[TIEP] Another Point of View on Latvian War of Summer 2009
avec
I'm writing this article in response to Visvaldis Bargais' TIEP article, which was published earlier this month in Finland. In it he asked for a Finnish counterpart, an alternate point of view to events of Spring and Summer 2009. I hoped for someone else (world famous ”someone else”) write the article as I was not an eFinnish citizen until July, but I have a fairly good grasp on what lead Finns on attacking Latvia, and what happened during and after the war. I'll try to describe how Finns justified the attack in Latvia. I don't mean this as trolling or anyhow insulting, I'm simply trying to illustrate the Finnish point of view.
Psychological point of view regarding the Latvian strategy of regaining their land
First, allow me to introduce you a little bit of Finnish history. The ”History of eFinland” series has reached Summer 2009, you can read the entire history of eFinland from there, and events regarding Latvian invasion are listed there. Early in the game, Finland was conquered by Norway, and Finns lived under Norwegian rule for months. In Autumn 2008, a massive Finnish baby boom occurred, bringing over one thousand new Finnish players into the game (at that time, over one thousand was much in world scale). Finns quickly took over Norwegian regime, and began negotiations with Norwegians for safe return of Finnish regions. What happened later in Latvia resembled events in Norway, but unlike Latvians, Finns chose a peaceful way of regaining their regions. A diplomatic approach was selected to regain Finnish regions, even though Finns could have simply taken their regions by force and hostile measures, as they controlled Norway with majority. After reaching a consensus, Finns and Norwegians decided on a timetable to return Finnish regions, and in co-operation, Finns and Norwegians together liberated Finnish regions. Finns and Norwegians remained close friends, and even today, Finland and Norway are still allies and brothers in blood.
As I said, the Latvian case resembled Finland's own past, and Finns could clearly see it. They knew how everything was going to end, but to Finns' abhorrence, Latvians were not half as rational nor diplomatic as Finns were with Norwegians. Instead of a calm, peaceful approach, Latvians refused to negotiate, they bashed and insulted Finns continuously, and even threatened Finland with PTO. Not all Latvians were the same, but the tactic to regain Latvian regions was so much different to that which Finns had chosen that it caused disgust in Finnish minds.
Motives for invading Latvia
But, what actually lead Finland attacking Latvia? The historical events are pretty well described here in my own war-time propaganda article, besides the History series. Finland had faced several PTO threats because she opposed PEACE and fought against it, and held two Russian regions in her possession.
Finland does not have a high RM region, which is not good for economy. Lack of high RM puts the country in disadvantage against those with high RM. Via Russian regions, Finland shared a border with Latvia. Latvia has a high grain region, Zemgale. Latvia at the time had less than 30 active players, and the country was in a word, under-developed. Finland, however was an old nation, its economy was stagnating, and populace turning passive in their boredom. Finland needed a war and boost for her economy. So, to take out all the issues, Finland negotiated the return of Russians regions back to Russia in exchange for no more PTO attempts by PEACE. Also, PEACE agreed on Finland taking Latvia without PEACE interfering. No one would have imagined Latvia would gain the baby boom it got after Finland attacked it, so in that sense, combining all the pros and cons considering the gains and losses of both countries, the invasion of Latvia was highly justified. Finland would gain war, a boost to economy, a high grain region and freedom from the constant PTO threat. Latvia's all 30 active players would lose a region they could not have taken full advantage of, not as much as Finland at least.
The rest is history.
Finland declared war, got back-stabbed by PEACE along the way but continued the offensive, conquered Latvian regions and stopped after she had reached her objective. What was so curious about Latvia, was that Latvia had been robbed by PEACE just a month or two before Finland attacked it, PEACE had clearly no feelings for Latvia, but Latvia nonetheless asked for help from PEACE and later even joined it. What followed after PEACE helped Latvia regain Zemgale, was that Latvia had a debt of about 700 G, and it was set in a trade embargo with almost every country in the world via that PEACE training war. Finns could not understand Latvian mindset and why they did all that. Joining PEACE looked like eRepublik version of suffering a Stockholm syndrome, and the way Latvians chose to get their regions back was seen as ill-minded.
Later on Finland refused to sign peace proposal with Latvia simply because, we consider war declarations valuable. Declaring a war costs a lot of gold, but it can easily be closed when wanted. Also Latvia chose to join an enemy alliance, so signing peace with Latvia, and therefore giving Latvians a country where they could import products would have helped an enemy country economy, which is what we did not want. I see no reason to continue hostilities with Latvians, all trolling in my opinion does no good to either side. This might be a game, but there's people on the other side of the screen, I doubt anyone would go out yelling the same insults face to face to people like they shout here in the media.
As I said, I wanted someone else to write this article as I did not live in eFinland during the PTO threats or when the plans to attack Latvia were conceived. I came here after most of it was over, and only witnessed the return of Latgale and Zemgale. Even though this article has wordings which are not very neutral, my view of the events is based on what I have read from forum archives, news from those times and discussions with people. Last month when you came through Estonia to attack Finland it was funny as hell, too bad we couldn't concentrate on you at all because everyone were ordered to fight in Croatia. Maybe in the future we'll have another skirmish 🙂
- Avec
Comments
bla, bla, bla
" massive Latvian baby boom began in July. It was quickly noted in Finland, but it was mostly considered systematical multi-accounting based on discussions read on Latvian forums."
You're kidding right? 😃
Voted of course.
>What happened later in Latvia resembled events in Norway, but unlike Latvians, Finns chose a peaceful way of regaining their regions.
We tried, you rejected and mocked us. The phrase "We are doing you a favor, we an use your region more than you do".
You ignored our peace talks so we had to take drastic measures.
Also, PEACE didn't rob our treasury, ATLANTIS tried, but failed (there was a Canadian TO threat).
The embargos - we couldn't afford to pay for the wargames, but our population needed it, so we agreed to host it. I was the president at that time and the wargames organizer.
Sossu, you're the reason we can't have nice things! :3
"Also, PEACE didn't rob our treasury, ATLANTIS tried, but failed (there was a Canadian TO threat)."
Where where your money then? In Red.Fox's vault? And what I remember about those Canadians, they were few in numbers but you were able to beat them.
Nice to see this kind of articles. Voted.
RA RA RA
@Kurzemes Karalis Kristaps
Don't lie. I know what happened. I was there. You guys said that we are terrorist and you won't negotiate with terrorist. There was nothing we could do. But whatever, I had lot of fun.
"Also Latvia chose to join an enemy alliance, so signing peace with Latvia, and therefore giving Latvians a country where they could import products would have helped an enemy country economy, which is what we did not want."
Ever heard of an embargo option?
Propaganda fail!
Besides, you sued peace with Estonia, which was a part of an enemy alliance at the time. You still can't explain why you refused to sue peace with us. And the reason is very simple - you wanted to keep an open war with Latvia, because you were planning to attack us at a certain point in the future. There are NO other reasons, which could possibly explain your unwillingness to bury the hatchet.
@Nameisis So you are afraid of tiny little eFinland?
@Nameisis, WAR means automatically embargo between countries. So why Finland should make peace with Latvian?
Good article, Voted
RA! RA! RA!
Good point of view, but i don`t agree with your opinion!
Let`s forget the past and make better future..
Voted
Jafarin, you can always propose an embargo against us in your congress if you don't want our grain in your market.
Why should Finland make peace with Latvia? To show that we aren't hostile nations anymore.
"Why should Finland make peace with Latvia? To show that we aren't hostile nations anymore."
Of course we are hostile nations.. You just recently showed that you're still nothing but puppets of PEACE (and ex-nations of PEACE).
But yeah.. you're way better than those Estonians who don't have guts at all!
I loved your diplomacy- we give you back Latgale and keep Zemgale... Did we really should have agreed to that? Waiting for answer.
Quote: Finns and Norwegians decided on a timetable to return Finnish regions -
Lol, ofc in your case negotiations were possible. Norvegians had neither power, neither need to keep your territories.
In our case situation was waaay different.
With eLatvia much weaker in every aspect at that moment, with lots of fins (like that fgt sossu for example) screaming on every corner that they'll keep our land forever(to make it worse - that was official position of your government) there was pretty much nothing to negotiate about.
And whats there not to understand about us turning to PEACE?
Hostile group A takes all your money.
When you have got part of it back, comes hostile group B, takes all your money _AND_ takes away your chances even earn money.
The choice is quite obvious 😉
Simply put - you had exetremely bad timing for your little conquest. After PEACE stole our money almost everyone was 100% pro atlantis. Instead of helping(or at least not interfering for a while), you just made things much worse. Its hard to describe disappointment and anger, when we realized that after being robbed by PEACE we will be robbed by atlantis.
-
P.S. And stop with only 30 active latvians at that time 😃
In fight against TO(and that was quite a bit before your invasion) we got more than 90 votes. Do you realy think anyone from those 2 TO groups would vote for latvians? 😃
Couldn't have said better than Nukastasir just did. There is nothing to add. 🙂
True, even though I can not agree with some of the things stated in the article, it's still neccesseray to try to see the matter from a diffrent point of view.
Shut up revisionist! 🙂
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"Later on Finland refused to sign peace proposal with Latvia simply because, we consider war declarations valuable. Declaring a war costs a lot of gold, but it can easily be closed when wanted."
Šo rindkopu, izrautu no konteksta, vajadzētu underteikeram iemācīties 😃
avec > u're simply fget !!!
Nukastir: I was in the ATLANTIS back then when you were TO:ed and we send all the voluntary voters to back Baltic-countries as we didnt have big TO threats inside the alliance and in the elections before our attack there was under 70 votes and ther was atleast two PEACE to groups still inside of Latvia. Also by active players avec probably ment people who read media, who do something else than click those 2 buttons.
Also your president has stated, that ATLANTIS isnt option and had close talk with PEACE countries.
details, details...........
Umm no, actually there were atleast 60 Latvians who voted. I even had a list :3
"So, to take out all the issues, Finland negotiated the return of Russians regions back to Russia in exchange for no more PTO attempts by PEACE. Also, PEACE agreed on Finland taking Latvia without PEACE interfering." yeah this is what i don`t understand, peace traded us like an item. and then after time they came like mighty heroes in shining armor and now everyone loves fu**ing russia and peace/e😜eace(our government is brainwashed actually) it makes me sick..i think we should let this war rest in the past where it belongs. now is a new day in a new world and we should be friends so we can together kick some asses, right? 🙂 peace ain`t what it used to be and actually peace formed a big mafia. made from imperialistic nations like hungary, russia, indonesia etc., now i can`t say i`m anti-peace cuz there`s no more peace. now all i can say i`m anti-rats!
@Vidvuds Riikste
Labs pārrēcos...
@fins
Cmon we all know that eLatvia could easily conquer eFinland if you didnt have USA as allies... And yeah forget about ever owning zemgale!
This is pure BS. In RL I bet Finns and Latvians would be good friends. Both love Hockey 😃
@Liich
Thats right !!