Quo vadis PigInZen?
Romper
Dear Americans (citizens of eUSA),
In an attempt to understand PiZ and his undying desire to weaken EDEN and alienate eUSA from its allies, I had to examine all his articles from his day one in the New World.
That was NOT an easy task as he likes to write long articles with loads of real life anecdotes. I realized that he "evolved" the same way any other player in this game did. From idealist to militarist in few months. His thoughts on the subject:
"Shortly after starting I wondered what was up with this new world. Why were there no global organizations like the United Nations? What were the reasons for the deathgrip of competing alliances on the world's nations? My early shouts reflected this concern. "Why are there no US political parties that are anti-war?" is one of my favorites. I think it reflects both my idealism and naiveté. Some would say that idealism and naivete must go hand in hand. I beg to differ."
Well, that doesn't explain why he is so focused on pulling eUSA out of EDEN and why he is manipulating public opinion to achieve his goal. Let's see what were his thoughts about allies and alliance during the destruction of eUSA, when all that was left was Florida?
"The US is currently being taught a lesson in this war and I for one am not about to let it go by. Instead of adapting to changing world conditions we've continued to alienate potentially friendly nations with an erratic and belligerent foreign policy. I'd like to see this changed permanent and I believe with this current administration it has somewhat. We need to do a better job at communications, both internationally and with our own citizens."
So how come he changed his mind about EDEN? Or did he? Maybe it was just an opportunism, use the alliance while you need it, abandon it when you meet your objectives and leave allies behind.
"In short, we are not a power that can forgo alliances and having friendly nations that view us as a critical component of their security. There may be a moment in the future in which we will be so powerful as to be able to pick and choose our alliances more selectively but until that time we need to place strong emphasis on maintaining those relationships we currently have and work harder to building better relations with those nations that we do not."
WOW, just wow! So you are saying: Let's use EDEN and then we will pick friends that suit us better when we are strong ourselves? Hm, so you actually think that it is ok to betray an ally as long as it suits your goal? Is that why Spain was erased from the map and why Finland got erased few days ago? Talking about Spain:
"😉
uring Emerick's Presidency when the US was nearly completely occupied by Russia, Indonesia, Hungary and Portugal we were broke. I mean we had like 38 gold in the Treasury, a broken economy, rampant unemployment and no way to think about getting the kinds of gold needed to turn things around. Spain loaned us 1800 gold. Spain has ALWAYS been there for the US and was there again tonight in Liaoning in spades. Much more than meets the eye of the casual observer, I assure you."
That same Spain is in EDEN. That same Spain is helping Poland and Croatia to clear the mess of Slovenian MPPs that are open because of your administrations error. How are you helping? I assure you, saying sorry and "cya guys, we are out of here", is NOT the help we need. Your apology was taken with sympathy but your action wasn't. You are supposed to lead the damage control in Europe, instead you are securing your high iron in Asia.
Besides, how do you plan to do what you promised to do without Croatian MPPs against Hungary and Serbia? Here is your promise to American people:
"Make no mistake - as Vice President of the eUS I would never support the forced occupation of non-hostile territory. China is our ALLY. India is our ALLY. We will not be occupying their territory against their wishes. Our immediate goal is to deny PHOENIX members access to the high resources in Asia, return these territories to their rightful owners and guarantee their security for the long-term. This is what we are working towards."
I do not see you working on that common goal. Instead I see you trying to secure another high region for eUSA, the high diamond region. Why is that more important then high iron in PHX hands??? When did it become more important? When v2 arrives (if ever), then high diamond regions will make a valuable resource. But right here, right now, Hungary and Serbia are getting stronger every day and your high iron region looks more fragile every day.
So why is it that you want out of EDEN? Is that new idea or did you "forget" to mention you have this agenda when you ran for president?
"The recent change in the cost of MPPs from 30 g to 100 g a month PLUS the requirement that this cost be paid to keep MPPs open after a war is opened means that we need to seriously think about with whom we ally with. Do we NEED a power alliance ala EDEN? Or do we need to think of MPPs strategically to provide protection to like-minded friendly countries?"
Looks like it is not an idea triggered by recent events. It is as old as MPP cost change! So you ran for the office with hidden agenda? Hm, for someone advocating open and transparent governing, you sure had a nice secret! Please tell me it is not about money! That would really confirm a stereotype about America - doing it all for profit! Hm, next statement proves it, unfortunately 🙁
"We should NOT, however, lock ourselves into a potentially unneccessary and expensive membership in EDEN if at all possible. The current geopolitical situation is much too volatile to warrant this step."
Well today you left a comment in this article saying that you were pro-EDEN at the start of your term:
"Actually at the start of my term I was supportive of EDEN - so much so that Sindh happened without my knowledge."
Judging by your own articles and quotes presented here, you have been contra EDEN for much longer then this office term...
Not sure if I should continue with this, but here is what you really want - in your own words:
"Now is the time to DICTATE OUR WILL and LEAVE A LASTING IMPRESSION on the face of eRepublik."
Well at least it is not about money... I wonder if Americans knew about all this when you got elected. You can argue that this is taken out of the context, but everyone can read your articles as I did. You went from idealistic "make love, not war" to AMERIFIRST! in amazingly short period of time.
I will work with the military command structure and our allies to make the best decisions possible with regard to foreign policy and war. Contrary to popular belief, I am not a warmonger but do believe in the usefulness of war as an economic stimulus, political tool and in energizing our citizens.
GOOD! Then do it! Work with your allies and not against them! USA got most of all EDEN countries and none of the allies has issues with that. We all understand the need of having strong ally. We cheer Polish baby boom, we admire bravery of Finland and I do not understand why you can't put alliance interest before your own now? This is a TEAM game, not every member for himself! Hm, where did I read that? Oh, here:
PigInZen objectives in one of his campaigns:
2. Posturing and politics is sheer idiocy - this is a TEAM game and petty disputes get in the way of effectiveness.
AMEN TO THAT! Now do as you wrote and stop this BS about leaving EDEN!
Romper
concerned citizen of EDEN
Disclaimer: Do you think I criticize PigInZen to hard? Well, final quote from PiZ:
"Finally, I will always, always take criticism and be held accountable for our failures, be they of my own doing, the doing of members of my administration, or of us collectively. That's what leaders do. They stand up and lead."
EDIT 31/03 at 18:15
I just received a word from another concerned citizen that PiZ endorsed a certain candidate in his shout. So I examined this candidates stand on EDEN and I must say it came as no surprise to me that he wants immediate removal of eUSA from EDEN:
"If elected President, I will support the immediate withdraw of the eUnited States from Eden, and push the focus of our country towards supporting the Brolliance, while keeping friendly relations with a select group of Eden powers, such as Spain, Croatia, and Greece."
So PiZ endorses a candidate that plans to stay friendly to only 3 countries in EDEN??? This means that Poland, Romania, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Switzerland and Bosnia and Herzegovina are just not worth 100 gold for MPP with USA. Simplifie😛
"Guys, it is your own fault you are not strong enough to be of any use to us! Go away until you get a decent damage!"
However it would be a funny thing to see Socialist USA 😃
I must admit I never expected PiZ to endorse socialism since he openly advocated free trade and globalization in his articles! No way is he endorsing this candidate ONLY because of his stand towards EDEN?
Comments
wow, nice aritcle, first? vote
Reported for abuse of another player.
lol @Dell Fargus
vote
Dell Fargus, it speaks about his politics, it does not speak about the person
@Romper kralju
I can still remember the good old days...
Hell yes. Insightful, and educational about how much EDEN has really helped us. Yes, there are trolling on both sides, but that doesn't mean we need to be good ol' classy America, dis-communicate, then leave our friends when it benefits us (or when we become offended), and become money-hungry. Let's turn away from IRL capitalism for a moment.
We'll be up to our damn necks in war, if not with some former EDEN nations, but an open invitation to either) 1 Phoenix Treaty Proposals or ) 2 Phoenix Attacks.
America might not be saved by a single state this time.
(This is pure speculation, except the first paragraph.)
And voted.
Join S.E.E.S., and vote Woxan. Like he, and others have said "Communication is two ways" (or something along those lines). The only communication we have right now is with ourselves as the eUSA, and even that, is not very good.
Dell Fargus is a troll. 🙂
@Romper: i admire your will and effort put into this article, as for reading all PiZ's articles takes a lot of time and energy. be very open minded and expect a lot of critisizm from eUSA citizens, cause they will not read the actuall article but just spit on it - even if u are the most righteous man alive.
it's just what most of them do.
use, abuse and throw away your allies eUSA i double dare you...
however, i am assured that the same already happened will happen again if they leave EDEN.
but what will happen if eUSA is erased from map for the second time? nothing will. once you betray your allies they are not going to blindly help yout again after your doing so.
fish fish, you didn't read my comment. Not all Americans are for this, just the butthurt that can't stand to realize eUSA isn't the best, and the only reason eUSA is still on the map is with EDEN's help.
I won't give any names. I'll leave it at that.
@ My fellow Croats
Pls stop posting articles/comments in eUSA telling them what they should or shouldn't do. (You're really not helping that way)
If they decide to "leave" EDEN it doesn't mean they will side with Phoenix. They were allies of EDEN nations long before they officially joined.
malosanmaka you are right, but it would be nice to hear what Americans think, knowing more about their president.
Why not waiting for presidential elections in USA, where EDEN will most likely be the top question. It is safe to assume that the winner of that election has popular vote, pro or against EDEN.
Then everyone will know if majority wants to stay with EDEN or leave and respect that decision.
Leaving before elections, what PiZ advocates, looks like sneaking out really...
Svaka ti cast na clanku, uzivam citajuci... 😉
Vote
vote great article Romper
vote
@Tessorf: thank you for your oppinion.
but the thruth is that you did not read my comment thouroughly, 'cause i said "thats what most of them do". as in citizens who actually comment articles, not as in eUSA citizens in general.
the easiest way to make it look like all Americans belive in something is to form a group of citizens who will troll the comments on some issues, and if one of those trollers happens to be the president of eUSA - u'll get the situation we are dealing with today... 🙂
@ My fellow Croats
Pls stop posting articles/comments in eUSA telling them what they should or shouldn't do. (You're really not helping that way)
If they decide to "leave" EDEN it doesn't mean they will side with Phoenix. They were allies of EDEN nations long before they officially joined.
X2
I agree with the fact that this is an American problem, yes of course we are all disappointed about the fact that America is even considering this proposal, because most of Croats is part of the US army, many of them live there (legendary Florida), and of course we admire you as an ally as we admire the whole EDEN
But this is your own way and choice 🙂 godspeed
nice work romper, congrats for the effort!! hope something positive comes out of it...
as they say: vote as big as a q5 house!!
Trolling manipulated our opinion, not our president, he has just been listening to the people.
There are still many congressman that want to stay in EDEN, plus there's a good chance that the next US president will rejoin EDEN if that happens.
@Kaiscsk
If random trolling makes your opinion (and to be honest it is fueled by PHX comments and some of USA citizen comments as well), then you should ask yourselves why is it so easy to sway your opinion in either direction? Why don't you look at allies through actions and achievements, not words?
For me as the outsider it looks more and more like your president feels it is opportune to have MPPs and allies help but to conveniently avoid paying EDEN membership by stepping out of the alliance. Does it not look like that to you as well?
Plus it gives him a nice choice of going after his own agenda, rather then common goal of EDEN. I understand why it is in USA best interest to secure diamonds in South Africa, but that is very short sighted. You can not keep those regions when PHX decides to take them from you. They will have gold to take it and your allies won't to help you defend it. Why? Because of endless profit that HK and LK generate. By cutting off that gold supply, you help yourselves in the first place, because it secures the position you have in Asia and makes it possible to focus on South Africa.
So deal with trolling, it will go away eventually, as Peru fiasco showed us (Spain-Poland trolling). By leaving EDEN you just add fuel in the fire, instead of trying to fix the mistake and move on!
final quote from PiZ:
"Finally, I will always, always take criticism and be held accountable for our failures, be they of my own doing, the doing of members of my administration, or of us collectively. That's what leaders do. They stand up and lead."
o7 Mr. President. You are a stand-up leader.
voted!
I think, sir, you read far too much into these quotes, and also that whole part about trying to get the eUS a diamond region for titanium; thats a complete tangent and really has nothing to do with your article so don't bring it up.
Btw, incase you didn't know, keeping Karna from PHX is an EDEN goal
Allow me to simply say this: I wrote an article last week about principles in foreign policy. Without principles and a reason for the alliance the lowest common denominator will dominate. That is, countries will seek the most gain and advantage from every opportunity they can. This is my ultimate criticism of EDEN - that there is no overall reason for the alliance. When I put forth this suggestion and asked why such was the case, the answer was that every time it had been tried before no consensus could be reached.
Think about that. Even a simple purpose as "directly oppose Phoenix by any means possible and encourage like-minded nations to join in this purpose" hasn't been formulated. When I suggested that two lists of nations be made, a recognized "targets of EDEN" (i.e., belligerents) and a recognized list of "friends and friendly neutrals of EDEN", there was serious objection.
Sorry, no thanks. This is the most basic of common goals and yet even this couldn't be agreed upon. And it shows in the public bickering, accusations and trolling.
@ Illithian
How do you intend to achieve that goal if not by throwing Hungary and Serbia out of Asia?
@ PigInZen
Do you really have to see it written down, that basic principle of EDEN is to "directly oppose Phoenix by any means possible and encourage like-minded nations to join in this purpose"? Is that not self evident truth? As for second part, encouraging like-minded nations, well it can be misinterpreted as expansionism.
But never the less, why don't you name in public who exactly opposes the ultimate goal of taking HK and LK from PHX? It is not Spain since they helped with creating land bridge for Croatia in order to bring MPPs against PHX to Asia. It is not Poland or Croatia, as they try hard on doing just that. So WHO is it?
Who seriously objects writing down names of PHX countries? I mean, why don't you write them down and let's see who doesn't approve?
If you can't agree on who enemy is, then I am sure EDEN citizens want to know why and who is it that is obstructing the pursuit of common goal of throwing PHX out of Asia?
You didn't respond to my insinuation about costly membership in EDEN. What is your position on that? It is very convenient not to pay monthly fee and still have all MPPs 🙂
I'll put it simply. I don't pay to be anybody's friends.
You talk as if we won't help Croatia get to Hello Kitty and Lion King. When was that ever stated? And PigInZin stated we will sign MPPs with countries that are still interested. I see that as a sign that we are not just leaving EDEN out to dry. You are still are friends our agendas are just different, that doesn't mean we won't give you aid when we believe you need it. America is a stubborn country that likes to do things her own way in RL and elife. We are making our own path, but that doesn't mean we can't be friends.
I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
Am i the only eUS citizen that wants to stay in eden?
@Kaiscsk - "You talk as if we won't help Croatia get to Hello Kitty and Lion King."
Well, you did not. Prekmurje - ring a bell? And please don't tell me that you apologised for it. Person that made decision to attack in Sindh should be kicked from JCS/government.
"we will sign MPPs with countries that are still interested."
Poland? No. Croatia? No. Spain? No. Romania? No.
"We are making our own path, but that doesn't mean we can't be friends. "
For me if you have different agendas then we can't be friends.
@sumeone123 - hope not, because you will be called second UK, and it isnt nice.
So much hate... and you wonder why we want to leave.
Where is that hate? Jesus, when I disagree with your point of view then I am a hater? I simply stated some facts and my private opinions.
Want to go your own way? OK, but be aware of the consequences.
Btw Can anyone tell me who is that genious that ordered americans to fight in Sindh? Im seriuosly curious. PiZ wrote somewhere that it wasn't him and I couldn't find it anywhere.
And I dont blame soldiers for following their orders!
Damn 😃
Wanted to hate it but you got me 😉
Vote/Subed
i support my president and this move.
lotta research to have read every PIZ article...
I appreciate your effort, this is not an issue that should be handled by emotions as we tend to do.
@ George Armstrong Custer
I wish more people would think like that. That is why a suggestion to postpone this decision until after presidential elections sounds like a very good idea.
Things did cool down over last few days but it all got heated up again with this congressional vote. Why such a hurry? Besides, making EDEN question a priority in presidential campaigns would give at least some sort of indication of a public opinion about the matter. Not a very reliable one, but at least some credibility would be given to a decision to stay or leave.
@ Kaiscsk
Why is it that when arguments are against this decision, it always goes back to "Nobody likes me, I won't play any more". That is incredibly childish behavior. Do you remember flaming war between Poland and Spain over Peru? Look at them now - best buddies. Why PiZ couldn't let it all cool down, why bringing this issue out over and over again? Well that is the reason for my article. I just couldn't understand that anyone would keep reopening an issue when it was already half forgotten, but I guess decision to leave EDEN is older then recent events of Prekmurje battle.
Oh and his argument is that EDEN did not help in first round of battles in South Africa. Statistic from that battle tell a different story:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-9594-the-battle-of-limpopo-1263540/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-959[..]1/20
Our President is right, I support his decision to leave. We're getting out of EDEN before it collapses under the weight of corruption and infighting.
Wow, trolling US media, attacking the sitting president is one way to really get the American public behind EDEN. When we had a seat at the EDEN leadership table there were fewer issues, because EDEN was forced to directly communicate with the eUS. EDEN started out as the European Defense and Economic Network, right? You guys are getting back to your roots, that's good. It is clear the the eUS is not a valued ally in some member nation's eyes. Therefore, it makes most sense that we pursue a course of individual alliances with the countries of Europe that wish to be our allies. Clearly there are levels of ethnocentrism on both sides of the table, but until both sides are willing to set that aside, no progress can be made. Good bye EDEN and thanks for all the fish. 😉
Trolling? Attacking? Those are his words in this article... Did you even read it?
Point of the article is that it has nothing to do with recent events. It has everything to do with either money issue (monthly fee) or with the fact that PiZ has different agenda than EDEN now that he got what he needed from the alliance...
Why would we want to pay big $$ to be a part of an organization whose leadership treats us like crap? It seems like a much better idea to spend that extra money on financing our military so we can fight that much harder for our brother nations.
There you go Waco Kid, that is the point! But why would anyone pay for it? Why would we even have an alliance?
What was it, In Pluribus Unum? From many, one?
Waco Kid you just told the unspoken truth behind all this. It is about 2100 gold that eUSA pays for EDEN membership. But instead of trying and working on more acceptable formula, PiZ just thought of more convenient way - do not pay for membership, but keep MPPs. At least don't try and blame others for it because any misunderstandings and bad communication within the alliance can be solved without leaving the alliance. But in order to leave to save some money, any excuse will do 🙂
Agreed with the article........
And in comments we see what is the story all about, MONEY.
Yeah, money, we all see it, your president says it, why we would pay membership in EDEN, when we don`t get what we wont. And looks like lot of americans think the same thing.
So let me remind you what did you get with that, remember battle of Kyushu, I think all of EDEN troops were there, we lost but never the less, remember Liaoning when it was in Iran hands, same thing.... and so on and on. And you did not get Karnatka by yourself my dear friends, whole EDEN get you there and of course you have to pay for membership, like we all do, it is for common goals, like that campaign was, you can`t say now we have got what we want there, lets move to titanium eUSA does not have that, that is not how things are going, you can`t look always for your best interests but your allies best interests.
@Romper well done for the hard work.
I support my President I think he has done an excellent job. The only real mistake he made was apologizing too much. If the apology had been accepted this would have been avoided but your trolls have pushed us out of Eden. It made us all look at the alliance where it was headed, how much it costs and how it effects our relations with other nations.
The way Poland and Croatia have acted over the last 2 months has let the alliance down.
Bye Bye Eden
@ Manic Eskimo
What are you talking about? Random accusations of Croatia letting alliance down over past 2 months? Can you give an example?
Maybe RW in Northern Cape where Croatia did biggest damage and South Africa came back on the map???
The quotes in my article show that PiZ had every intention of leaving EDEN regardless of recent events in Prekmurje battle. Using trolling as excuse is simply lame. Everyone already moved on but he keeps fueling that trolling by insisting on leaving EDEN! It is, as it always seems to be, about money! Why pay 2100 gold when you can get same MPPs for free? Well, I hope he anticipated the possible NO on MPP from EDEN countries. After all, why supporting someone who leaves after getting what they wanted and doesn't want to help those that helped them getting it?
Guess we are kids, fine with me now please gtfo of our media.
*Adds fuel to the fire*
@ Kaisck
Truth hurts?
It is all to no avail now.
Moving on...
the horse is dead buddy.
TL😉R!
чет непонятно ниче... лол
voted