[The Definitive Investigation] Have I been racist? Who's fault is it?
Rob the Bruce
1. Congress chats have previously always allowed a bit of a meme here and there
2. This congress, Spite suddenly decides that is no longer the case
3. Congressmen doing what congressmen have done for literally years is suddenly completely unacceptable, and a proportion of congress suddenly agrees.
4. Some PCP men made a few jokes, and it was suddenly okay to remove an entire party, even though any previous time that has happened has been highly controversial. Like srsly. They let me run congress unelected the last time a CP did this.
This has been allowed to happen again for 2 reasons:
1. Congress never remembers anything that's ever happened ever and always succeeds in making themselves look like idiots (evidenced by my staple article content for years)
2. This one had the added bonus of accusations of racism. This is a new one for me personally, but apparently has happened to this party before back in 2009. Heck if I know lads, I was like 10 or something then. It's a fine vintage.
Our CP's terms for person removal were articulated as follows:
Ignoring the fact that the CP arbitrarily deciding what congress can and cannot discuss has only caused trouble in the past (see Sir Humph Appleby's last term), let's analyse who's been cut out of the PM.
Us criminals have been sent to congress jail, which cuts us off from our fellow congressmen but keeps us in contact with daddy spite so he can tell us nothing useful. As such, I've got a list of all the heinous offenders, thanks to also being one myself. Allegedly. Here's the list:
So that's... the whole of the PCP congress then. Okay.
By Spite's terms, the following things are banne
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1. Being racist
2. Being sexist
3. Any discussion of social politics
4. Any discussion of 'historical events', which is incredibly vague as history spans all time before the present. I've taken it to mean any real life history.
The list is slightly ridiculous, but that point's been done to death I think. Instead, let's do another point that's been done to death and see if anybody in Congress Jail™ has been falsely convicted.
3 people in jail said nothing at all: Michael Ludgate, Abraxaas and Zaphod the Kinky Psychopath, the latter of whom wasn't even in the PM. As such, they do not fit the criteria.
Suppose I should clear my own name next, here's everything I said, including context:
this PM the context is a bit far away from the point where I said what I said, but it's in reference to various members jumping on the fact that PCP people initially made jokes and thus derailing the thread far further than it ever would've been had they just ignored it and got on with their lives.
In short, I commented on how congress is usually trashy, and got removed for it. I, predictably, did not fit any of Spite's aforementioned rigorous and dumb removal criteria. But yet of course, I'm a terrible human being, right?
What I actually did was criticise congress, who as you may know aren't a race
Out of context criticism of congress that technically isn't a form of policy contribution, so Rorksen should've been removed, right? If I was removed, then yes. He did exactly the same thing. So was he removed?
Nah fam don't be silly lmao. He's still there. We'll get to who else is still included in a moment, there's a little more name clearing to do first.
What did Pannonian Nomad do? It's abhorrent, I tell you.
Literally this, or some variation, for all of his messages. A hypothetical about what we would do if certain eNations that aren't here were added. Arguably one of the first game related PMs sent in that whole thread. But nah, bye mate. Nomad's a criminal now.
What about Roachford, also racist criminal scum?
Right. So far so... normal. He followed this up with various one liners about other parties' activity, a dicussion type which was expressly permitted.
No, I don't know what that big black line is there for either. Something has gone wrong.
Then we have... something about cloning followed up by criticism of Spite's PM management policy:
I believe he has a point there, but whether he had a point or not is almost irrelevant when the later revised conditions for PM removal blatantly weren't applicable to him. So that's another false conviction.
Mad Pauly?
Largely this sort of spiel, with one extra tidbit about Churchill or something, and a little message about a potential eTel Aviv. Certainly nothing racist, which spite himself has conceded already:
>'civilised thread'
>congress
It's as if he's never played the game before
Arguably, if you assume Spite's ever-changing conditions for removal were a correct thing to do
Censored because he genuinely got an FP for it lmao, but insert any two random religious groups into the boxes and it'll mean basically the same.
The thing is though, wayne's PM here is the baitiest bait to ever bait anything. Man coulda reeled in sharks with that if he chucked it in the sea.
And by god did they take it. Here's a sampling of PMs that by spite's definition(s?) would be classed as disruptive, and would've literally never occurred if people just decided to ignore some jokes and get on with their lives.
I could go on but I won't, this is already the longest article I've written in ages.
But there's two main points to come out of this long ass spiel:
1. Every PCP congressman that wasn't wayne didn't say anything racist or discriminatory at all
2. Many disruptive PMs were created by other parties, because they can't spot bait when they see it
But all of PCP were removed, and nobody else.
So either it's a wholly political move with 0 grounding in actually fighting racism or spam, or spite has no self awareness, and pays no attention to what he says. Neither would surprise me, particularly the self awareness part.
"But Rob, who's still in the thread? Please daddy be correct some more, please god I'm begging you" -Possibly somebody real but probably a completely hypothetical human being, 2018
Well, the new thread in theory should be completely spam free, and immensely more productive than any other PM thread to ever exist, due to them all being plagued by the scourge of racist and irrelevant content. They almost certainly can't be exactly what Nomad predicted that they'd be:
Nope, not at all.
I was able to get people from other parties to do 'serious' work for me and give me these PMs, so PCP garbage posting clearly hasn't had the impact TUP players believe it does. Irregardless, now I can do a little comparative piece, and see if what Spite says rings true.
Firstly, the apparent delight of everybody:
Key word here is all. I mean we can start with the fact that my none-PCP sources handed me some screenshots knowing full well I was going to use them for a hit piece. That would imply a slightly different story to begin with. But we'll ignore that for now. Who expressed their happiness?
Well we've got Arrlo and Spite, as you can see.
As well as further proving Pannonian Nomad to be entirely correct, we can note only Chemical Chaos here expressing anything like happiness.
Interestingly, the 'junk proposal' to the MoD was proposed by a TUP member, a Mr PalaceDom, who provided his justification in the old PM so us PCP miscreants could see it.
Garbage troll proposal. Despite this, I can confirm that PalaceDom was never placed in Congres Jail™. Just thought I'd point that out...
Back to people's joyousness:
We'll not count certacito as his problem at least appears to be with out CP rather than the PCP congress, which means 2 people. So far we have... 5. That's five people in the PM out of thirty-three.
Normally I'd also point out that wingfield has a history of not being able to take any jokes in congress, ever, context be damned, but that's not an argument anymore apparently so we shan't.
But wait, there's more:
Oh wait, there's no delight here. An important point from AMD though, King William the 'Great' was also never removed from PMs, despite some... colourful opinions in the previous thread.
Really he should've been removed with the rest of us, but naturally wasn't, because of course he wasn't.
He continues to disrupt the first piece of actual policy discussion sent to either thread (PCP managed to derail a thread that hadn't even put any trains on the rails yet, apparently. Impressive.)
Still in the PM though, of course.
And then that's more or less it for digging up both joy and spammers, in the PM screenshots I received at least. What I've received ends with dougal proving Pannonian right again. Yes, again.
By my reckoning, only one extra important discussion was had that wasn't had in the original PM, namely one on work tax.
Only 5 people expressed anything close to er... overjoyousness? Further evidence of Spite's overexagerration and borderline lying, a point that's again been done to death already in previous articles on this subject.
Before one argues that the discussion on tax would've have been impossible in the old thread, I would like to immediately beg to differ. It's quite easy:
The beauty of online communication is that you literally cannot be interrupted or talked over. Everything you say will be sent and will be seen. Diverting the topic from one thing to another is incredibly easy. The fact is that the new PM only managed to produce one extra proposal, so it's clear that jokes were not a massive detriment to output of proper proposals.
If something is not getting discussed because somebody else is choosing to instead make jokes about magnets or ePalestine, how about instead of attacking them for trying to have a laugh in a sodding game of all things, you ignore them and make your case for whatever you want to have a talk about? It's how congress has worked in this game for literally years, it is not difficult. I have done it for the majority of my 34 terms.
I was able to have a laugh while doing congress PM opening, and over the course of that stint I believe wingfield was the only person who reckoned I'd done a bad job. Almost every PCP president has done it. To a lesser degree, even jamesw did it.
Let me propose something miraculous: The problem isn't PCP, or even spam. It's easy to blame PCP for congress discussions being unproductive, but when the new one came out all the anti-PCP brigade managed to do was prove that the majority of their time is spent using PCP as a scapegoat while doing nothing particularly useful themselves, as more concisely articulated by Pannonian Nomad.
All TUP congressmen particularly have seemingly managed to do is ride the successes of jamesw whilst doing nothing themselves bar calling PCP morally abhorrent and reporting that they voted the way James or Spite has asked them to vote in a proposal that was self evident. There's not exactly a lot for anybody to have a serious discussion about when you've only got two decent ideas guys who always play it safe.
TL
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-Spite doesn't know his own opinions
-The new PM has produced little of use
-You can make jokes at the same time as having proper discussions
-Let people have jokes, and accept that congressional productivity is everybody's fault.
That's all, thanks
-Rob the Bruce
Possibly the longest article I've wrote in more than a year
Bonus pic:
Comments
It's okay to make some jokes while you play games, kids.
But only if you have a lukewarm IQ, apparently.
Despite probably being better educated than some failed wannabe RL politicos round here 😉
Do you think it's acceptable bringing my RL into this Mad Pauly? If so, please feel free to tell us all about your real life.
I ran as a paper candidate in a local election when I was 19. It was great fun. I then graduated and went on to have a successful career. I'm now 30. I'm not sure that "failed wannabe RL politico" describes my career path at all. But if you'll stoop to RL bullying, then I've got nothing more to say.
Tbf he could be referring to me as well
Who's bullying anyone here? You were the one stating that those telling, what were in your opinion, "unfunny jokes" have a "lukewarm IQ". I'm sorry, but your response here only reeks of hypocrisy.
Yeh, posting stuff about throwing gays off buildings is a rather unfunny "joke" (assuming it was a joke).
Posting my RL stuff is not funny, it's just creepy and stalkerish.
Wait a minute. Where did I bring your real life into this? Where did I make a joke about throwing gays off buildings? If you're going to respond to me, at least provide evidence that I did something personally toward you. Otherwise you just make yourself look like an arrogant, pompous idiot.
Furthermore, you say that posting "your RL stuff" is "creepy and stalkerish" yet in your previous response make a request for information about my real life if I think it's acceptable to bring yours into the conversation. Not that I was addressing your RL anyway, but if the cap fits...
Oh really, you weren't making reference to the exact comment that Goku made and you replied to on my last article that mentioned I had ran for election and lost in 2007? Really? At least try and make your excuses believable.
I don't give a damn about your RL. I was just saying think about how you'd feel if we were attacking you based on what you did when you were 19... can you get any more creepy?
I'm not being creepy, or try to bully anyone. If you noticed the smiley at the end of my original comment, it was meant tongue in cheek. Furthermore, as AMD noticed, it could have referred to him, but he at least has a skin thick enough to take it.
Effectively calling people moronic for a bit of banter, however, is pretty offensive.
Wow, that 2007 election result must have really hurt...
Basically I made a thread to pass information to Congress and people decided posting about Jew Muslim death matches was appropriate. I split those who do that, and those who find it amusing, into another thread. Since then all has been peaceful. Mission accomplished. End of story.
Congressional communications have never been about just having a one way channel for you to pass information down the chain. Perhaps put your ego aside for once and acknowledge that congress isn't just there to serve your specific needs.
So, Spite, if they would add ePalestine, would you support them or eIsrael?
Errrr "I split those who do that", only one person posted about the thing you are mentioning in your comment...
Using the plural term "people" is inaccurate because, as pointed out in the article, it was only one person posting about jew/muslim death matches, and I don't remember anyone expressing amusement at that post. You're being purposefully dishonest by misrepresenting the issue so that it better justifies your actions when in fact that you kicked out people you did not like despite the fact that they followed the rules you set, and kept the people you didn't have a problem with, despite them breaking the said rules.
As far as "mission accomplished" goes, as UKs Finest pointed out in the other thread, this is just a temporary win. In the long term you will lose activity at a faster rate than usual this way. I imagine you will deflect just as hard then as you do now.
really surreal seeing the phrase "jew/muslim death matches" in a serious written argument tbh
Hey, I just chuck ideas out there and see where they end up, Roachfords excellent idea of cloning historically figures and having them fistfight to the death would never have been aired had I not paved the way for him. I think even 'recreating them digitally' has legs, seeing as I doubt we could clone them. Think of it has a 'Epic Rap Battles' but with more broken noses and busted teeth...
I'm but a simple pioneer...
If we're thinking digital, there used to be an animated show called "celebrity death match" that did p much the same thing, only with celebrities. The animation was clay-based and p over the top, so unfortunately the end result didn't really feel like it was portraying an actual celebrity, just a clay figure.
Everyone from a certain age remembers MTVs Celebrity Death Match... The first lot of episodes were awesome, then it went shite.
Unless you are willing to throw billions into clone research, we are gonna have to lower our sights. Could always use midgets dressed up as these historical figures, everyone loves a dwarf!
Like I mentioned in the original post, it was only a wish and I know the tech for that won't come into existence any time soon.
Still though, while I obviously don't have the money for it, I do pay taxes and billions ain't much for governments. All they'd need to do is cut off funding to a few welfare leeches here and there, and we got ourselves quality 21st century entertainment!
well done, Also zaphod is in the non spam thread so not all of your PCP got removed.
I know, I have a list. It barely changes the point so why make reference to it? He wasn't referenced in the CP update either.
because it was incorrect, was pointing it out to help you improve the article.
RACIST!
RACIST!
If you wanna talk about racism Dougal4chaos used to call me a “raghead lover” quite often
That is sad 🙁
racist language and saying it as if it was a bad thing “I won’t support a raghead lover like AMD for CP” was the context I believe
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I suppose Keers will have to kick out Dougal out of the civilized mongress pm now, what with Dougal being a racist and all.
Context is important here. Context is what matters.
Aaron, if they would add ePalestine, would you support them or eIsrael?
I’d have to see the argument both sides make
fuck off aaron
as always, TUP president terms are an endless string of rows, political correctness supremacism, and basically an extrem disrespect for any other ideas, opinions or preferences. Such terms are divisive and elitists.
First off, the whole contingent shouldn't have been banned from the congress thread. Don't know if I've seen all that was written so maybe one or two of them should have been, it's hard to tell from the bits quoted here and in Wayne's article, but certainly not the whole lot. Individuals should be judged on their own actions, not the actions of other people who share membership of a common group.
That said, you walk into a pub and shout provocative comments long enough, eventually someone's going to punch you in the face. You can cry about your rights being infringed afterwards if you want, maybe even get the person who punched you arrested, but at some point you take the consequences of not wanting to conform with other people's concept of acceptable behaviour.
We take our lashes and we punch back. I see no problem.
#FREETHEPCPEIGHT
Tbh, I don't even want to be back in a group message with Spite...
That's not the point...
Yeah, but I imagine that would be his "peace offer in the future, "I will return you to the Congress messages but you bla bla bla...". The problem is much deeper...
Oh the line in the sand has been drawn, my friend...
Hey fellas!
Maybe I should pop over for a bit. Your congress is way more fun than ours. I am lower income, white male American from rural area so I'm automatically racist, white supremacist, homophobe, politically incorrect hater. Maybe I can lower the bar so your CP won't be so persnickity. Then I could return to Canada refreshed.
Racist
Of course I am, at least if you use the term loosely. I prefer the company of those I'm familiar with. I'm so evil that there are white folks I won't hang out with. 😃
It's my opinion that if people are honest they will tend to be drawn to those with similar likes, desires and experiance. The catch is wnen we exclude those that don't fit our mold.
A funny thought: My racial history is that my Mother's familly is Polish, my Father's was predominately Welsh. If you consider, my natural "racism" would be to hate Germans. All three are considered white races. (BTW, I don't hate anyone. Can't stand a few, but that's personal preference.)
We've already been accused of all of those things so I don't think you'll lower the bar that much more, but we'll gladly welcome another kindred spirit anyway.
Just say the word dill, I got a pass waiting.
I could be tempted old friend. Just too damn lazy.
Could always come have a summer holiday, recharge them batteries.
After consideration I'll take you up on the offer. 🙂