many of them to use in battle

lack of tanks and helicopters will lead to battles lost

lost battles lead to lost territory to PHOENIX

lost territory will eventually extend to the very territory we are discussing falling into PHOENIX's hands

You think if they get it they are gonna give it up easy?

What then?

Actually, if read my post properly I am mainly basing this on finance. And it seems you expect Canadians to abandon our original regions for the $$$.

People will not give up orignial regions simply for $$$.

Canada can produce enough titanium to satisfy the global demand. I'll make sure of that. lol And it is not just satisfy EDEN demand either. Titanium market is a global market. Most company owners don't care which countries they get their raw materials but they just want the cheapest price. EDEN countries can get titanium if they can pay for it.

Your idea that Canada cannot produce enough Titanium is based on nothing. And I'll say again, Titanium is not bought on alliance bases but only on price. I don't know why people seem to think companies in EDEN countries will only buy raw from EDEN countries. o_O

The rest of your post is wrong because you are basing it on a wrong assumption.

Rolo has it right. And I'd really like to hear how you think you can personally make sure that eCanada can satisfy the global demand for Titanium when it goes live.

Also while you are right that people might buy from the cheapest regardless of location, with a high demand, there's high price and less sales 'cause we won't be the cheapest on the market. You're also not taking into account the affect that this will have on the other markets, both retail and job. While your viewpoint is potentially valid, I also find it very narrow and leaving too much to chance.

I would also point out that you seem to be the only one being particularly vociferous against this thought here, so how can you speak for all of eCanada to say that we won't give up an original region?

"You'll make sure of it" - OK, alright then - case closed -no need for further discussion - Tim Young has this on lockdown

on second thought, per your argument

so because we can't produce enough titanium people will buy it on the "global" market

the "global" market consisting of phoenix run regions or regions phoenix will attempt to conquer

thus when titanium is purchased on these "global" (ie Phoenix) markets, the profits, taxes, and wages will go to Phoenix nations and their citizens/soldiers

Think that money will be used to fund a war against us???

great plan....

I think it better that EDEN Nations produce the most possible titanium, thus it's citizens, businesses and countries reap the rewards

PS - I don't expect Canadians to "abandon their original regions", I expect Canadians to "rent out" a region that nobody is living in anyways..

Kind of like my basement...I haven't abandoned it, I have rented it out because I do not use it, the income $$$$ is more important than the loss of space in my house

VOTED VOTED VOTED!!!!!!!

Soulcode - You advertise for workers. Take a look at my newspaper for a few example of how to do it and the link above. People will come when they see how much more the pay is here. When the mini population boom happened a while ago when the pop went up from mid 5000 to over 6000 it didn't happen by chance. I was spamming non stop on the eRep economy forum for workers to come here with Jacob G as well.. non stop spamming. In fact, at the time the wages in Canada should have meant a population of high 5000s instead of over 6000 but due to the spamming, people started to know Canada is a place of mouth watering wages whereas before it was just Greece and Russia. Word of mouth is a great thing as it now means I don't need to spam any more to get people to realise our country is made of money. When people think of high wages, they think of Canada. Check out the eRep general forum sometimes. 🙂

I am not the only one totally against this idea. Take a look on eCan forum if you have the time and look in open door congress. I have received numerous PMs by citizens livid about this idea. I don't think other people need to comment when I am doing such a good job. 🙂

What are you on about Rolo? When raw companies operate here, they are sold to companies in both Phoneix and EDEN countries. You can't stop people from Phoneix countries from buying raw from us. Nor would we want to either.

If they buy from us, then their money goes towards our taxes and our wages and our profits. Getit? They are the ones giving us money not the other way around.

And yeah that is a great plan because we will be using their money to fund war against them.

I also think it is better that EDEN Nations produce the most possible titanium, thus it's citizens, businesses and countries reap the rewards. That will be done by us.

Voted... I'm behind eUS renting a region IF there is broad support from eCanadians.

\o/ BROs!

Hmmm... Laissez Faire has a diamond company and gifting company under our control. after the v2 update, there will be price fluxes, but the prices will go back to normal. Just a week or 2 ago, many gifting companies stocked up on diamonds expecting the v2 update causing the diamond companies to raise their prices by 150%. Now, the diamond prices are going back down and they're back to normal. This will happen to the titanium and weapons. Laissez Faire has already set a standard wage range and a product price range to prevent the flux for affecting the economy. We will probably lose employees, but this will make it so that the prices won't change too much when v2 comes. All that needs to be done after this is for other companies to set a standard salary corrisponding to the other land sector jobs and a price range to prevent too much inflation and deflation.


I would also like to add that Delaware is under control by Canada for resistance war purposes for a long time and this new land swapping sounds beneficial. As WWIII has shown, Canada and USA will fight together when the time comes as we have for may days. This land swap will own strengthen our brolliance and make us a more powerful sway in the world. After this military problem has been solved, all USA needs to do is figure out how to get their citizens to vote more often.

Yes Tim Young - you made my point for me

If We (Canada & EDEN) are unable to MAXIMIZE our titanium production then it is us that will be buying it from them (Phoenix Nations)

Canada has no way of MAXIMIZING its output because regardless on our own we will only produce a finite amount whether we have 1 region or 50

but if WE (Canada and EDEN) are able to produce more titanium, it will be them (Phoenix) buying the raw from us and thus paying OUR companies (or perhaps theirs if their orgs start companies in our regions) but it will be our (Canada and EDEN)citizens that will benefit as they will be paying our wages, and our governments taxes to fund the wars against them

It's not about who buys from who on an individual sale basis, it is about percentages of sale on a global market. We (Canada and EDEN) need to produce as much as possible to ensure at the minimum we have an equal production level thus being economically neutral benefit to phoenix, or produce more than them thus having an economic advantage in production (A net positive being spend globally on our product vs theirs)

The alternative is the net benefit being to them

Tim Young: I'm not sure what arguments you have left, because, from what I've seen, Rolo, TFD, and Soulscode have eliminated any argument you've had. Means I don't have to write up a huge spiel 🙂

Also:
Woxan: Uruguay could have the highest land wages in the world after tax, and there is still no way in hell I'm moving there.

x2