Upsetting the Balance of Power
Natster
I really think the opposition I received was a mere protectionism act.
I have meted my proposal down a bit from my prior article and had decided to focus on just one proposal. The initial proposal was too much of the elephant apparently.
Anyways, the main reason the initial proposal was rejected was because a lot of the senate believed that the changes I was proposing was too drastic and would negatively impact the economy. They were about revenues.
Some of the arguments presented were reasonable, and some were outlandish. I would like to thank Thedillpickl for dialoguing with me, even though I tend to be stubborn.
I would also like to thank Oinyo for his support of my proposal.
So, I modified in our forums the proposal. I elected just to go for the part of raising the import tax. This would mean raising it from 1% - 3%.
A modest increase to be sure, and still competitive with other nations.
So, to prove a point. I will break down how import taxes work.
I will use a q7 @ $5 as reference point for my calculations (I know they sell for more, but am making math easy).
I have the ability to sell my tanks on 3 markets right now.
They are : Ireland, USA, and Canada
FIRST ECanada
Canadian Tax Rates (Scroll to the bottom after clicking this link)
We have a 1% VAT
If I sell on Canadian Market, I pay 0.0495 CAD or .99%
I love erep calculations, but that's what it says when you go to sell an item on the market. If you have a q7, go to where you would sell it in your inventory and the tax paid shows below your price/unit field.
SECOND EIreland
Ireland Tax Rates (Scroll to the bottom after clicking this link)
Work Tax 1%
Import Tax 45%
VAT TAX 3%
Next, if I sell on the Irish Market, I pay $1.6216 per tank or 32.43%
There must be some cap in play.
THIRD EUSA
USA Tax Rates (Scroll to the bottom after clicking this link)
Weapons Tax is as follows:
Work Tax 12%
Import Tax 1%
VAT TAX 5%
If I sell on the EUSA market, I pay $0.2830 per tank or 5.66%
As we can see, taxes don't stack like we think. There's a game engine flaw.
Now to reveal the protectionism in play -- Looking at current lowest sellers.
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/1978589 - Canuck
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/1296120 - ROLO T. - Citizen of Greece?
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/5792399 - A Canuck
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/2289011 - A Russian
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/5531292 - an American
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/1534660 - Serbian
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/1447347 - Cannuck
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/1915519 - Polish
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/4779316 - another Cannuck
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/1219023 - Another Cannuck
Canadian Market Price : $5.40 (q7 Tank)
Here are the countries VAT Taxes that are currently importing:
Greece - VAT 2% - Current Market Price : $5.68
Russia - VAT 2% - Current Market Price : $5.46
Poland - VAT 1% - Current Market Price : $5.47
Serbia - VAT 3% - Current Market Price : $5.63
Price Differential
Greece - 0.28 cents or 5.6%
Russia - 0.06 cents or 1.2%
Poland - 0.07 cents or 1.4%
Serbia - 0.23 cents or 4.6%
A Raise to 3% VAT would only eliminate with our current economy Russia an Poland as competitors (This only 2 spots out of 10 on our market). This would only move our overall price up by a penny or 2. (5.41 - 5.42). While also keeping us at or near the lowest tank price overall (for people who buy tanks).
Now, we can be strategic with our CO's.
DIV 1 fighters, sorry we have to cut you out. It's better for you to get to div 2 just through working and training.
25,000 dam should be the target @ 10 = 250,000 per q7 tank.
A q7 tank costs 5.50 (keeping math easy again).
Our co's are set at 1M or for this calculation 4 tanks.
So, anyone with a q7 damage can make a bit of money from just buying tanks. if their damage is at least 25,000 on one hit. You can get 10 hits with a single q7 tank or 250k damage. 4 tanks will give you 1 million damage.
5.50*4 = $22 would be your cost for $25 CO.
That should be the target CO. Make it $25, and a lot of Cannucks can be happy.
I'm with some that going $40-50 is wasteful (my slaps can buy a q7 tank at that rate).
Especially, because I can drop 2.5 million damage in one hit if I wanted. Yep, that's right.
So now, that's 100cc's yippee! for a cool 2.5. Or I can use 12 q7 tanks for the same amount.
Anywho, I try to buy my tanks strictly from Canadians when I can. Most of the time, I'm communing them away. I want the people who need to sell them make money and as much as they can.
I was going to do another article that focuses on TAXES, but that will have to wait for now.
We could always do it the Mexican way....
NOT!
On a closing note : Let me do a revenue break down of some of the countries I have mentioned in this article.
Mexico -
1,385 active citizens.
Average revenue : 3780
Revenue per citizen : 2.73
Greece
2733 active citizens
Average Revenue : 64368
Revenue Per Citizen : 23.55
Russia
2032 active Citizens
Average Revenue : 9539
Revenue Per Citizen : 7.95
Poland
5550 Active Citizens
Average Revenue : 975102
Revenue Per Citizen : 175.69
-- Interesting note here, their tax rate is within the lines that I had proposed. However, their minimum is higher.
So, at the end of it all, even though my import tax will get voted down, I will do another proposal that will challenge all who opposed it saying it would cost us revenue. If you are really about revenues, than after all this, I think I clearly demonstrate us approving these three arguments:
1) Raise Minimum wage to $3
2) Lower Work Tax to 4%
3) Raise Housing VAT to 2%
How this will impact:
5% of 33.92 (average wage) currently gives us $1.696 per work
4% of 33.92 (average wage) would gives us $1.36 per work
All Commune workers would move from $1 to $3
Current Work Tax would have them may .05 @ $1 or .15 @ $3
Proposed Work Tax Would give reduce this to .12 @ $3 (still over double the revenue per work)
Our average wage would get bumped up a bit. So these numbers are going to get skewed upwards.
The housing VAT would help offset losses.
$263.40 rough price estimate for you. (q1 homes) Psst, for buyers out there at a price of $264, all you have to do is make $38 per day to break even (and take a little bit of profit). q2 + q3 have to be done differently to be profitable, but q3 barely hits my quadrant. Anything above that, as far as I can tell is a gregarious waste of money.
1 % = 2.634 per home
2 % = 5.268 per home
So, I could see these senators who opposed my previous proposal of not seeing the increase of revenue to our countries coffers, here's a clear strategy. I can see them voting down proposal number 2, but definitely not Proposal number 1, and maybe proposal #3, because of this even market. People are interesting, and even in a zero sum economy, there's always an imbalance. It's how you play it that makes you rich.
Anyways, I will restate, and will allow until monday for debate for bringing this to vote again.
1) Raise Minimum wage to $3
2) Lower Work Tax to 4%
3) Raise Housing VAT to 2%
Each one is a separate proposal, and I see the first one getting rejected by some commune leaders, but ultimately, Co's can turn this into a profitable venture for all.
Stay Cannuckian.
Comments
to drunk to read all that. glad I'm not in congress
Thanks for the mention!
Yes I can be stubborn myself.
I'm interested in your take on the CO. After the election (no matter who wins) we should talk about that.
"Yes I can be stubborn myself."
Whaaaaaaat? Noooooo.....
no matter who wins, then why not talk now?
Because I'm a little busy at the moment and not feeling the need to put up any CO's currently. That doesn't mean I'm not wanting to understand what he's saying.
On the other hand, we have been PM'ing to discuss tax changes proposed as the discussion is currently going on in Congress so that is currently relevant.
Solid demonstration and informative.
Thanks for the numbers breakdown.
However I want to point out that I believe Poland's higher revenues are due to WT. Historically they've had more bonuses and therefore better job offers. So people will travel to take their jobs, hence the apparent higher revenue stream per capita. It's not VAT or import related.
When one works for another country, the revenue of worker tax comes here.
In part you are right about Polands taxes, but i'm not saying we can generate on par with them. Just saying we have room for improvement in terms of generating more money.
Are we sure about that? Working abroad still brings the tax dollars home? Genuine question, I just assumed it went to where the job was based.
Alias, you are right. WT does go the the country that your employer is in.
Amazing, and I imagine very time consuming, work Natster. Thank you for all your efforts to make our country financially stronger.
Lots of solid information here, again though I am wondering, do you want more tax revenue coming in, or less. I see lots of tinkering with taxes, just not sure what the goal is. And please don't give a generic "To strengthen our economy"
I want to bring a bit more revenues to the Canadian economy. Plus, if a person is smart with our org, a couple hundred cc's per day could be feasible playing the market. Co's can be out attractive than an alliance, and I believe there's a balancing act there. The extra revenue would help mitigate wipe preventions and allow for strategic gains that we would be able to hold for periods of time.
Raising the minimum wage hurts commune owners. We don't have many of those in eCan, and if we have to raise the min wage to $3, we'll have zero.
ROLO T. - Citizen of Greece? Canadian super-patriot summering abroad.
Running one just fine. And can run one at $5 per day. It's not hard.
http://youtu.be/0Ks2OApRDnM?list=PLwwS70xlUrwsshFTbWil_B9SihIvz7hRZ
I will be honest, VAT and Import tax revenue is based on volume. Each precentage point we raise either of those taxes has the potential to decrease that volume. Domestic producers pay 1% tax to the government foreign producers pay 2%. I know you want to raise revenue butthe work tax is the only viable source of income. I know we all hate paying it, but without it we have no funds for COs and MPPs. I would say 90% plus of our income is derived from the work tax. If we tinker with the others we will see only negative results. If you want to raise revenue the only real means is raising the work tax and I think it's probably as high as people are comfortable paying.
Raising min wage increases revenue with/without tax adjustment. My numbers aren't earth shattering, but Canada would see a net increase in tax revenue with my proposal. Right now, we see a revenue of 90cc per citizen. With my proposal, we would see a net increase of around $2 conservatively.this would add $1554 per day to our. Coffers. This will allow us to buy 40million damage based on my co strategy. That's enough to add a couple of regions under our belt, and even perma-occupy some. Which if done right, would help or bottom line even more.
Ultimately, I look forward to an article where someone defends where our current economy is, and why it doesn't need changing. I can tell yo a bunch of players want to keep the status quo and put this statement above forward. I put a lot of wrok into this, and I'm sorry, show me the numbers, and I'll believe you. The adjustment I propose is small, but worthwhile.
"As we can see, taxes don't stack like we think. There's a game engine flaw."
__________________
You are mistaken. The tax levied is precisely as advertised. Your calculation is flawed.
When I go to the store to buy my pants I look at the ticket price: 100 dollars. I know there is 20% sales tax so when I get to the counter the invoice/counter price is 120 dollars. I have paid the ticket price plus tax of 20% of the ticket price. The tax is not 20% of the counter price 'cause that would be tax on tax. Using your figures now, if I pay 5 dollars for a tank which has had 48 percent tax applied to the ticket price (your Irish example) the tax load is $5/1.48😳3.378 and the seller retains the balance of $1.162. And that is exactly what you report. You have just calculated the "percentage" incorrectly by taking a percentage of the wrong number. Agreed, however, that I should stop buying $100 pants.
"All Commune workers would move from $1 to $3" -- Unlikely. More likely is all communes located here would shut down and workers would seek market jobs... the smart ones will work outside of eCanada. I imagine that shutting down any remaining communes will reduce the number of tanks available to some players. Alternatively, existing commune holders will move to high bonus countries to continue production and supply.
Communes aren't the thing they use to be in eRep but they may still be a relevant structural feature of eCanada so caution is required.
It would be best to consider three features of the eRep economy at this point. First, changes in tax rate do not produce mathematically equivalent changes in revenue. Tax changes motivate structural change and behavioral change. Second, producers in high bonus jurisdictions have enormous competitive advantage. Finally, rock bottom raw prices mean there is no real money to be made anywhere.
I'm misunderstood. But it is the way I wrote that article. However, you had the numbers mixed up. In the senate, I have been told that the taxes stack. As in add together. But, 48% of $5 = 2.40 paid in tax. This is the argument I was fighting against. Your calculation is almost right. The tax paid is actually 1.162. I get this number from the game itself.
1-3 won't hurt communes that much. Trust me, I run one, and mathematically speaking, I can afford up to $5 of a min. I would have to change the way that I pay them, but I could still do it.
Communes just need a different philosophy. That is all.
Lastly, rock bottom raw is exactly how I make my money. I have lots
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I like those numbers thank you
http://youtu.be/0Ks2OApRDnM?list=PLwwS70xlUrwsshFTbWil_B9SihIvz7hRZ
A link to show my layout
I will ammend the proposal to an increase to $2 instead of 3, and I will waive the lowering of our tax