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DISCLAIMER:

i'm not AFA sympathizers, just LOGIC sympathizers. and i cannot believe i should write this disclaimer every f*cking time i wrote an article. i mean, i really want to write something that support our government, but i honestly cannot fine anything worth supporting.

sorry.

I think the true essence of being an American is being able to question those in charge. i salute your courage o7

I too question the reason of the reduction of bonuses it was a good idea we tried it and it doesn't work.

So I see no reason to continue with it.

I'm disappointed you don't understand the difference between logic and rhetoric. Your article is the latter.

I'm sorry I didn't give you a real war. I'm fine being unpopular because the numbers speak for themselves. People don't enjoy coming here when we have no bonuses. The AFA approve less and less people every month. Will having no bonuses stop them? Maybe not, but it delays them long enough for us to try.

Next time, become informed instead of hurling hate. Thank you.

I appreciate your thoughts and will consider them. Your article was well written and made great points.

I do ask that, if nothing else, please don't give up on the rest of us Americans. Change will not be super fast as we have issues to contend with...like the AFA...but I believe that it can happen, and it can happen the right way.

If all honest players give up hope, we will never win change. Don't leave me!

^ stop bringing up afa when someone questions you :/

Teh burned

yes, the number speak for themselves Mr. President. i look at the same number as you and i found that we lose 400 active players while AFA hold firm. you say we'll delay them long enough, but how long is too long? serbs still hang around New Zealand, and their bonus always worst than USA. for all i know, we could try this thing FOREVER and AFA will still hold firm.

i don't hate you. i merely call things as i see them. and from few e-American that i have regular contact with, most of them....

.... are share my sentiments. or are we no longer allowed to question the government?

and about you accuse me of being uninformed? well, in which part actually? i use DHS report to back up my argument, and even 8 years old can see those numbers. if there are "other numbers" to show us that your "lose our bonus" policy are working, please release them. otherwise, we the people of the e-United States will have to keep to what we currently understand, which is: YOU FAIL

Alright, let's do a little bit of 'logic checking' here,

1) "The people were happy that we will, once again, work collectively to send a clear warning to all our adversaries; you mess with eUSA at your own peril!"
Here's how war actually works. First off, we're not sending any message like that by invading Mexico, a country that poses literally 0 threat to the united states. Secondly, by supporting our allies, we present a clear image that if we're attacked, we have friends who will aid us.

2) "mounting opposition--not only from AFA members but from a lot of historically patriotic e-American players"
First off, name any historically patriotic Americans who have joined AFA. Even dissenters to the current regime don't join them, because their fully aware of their PTO intentions.

3) "Loss of 400 votes"
I don't know what you're talking about. Check the Presidential Elections, the only vote total that goes down substantially is the AFA one.

4) "But this is not what the people ask for! We want our bonus back."
I love it when people pull this card. Acting as if they speak for the entirety of the eAmerican population simply because they hold some sort of opinion. If you want to hold a referendum about it, go ahead, but take out all of the AFA and Eden votes before you count them up.

5) "RL New Zealanders will already have their country back by now. But do they?"
Here is what you fundamentally do not understand. New Zealand requires like, 100 or so PTO'ers to have a coherent PTO. That can be done with a handful of supporters, and some multis. The USA requires literally THOUSANDS. You can't get that unless you incentivize people on your side to come here, with, oh I don't know, maybe 100/100 bonuses. Fact is, AFA recruitment has gone down, and their Presidentials are too.

6) "same fail and destructive policy who could potentially last FOREVER and alienating more and more people to AFA side every day"
If more people were going to the AFA every day, then their showing in elections would also be doing better. However, a simple glance at the October v November elections will show you otherwise.
Also, I'm curious. For someone who's only two months old ingame, you sure know a lot about the New Zealand PTO which took place...over a year ago? Interesting.

As someone who competes against the AFA every day for recruits, I can tell you they get their share of new players. Whether they stay once they gain some knowledge of what the AFA represents, I can't say. I don't have the advantage of a bird's eye view of the numbers, I can only attest to what I see on the ground.

@Haselrig: Firstly, many of those people are likely multis to begin with. Secondly, they rarely end up staying in the party, simply due to the fact that it's difficult to keep people isolated from information these days. Considering the fact that the metagame is overwhelming anti-AFA, once someone gets to that part, they're exposed to the real image of the AFA. The AFA's PTO nature is as obvious as all of their citizenship approvals, all you need to do is get people to look at the evidence.

I'm good without bonuses. If elected as POTUS, I plan on continuing them as is for the foreseeable future. If Ajay would like to do us a favor and gtfo of our country with his Serbo-Hungarian masters, bonuses will return. This plan is working and although I did not support it at first, I am fully behind it now.

Rhetoric is bad,. mmkay?

my friend Civil Anarchy, i'm not a military type, so i actually spent most of my time here to read newspaper as long as i can understand the language they're written. THAT'S WHY I KNOW ABOUT NEW ZEALAND PTO!

and btw, could you please stop to accuse every people who oppose the Elites "lose our bonuses" policy as the people from "the other side"? that's a dick move, in case you haven't notice.

That's interesting, considering New Zealand's media is actually in Serbian. And if your only source is media, then I doubt you know anything about what they did to get rid of the PTO'ers.

Thanks for dodging literally all of my arguments. It's very validating.
I didn't accuse you of being on the other side. I showed you why you were wrong on every single point you made in this article. If you don't want to be criticized, don't make arguments publicly.

Like a said, I can only report what I see. I follow the new players pretty closely. They fall off my radar once I see they've chosen the AFA. It's entirely possible that they change parties later or are multies, but I can't recall ever seeing any of them again outside of the AFA. Either in my MU or my party. What that may mean in a larger context is beyond my pay grade.

Dude , you are my hero. 0/

perhaps i haven't make it clear. in no way i'm supportive of AFA. but if the government continually let this matter go as it is without addressing them (or addressing them MORE), people will lose faith in our government. by writing this article, i'm actually trying to force the government to address this issue, to release more numbers, and--if their policy do, in fact, failing to do us any good--to be gentlemen about it and change course!

every government need a healthy public discourse.

civil anarchy, i love healthy public discourse. and btw, i know about NZ PTO from Australian papers, wrote by some dude who use mcdonalds icon as his avatar. i can look it up now, i'll get back at you soon.

That's not what your article is doing. If you're asking for numbers, ask for them. This article doesn't 'question' the policies, it makes sweeping generalizations that they're not working. For example;
"DHS throw in this "report" as their so-called "proof""
"AFA are actually hold firm while we're loosing around 400 votes"
" continuing the same fail and destructive policy who could potentially last FOREVER and alienating more and more people to AFA side every day"

And your article is actually asking for more numbers, why are you taking a DHS report giving you numbers, and practically calling it bullshit?
It's, frankly, obvious that this article isn't supposed to be promoting public discourse. Articles such as that have entirely different tones. This is an article where you're trying to make a point, and its one being made badly at that.

V & S

my news source for NZ PTO, and after i read this, i ask around.

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/australia-these-are-the-cold-hard-facts--1881794/1/20

it's easy to know this kind of thing.

civil anarchy, i understand you didn't like my article. about the tone, lets just say that i have a flair for the dramatic. as for your "arguments" where you claim that you've successfully prove my mistake in every turn, well, that's your opinion. i already state my opinion in my article, so, it's no use for me to reiterate them on the comment section. finally, it's the people who decide who is right and who's wrong.

i thank you, my friend, to spent some of your time for commenting. i believe we've just done a great job to make more people understand the reason behind all of this. i, however, still not convinced on the merit of "lose our bonuses" policy, but again, finally it's the people who have a say in this matter, aren't they? which is why i suggesting a referendum, if that's possible.

btw, that 400 vote we lost is from figure on Sept-Oct congressional election. sorry, i'm noobs. but as far as i can tell from my understanding of game mech, to launch a successful PTO, the most important thing is to hold congressional majority. after all, it's the congress who pass all the bill. which is why, i only consider congressional votes from DHS report.

but let's just see. if AFA lose a lot more votes in this congressional election, we might have hope.

but if instead, we're the one who lose vote, then, the government might have to come to terms with bitter realization that their "lose our bonuses" policy are not working.

Ok let me say some stuff on this... for one I was in the AFA during the CP elections they weren't really pushing to get him elected like they where with Hanibal LA so the 400 less votes doesn't mean anything.

But when you look at the parties numbers
1 American Freedom Alliance 797
2 American Military Party 625
3 Federalist Party 505
4 United States Workers Party 472
5 We The People 292

I seem to remember the AMP being almost 1000... it isn't now. The USWP was not that low either.

Its looks like we are the ones who lost people... when I added up our 4 parties it equals 1894 people
They are 797 members times that by 2 and it equals 1594... we are only 300 people more then them x2.

Somehow I think we lost members not them.

Civil Anachy you tried it and I really like it! but when something doesn't work that hurts people. I say its best to drop it.

Some people may say I'm just selfish and want bonuses to help myself, well that is 100% untrue I give stuff away.

I think we have 2 choices... either drop it to help the newbies.

Or we NEED to reach out to newbies I mean it! We have to contact them, more then just writing a newspaper and a CP greet. We need to pm them and maybe even send them stuff if they respond and we are fairly sure they aren't multi's.

Because if we don't we are going to lose members on our side and everything is wasted.

We can do the same thing even if we drop it.

To my knowledge we aren't doing much about newbies, maybe stuff going on in the back round.
But I'm sure they will either need a lot more help or we need a new program designed to help as many newbies as we can reach.

lol

Alleyrat, you're not looking at all of the factors here.
Look at how many Citizenship requests the AFA is approving, just this month alone. There are easily 80-100 cits approved by them, and yet, they've gained literally nothing. When we had 100/100, not only were they growing, but they were growing exponentially. At least in this circumstance they've been substantially stalled.
As for the AMP, they weren't 1k when we started. The AMP, out of all the parties, lost the most.

This is because the AMP was the place to be for all of the Eden commune holders and other citizens of that nature who came over. The JCSF was full of them. The AMP numbers dropped so much because of that, but the rest of the parties, specifically USWP and Feds, have remained in the same numbers since the drop in bonuses. There were some initial losses, but the fact is, the only thing that stopped the AFA's growth was the bonus plan, and giving that back, even for a month, could ruin that.

to follow up, this is my next article:

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-lose-our-bonus-policy-afa-loss-or-ours--2164573/1/20

we are losing votes while AFA hold firm. to quote President Cerb, "number speak for themselves". so, enough said!

Sorry Civil,
I need to correct you on something:
"Check the Presidential Elections, the only vote total that goes down substantially is the AFA one. "

This is because in September, Henry Pfieffer was running for president by being nominated by a highly criticized process, and he isn't very well liked by many active players, so AFA pulled in over 40% as a protest vote. In October AFA's vote totals returned to a "normal" level.

Civil:
"Fact is, AFA recruitment has gone down, and their Presidentials are too."

Again, no. Since September, AFA's party membership has steadily increased which corresponds to a steady increase in their representation in Congress, meanwhile Unity party membership has declined steadily over the past few months.

I go over the numbers in my article. You and others might be wise to subscribe if you want to "save" the eUS: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/afa-039-s-got-game--2164488/1/2

Sorry, I meant to say that Henry Pfieffer ran in October instead of September.

I'm relatively new, and I joined the AFA because of all the hate they were getting. Not only were they getting called PTOs, but the other T4 parties were ganging up on them. I hate bullying, so when I saw AFA getting quadrupal teamed I decided to support them, and I like that they don't mind what your heritage is, because we are ALL americans, just like the real america, The Great American Melting Pot.