Of Chiefs and Presidents
Jewitt
18 August, 2010, Day 1,002 of the New World
First off, let's cite a few good reads. I recommend everyone read these very thoroughly.
Necros Xiaoban's "Mr. President, What Happened?"
Harrison Richardson's "Why I hate the JCS"
President Krems' "Forward America"
Deificus' "In response to Harrison Richardson"
eUS Forum Thread “Let’s talk about Krems,” Harrison Richardson
The nation seems to be in the middle of a cross roads, first discovered around March of this year, which obviously happened almost six months ago. So for nearly six months we've been sitting on this powder keg, and every other President seems to light the flame to only have it blown out before the spark hits the keg. Some Presidents, as represented in Deificus' article, were very cooperative and oftentimes worked towards their agenda. Others, cited in the same article, were the complete opposite.
First off, let's get some basics out of the way.
1. Presidents who go to the JCS and expect to order these guys around are in for a tough month and usually some anti-JCS banter in the media/forums. We see this in the obvious break downs in communication and what not from the confusion of Sindh during PigInZen's Presidency, all the way to the attack on FER by Choc.
2. Presidents who go to the JCS and accept their position and work with them tend to fare better - as we see by very public and apparent results. Reclaiming Canada from Hungary, conquering all of Asia except Serbian Liaoning, and the success/draw of the UK invasion.
Knowing these two things, let's look at cold facts, that is not an opinion or ideology.
1. The JCS is not publicly elected, and thus not accountable in that sense. They are, however, the earned superiors and the voice of the U.S. Military - which most soldiers do not have the ability to vote in domestic elections. This brings about not only a chain of command, but a sort of camaraderie. This is something the President does not and will not have - especially in their first days.
2. The President is a publicly elected official, which is in essence the voice of the people and, in a way, the final decision with respect to foreign relations and militaristic maneuvers. The JCS, without gaining Presidential wishes, may obtain this ability.
Here is where the problems begin. Presidents, for instance Harrison Richardson, come in usually in a hostile way, or in the previous months have been hostile. I can think of dozens of times that Mr. Richardson has attacked or bashed the military before becoming President for his second term. When he becomes President, one can only guess how the JCS will act.
Now, I do not want to attack Mr. Richardson here, but I have to say he has made many mistakes. One of the most I see apparent is the fact that he has violated OPSEC, or Operational Security. He has posted screen shots from the JCS forum which is reserved for the JCS and (usually) President. I'm sorry, but since when was posting screen shots of the highest level of planning of our nation's security completely acceptable? Even if it was an argument portrayed, the fact remains.
So, we have just outlined the bare facts. This alone means that the President has 100% final decision in all military maneuvers. Even if it means making the JCS angry. I myself know what this is like, as I attacked the United Kingdom completely against JCS approval because I was the President - publicly accountable to uphold what the public elected me to do. However, because of my record and ability to listen to the JCS, we designed strategy and improved the EDEN schematics. Josh Frost would eventually be given the reigns and from that point it's history. Hell, Harrison Richardson himself admitted to ordering, against the JCS's wishes, troops to fight in a battle. So obviously he was not as "out of the loop" and loss of his authority as portrayed.
Oddly, Presidents that seem to have this sort of "work with me" mentality tend to never complain about the JCS. These include the same Deificus outlined - Gaius Julius (whom became CJCS, something unheard of till that point), myself, Josh Frost, Woxan, Bradley Reala. What sets these guys apart?
They recognized that the JCS is more than just a panel of the military's highest ranking officers and tacticians. They are professionals of their field. Just as the President looks to the Secretary of the Treasury on matters of the helicopter industry, or the Secretary of State for advise on the political climate in some random nation, the President must recognize the professional authority of the JCS and the knowledge, know-how, and ability to rally the masses as a powerful asset. Failure to recognize this professional opinion will lead only one way - failure.
Kind of creepy, no wonder some Presidents don’t do too well in their chambers.
There is no coincidence that the Presidents who cooperated and accepted the counsel of the JCS succeeded at great things. Nunavut, Manitoba, Liaoning, Karnataka, South East of England, Limpopo, Heilongjiang. And the Presidents who were terrible in realizing this advisory asset never would be remembered if it were not for their loud mouths and continued activity.
So America, let's look at the individual we are electing. Are they only a good politician and apparent foreign diplomat, or a pretty face? Are they only able to garner the most party support and make some ridiculous claim? Or are they willing to be a smart and involved commander in chief? Are we electing someone who not only deserves the right to represent us, but also someone who has the ability to represent us?
Written By,
-Jewitt
Comments
First DENIED
Second?
Third?
or fourth?
And now for president of Switzerland to spam!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/the-government-day-1000-1489973/1/20
great.
damn jewitt, you havent written in a while
1st page of a Jewitt report... amazing
Voted. Already subbed.
Thanks for your input. I agree with you Jewitt. I'm glad I did not take any sides in that issue.
A detailed description of how to get into JCS:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/civilians-sleep-well-at-night-because-rough-men-protect-them-1411950/1/20
Jewitt can do it! Pretty decent article.
*ranthappy heart*
Jewittmax
hmm
Jewittokmaxx...
Tbh, The way the JCS is picked just angers me, and they are in now professionals of any kind. People have to remember, that even if they are high ranking military officials In RL, which they are not nothing translates into eRep quite so well. In fact, I am willing to bet that except for a few of the JCS members, the majority are teenagers who like the feeling of being in control of something. They refuse to put aside differences with EDEN and continue to flaunt around their giant dangling e-peens in a show of internet superiority...
great article. +1
Are you seriously suggesting PIZ had a hostile attitude to the JCS? I'm trying to stay out of this debate because so far I have not had any trouble with the JCS. I try to work with them and I'm glad that they have been so accomadating. HOWEVER, let's not skip ahead too much here. PIZ and Sihdn are completely different to HR and NXNW and you should know that. Furthermore, you can hardly cite yourself and the three pillars as examples of good JCS and Exec planning, considering you have the square root of nothing to do with the operation other then pushing the buttons. On top of that Frost *constantly* raged about the JCS in the cabinet channels. As I said, I currently have a good working relationship with the JCS and I don't like how I'm somehow being shoe-horned into the position of being at odds with them, I'M NOT. This debate finished a long time ago, the JCS are very capable military strategists and advisors, but that's their role. If there ever comes the day when the CP follows JCS orders (as I know some have done) then I feel something would be very wrong with this country.
I didn't elect them so why should my tax money fund them if they are going to do there own thing and not listen to the president? If they want US tax money, they better be accountable to our elected officials, mainly the president! I don't care how cool they are, or how experienced they are, thats how this shit works! Its called a democracy... This is b.s
@Aamto: WAT
wait wat
I've missed your articles.
BOATED
this won't get trolled AT ALL
that being said, I like this calm level headed approach to the issue.
Voted, and read it, and I miss you.
Jewitt, you seem really out of touch with the reality here, and your historical analysis is pretty terrible.
I do not think that the American military successes of the past can be simply attributed to presidents who agreed with the JCS. Luck, ability of our troops, and coordination with our Allies also played a major roll.
Tbh, this article says: presidents should give the JCS fellatio or they're not going to succeed, which really doesnt sit right with me. The Military should be at the behest of the president, not the other way around.
I'll leave you with a parting thought:
no other successful superpower, or any country as far as I'm aware of, gives complete control of the armed forces to an unelected group of people who are distant from the political reality of the eworld.
IMO a Secretary of Defense who is knowledgeable in military strategy and retains the acting president's trust a much better solution to our problems then leaving military strategy to smokey backrooms.
(inb4peoplecallmeaspy)
( I hate how everything is now a run on paragraph)
Hmm, seems like people are missing the point. Krems, I avoided even mentioning you because in my eyes this issue transverses multiple Presidencies, and I was one of PiZ's closest friends and I am well aware of the issues he may or may not have had. I admit to being distant, and have never denied that, I am simply outlining what I have *seen work*, regardless of the true back door situation. Add to this, if you honestly think that in the Three Pillars I did nothing but click buttons then you truly are unaware of your own history - or won't listen to the JCS when many of them say otherwise. I constantly said in this article, and even bolded the fact, that the President has 100% final authority and say, and simply am stating the JCS is an advisory counsel and should be treated as such, and used as such. Run on paragraphs continuing, we see "of the JCS members, the majority are teenagers who like the feeling of being in control of something. They refuse to put aside differences," Reminds me of many politicians.
as I understand it, the JCS has overtime become much more than an advisory committee. It seems like they've almost become a third governing branch, so we have the legislative, executive and military branches of government. while the president has final say, the JCS can act within all of their power to make the military come to a virtual standstill, preventing the president from doing what he wants. I've heard of presidents having to threaten to cut off military funding to get them to do what the executive branch wants.
It just doesnt seem like we're going in the right direction when stuff like that is resorted too....
Gladdy, I must agree. The JCS should not overstep that simple boundary where the President must, and always must, make the final call. Unless it is obvious (attacking Canada and making war with EDEN overnight, for example), though that is much more difficult to define.
I said except a few
there ARE three branches of government, and the goal is to have each lead by people who can not only manage their own areas but also work well with the others. the increasing air of inter-branch hostility is counter-productive, internationally embarrassing and domestically divisive.
There are not three well defined and well legislated branches of government, period.
there are two well defined branches in the context of this game, and one subgroup that occasionally wield some form of authority in an attempt to be a pusedo third branch of government. the military is at the service of the executive branch, as outlined and defined in the eus constitution.
Many, if not most of the highly active and contributing citizens of the eUS are in the military. If so many are willing to follow the orders of the JCS on a daily basis then I think they should be considered a branch of the government, because in the other two branches citizens only even fleetingly scrutinize the officials around election day
When I was in congress about 5 months ago, the eUS Constitution listed 3 branches of government: Executive, Legislative, and Military. I don't know if that still is true though.
no, they shouldnt. according to the eus constitution they serve at the behest of the executive branch, and are the president's sword, where the state dept is the president's olive branch. it's not a branch of government, it is a weapon
http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/052/812/original/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif
GLaDOS: Welcome to America. Military really is codified as a separate branch of government here.
" as I understand it, the JCS has overtime become much more than an advisory committee. It seems like they've almost become a third governing branch, so we have the legislative, executive and military branches of government. while the president has final say, the JCS can act within all of their power to make the military come to a virtual standstill, preventing the president from doing what he wants. I've heard of presidents having to threaten to cut off military funding to get them to do what the executive branch wants. It just doesnt seem like we're going in the right direction when stuff like that is resorted too...." _______________________________________________
I don't know much about this matter, since I don't care enough to do some research, but this is what I've been hearing about US military vs government for almost a year, ever since Sindh happened. If it were up to me, I'd rebuild that office or whatever you want to call it from scratch and SEPARATE it from military's commanders, so situation where president gets threatened by army disobedience can never happen (again)
Solid points, good summary. One footnote... PiZ came into office looking to get along swell with the JCS, having seen the relationship JF had with them immediately prior, since PiZ was our Sec Technology. That said... PiZ took a lot of advice from his CoS/ChiefAdvisor, HR, and things went a well-known direction. In PiZ's cabinet, the three top folks were PiZ, HR, BR. BR, having seen the PiZ admin, took things the other way and worked well with JCS once he became CP. Just some food for thought... I think the JCS works fine just the way it is, with any reasonable CP.
Also... I was there start to finish with both JF and Woxan, and neither one of them had a problem with the JCS that couldn't be overcome through rational discourse. Heck, that's even after Woxan's first convo with NXNW was about a 2-2.5 hour fight over foreign policy. It took place in a private channel with only 4 of us present... them, me, and Colin. Woxan and NXNW started with diametrically opposed opinions on the direction the eUSA should take, fought it out, reached a middle ground between public opinion (CP) and professional experience (CJCS). They got over that and work great. It's all personality-driven. Rational people can work together easily. Any CP who cannot understand and accept that their electoral promises need to be tempered against the institutional experience of the JCS (reaching a middle ground) really applied for the wrong job to start with. The CP is not a dictator, simply one third of government leadership. :/
"The CP is not a dictator, simply one third of government leadership." ____ Each part of government (in both rl and eR) should be or is overseen by someone and from the looks of it, JCS is self chosen, self supervised and above president (because they control the army and government orgs, most importantly, DoD orders one and IRC military strategy channels). So who is dictator here?
@insightz, To be balanced every time you mention sindh you should mention Uk, France, SA, W Australia, Finland & Israel. That is if you are interested in presenting the whole record. BTW, aside from HLJ that list enumerates every win eden achieved the last 6 months...just saying. 🙂
@Max Mcfarland 2: First off nice to see you, hope you are well.
You state😛 "One footnote... PiZ came into office looking to get along swell with the JCS"
Actually my very first conversation with PiZ was on irc where after a cordial welcome on my part he stated "I OWN YOU PROVE OTHERWISE." When I mentioned the constitution he replied "Well, looks like it is time for a constitutional congress." After I explained what was involved in regard to running the day to day operations of an organization of ~1200 people he turned the reigns over to me. He also went 100% awol for the last week of his term after screwing over the Phillipines--our ally that went 2+ weeks w/o a Q5 hospital due to broken promises on the part of PiZ. Way to treat an essential strategic partner. 🙁
I hate to say it but PiZ came in looking for a fight. I wonder wHo was pulling his stRings.
Hell, I should run for POTUS. \o/
Nice to see an article from you again. Voted
voted
McFarland, though I disagree that the JCS is an independent branch of government (though it does seem to represent the soldiers whom do not have American citizenship and thus, cannot vote in domestic elections) I do agree with your assessment of how the JCS is just fine how it is. It seems to me the issue is the personalities we are electing to the Presidency, and how they seem to ignore the valuable tool that is the JCS. "I am ashamed if I disregard my experts once. I am a fool to never regard them at all." - Franklin Roosevelt, imo one of our greatest IRL. The fools are those who disregard the JCS, which is no different than any other advisory group the President has. The only difference is the President does not appoint them, the soldiers without American citizenship but are tax payers and citizens nonetheless do.
@NXNW First off you completely missed the point, but I'll answer your comment first. Do you honestly take credit for all those accomplishments? All of them were joint EDEN & US effort, you just did your share. You should know by now that in (e)life you'll rarely get a pat on the back for doing the job you're appointed for, but if you mess up, you'll have a sh*tstorm coming your way every time. Also I wouldn't put UK there, seeing how the campaign was a complete waste of gold with no strategic importance and it ended with a draw. Now back to my point: in what universe is it fair for a group of people who don't answer to anybody to blackmail a president with army insubordination if he doesn't comply? Same president who was elected by people who fund vast majority of military expenses. And those same people are responsible for almost almost every US military and diplomatic scandal in the past year, from already mentioned Sindh battle (which holds not just huge gravity cause it was the reason Poland empire in Europe collapsed, but because it was a result of a power play where you intentionally ignored the needs of the alliance because of some minor argument over recent battles). Who took the blame of it? EDEN blamed Americans as whole, even though it was JCS's fault and it didn't take responsibility. Same goes for RA battle when Poland was fighting Slovenian MPPs which were result of Sindh battle. You decided not to send proper help because of that very same power play. TLDR: you're using US military as your personal playground and your ego is more important then US/EDEN's interest
V
insightz, what you don't understand is that the JCS DOES have checks and balances on them. Congress CAN pull funding and the President CAN press buttons regardless. That said, the argument here is really whether the President should cooperate with them or not. In my opinion it is a poor President who refuses to cooperate with the JCS. I relied on my Secretary of State for foreign affairs advice, my Secretary of the Treasury for economic advice, my Secretary of the Interior for domestic advice, and the JCS for military advice. I should no more disregard the advice of the JCS "because I can press the attack button" as I should disregard the advice of my Secretary of State "because I can press the 'propose MPP' button."
As always, Jewitt makes the most sense out of any article I have read thus far. Well done, Jewish Sir... well done.
Game mechanics rightly give the President the final say and the big red button...but the fact is that the game has evolved into titanic alliances battling each other. It's (happily) pure warfare; and any society will militarize in that environment...whether it's this game or in real life. Look at the present United States, and tell me that our society hasn't shifted to worship of the military and a belief in its infallibility. wooo...that was a serious post...where'd that come from?
I think this article confirms my thoughts: America is run by a military junta.
And honestly? It's probably better that way.
.