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Fixing the TOP5 - Part II

Day 2,196, 14:52 Published in Netherlands Netherlands by NoTie112

Dear citizens of the eNetherlands,

Last month we had Congress Elections for the first time in a long time - a celebration of democracy you would say - wasn't it for the fact there were attempts to manipulate the top 5 ranking of political parties by the Bilderberg Group. Only top5 parties are able to participate in Congress, hence the attempts of manipulation.

Myself, being part of Libertas member and being on the lower end of the top 5, felt endangered by this behaviour, and made an article about it. It was coincidence, they said. I was wrong for doing this disgusting attempt of blacklisting people and parties, they said.

PLEASE NOTE I specifically mentioned ''alexthebest'' and ''Reinier Claessen'' in that article. This month, the battle for the top 5 has ensued again. Libertas, Iron & Wine, the Dutch People Party and Vrij en Veilig Nederland all have ensued on a recruitment campaign to ensure their position. Interesting cooperations happened with for example the Revolutionary Party and DPP/I&W, which is a democratic process I applaud! However, as we speak, a less subtle manipulation attempt has started again - BG members ''alexthebest'' and ''Reinier Claessen'' have joined VVN, without any intention of cooperation between their parties - HOURS before the election date. Not to mention the last time they were accused of this (they moved from GPN to BG), it was declared to be a honest move and they intented to stay there.

Hereby I request BG (or at least the mentioned individuals) to stop these sickening practices.

A concerned politician,
NoTie112

 

Comments

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,196, 15:02

Voted. Yes, I agree, it would be nice if the parties' and individuals' intentions were made public rather than them manufacturing sneaky political power plays behind the scenes.

Comment deleted

Nomadicracer
Nomadicracer Day 2,196, 18:09

"attempts to manipulate the top 5 ranking of political parties by the Bilderberg Group." LOL
I have seen articles from all parties trying to recruit more members.. We have made our platform public for months.. nothing sneaky about that! we actually publish more articles than any other party.. and keep more of our intentions pubic in the game.. not hidden on restricted areas of that silly forum game..
This is the Democratic way.. LOL
not sure why your trying infer we do anything wrong.. Its perfectly normal for people to change political parties.. just like they move to other countries.. what ever they like.. not sure why the one vote per citizen policy the game implements sicken's you.. Play the game in the Democratic fashion it has been designed..stop trying make up your own rules & conspiracy theories.. The Bilderburg Groep is an extremely active, freethinking & Pro eNetherland Political Party..

Sounds more like your a concerned control freak over a politician.. Deal with Democracy.. you dont have any right to control other eCitizens actions, votes, or opinions.. or judge them for playing the game in whatever legal fashion they wish...

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,196, 20:17

I don't think NoTie was complaining about the Bilderberg Groep recruiting. That isn't the issue here at all. It's the sudden movement of certain players into VVN at the very last minute before the election in order to push DPP out of the top 5. And their intentions have not been made public whatsoever. Where is the article announcing that Bilderberg Groep and VVN are going to combine for the election? I haven't seen a single article from any of the players that have moved discussing why they have decided to move or what has been promised to them in order for them to move. This is clearly a coordinated move. But, again, I believe you have completely missed the central point of NoTie's article.

ALSO, I take issue with your claim that Bilderberg Groep publishes more articles than any other party. In fact, I have highhandedly published the most when compared to all other parties in the past 2 and a half weeks.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,196, 20:18

single-handedly* Sorry for autocorrect.

SKYJACKED
SKYJACKED Day 2,197, 04:47

think i posted about 15+ articles last 2 weeks and that was only from me personally , than we have walhallah's , nomadic's & aries articles to.
So why are you taking issue with nomadic's claim ????
How many did you post???

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:10

@SKYJACKED I was more referring to actual party updates and party recruitment articles.

SKYJACKED
SKYJACKED Day 2,197, 10:13

an article is an article m8

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:24

That's true but I don't think publishing for the sake of publishing is necessarily better. But I do admit I enjoy yours and Walhallah's articles a lot.

Aries Prime
Aries Prime Day 2,196, 22:05

Eh, you don't have to like it, but this is going to happen every election.

I wouldn't call it a BG policy or official stance. We are all individuals here with our own minds and words. The main difference being between us and the other parties is that we don't have some big shot talking head to lead us : )

Aries Prime
Aries Prime Day 2,196, 22:06

As Nomadic put it... we are a group of free thinkers.

Aries Prime
Aries Prime Day 2,196, 22:09

As a last comment: It sounds like some of you still don't get the purpose of Bilderberg Groep. We aren't your typical party.

NoTie112
NoTie112 Day 2,197, 04:00

What then? IT's just another political party, or should we see it as some kind of paramilitary force now which keeps ''things in order''?

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,196, 23:55

I understand. What I don't understand is why BG members are joining VVN? Why not just stay in VVN then? I mean, I don't see that they are standing for the election in VVN, so what exactly are they doing there besides trying to manipulate the congress ballot.

Why join BG if members are just going to come and go every time there is an election in order to mess with the order of the top 5? Either get into the top 5 and elect your own representatives or do what we at the DRP have done and negotiate with those parties in the top 5 in order to be able to take part in government and figure a way to get your own party members elected and have the opportunity to have a say in shaping the destiny of the country. I don't understand how manipulating people's choices in the congress elections is something that is beneficial for BG given BG is not moving into the top 5 through these actions and, from what I have seen, no BG members are standing for election in any of the other parties. If I'm wrong about that, then that is my mistake.

I'm just honestly confused about the motive for screwing around with the official congress ballots a few hours before an election begins. It appears some BG members aren't actually looking out for BG and trying to grow BG but are instead motivated to hurt other parties because they possibly have a personal vendetta with them. Again, if I am wrong, then that is my mistake. That is simply how it appears to someone looking in from the outside.

GEN. DE LA REY
GEN. DE LA REY Day 2,196, 23:23

Very disappointing

DaanHQ
DaanHQ Day 2,197, 09:16

From Libertas point of view i suppose? And I suspect the fact that other parties now also are actively recruting before elections like Notie has always done?

GEN. DE LA REY
GEN. DE LA REY Day 2,197, 09:21

Sorry what are we saying? We are not permitted to recruit?

DaanHQ
DaanHQ Day 2,197, 09:38

By al means, but apparently other parties arn't as then it are " sickening practices".
But having said that; I got several requests from Notie to leave VVN and join him. That's what i would qualify as "sickening practices". But hey; If someone else does the sort of thing you yourself practice I suspect it is to be judged in a different matter so you can complain about it in articles.

TheGeneralDutch
TheGeneralDutch Day 2,197, 00:04

"without any intention of cooperation between their parties"
we actually have intentions to coöperate and maybe even merge our parties due to similar ideas and goals.
However , this is still in an early stage and is firmly discussed in our party...

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 00:17

Interesting. I'm not sure if VVN told you guys, but they offered the same thing to the Dutch Revolutionary Party. It was definitely interesting timing to say the least. They suddenly decided that they wanted to consider merging with us when they were threatened with being left outside of the top 5 for the congress elections. Maybe I am just too cynical, but the timing is definitely questionable in my opinion.

TheGeneralDutch
TheGeneralDutch Day 2,197, 00:20

i understand...

TheGeneralDutch
TheGeneralDutch Day 2,197, 00:26

the thing is...., we in the BG want to influence as much as we can
we're kinda tired of being outside the top 5 and never getting elected and we have some smart and helpfull people in our party and i think you might understand that we're desperate for some oppurtunities to increase the fun .....

SKYJACKED
SKYJACKED Day 2,197, 04:36

you know i think is questionable , sending some of our members a pm and trying to recruit them for your own party ......
IMO thats not very classy ..... so stop complaining about others and look at ur own actions
To bad that one of the members is family of mine , otherwise i probably wouldn't have known that you where trying to steal BG members ....

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:12

@SKYJACKED Bilderberg Groep has tried to do the exact same thing. Don't get hypocritical. I seem to remember you guys sending other parties' members an invitation to join BG as well.

SKYJACKED
SKYJACKED Day 2,197, 10:20

Not by me , all peepz i invited where not affiliated to any PP when i send them out .
Like i send you and cody an invitation before you started up DRP

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:27

Yes, good choice of wording there. "Not by me" then that doesn't include any other member of BG whatsoever?

SKYJACKED
SKYJACKED Day 2,197, 10:37

i can't and won't controle other members , everyone in BG is free to do as the please.
Like some of other BG members stated "We aren't your typical party."

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:45

Ok, that is fine. However, how are other parties supposed to react when people are being invited to join BG, perhaps not by you, and they are already in one of the other parties? I understand everyone has their own mind and can make their own choices, but why is it okay for everyone in OUR parties to be susceptible to being invited to join BG but none of the BG members are?

SKYJACKED
SKYJACKED Day 2,197, 11:06

they should've send me or the PP a note , myself i think its not a very classy thing to do.
Also i think my party members know how i think on this subject.
IMO it's not a common practise to try and steal members away with pm's.
Than just be open about it and get an article out , than if players change they did that willing & knowing and on their own recognisence.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 00:32

Yes, I understand that perspective completely. : ) I'm just a bit skeptical that VVN will take that to heart. Maybe they actually appreciate the great ideas put forward by BG and by our party as well, but there is still the possibility that they are just trying to use your members and were TRYING to use our members for their own gain. I hope that is not the case but, again, I'm probably just too much of a cynic. haha

Trannsvaal
Trannsvaal Day 2,197, 01:26

Use you? How was that ever the case?

RikW
RikW Day 2,197, 01:43

Well, I've been in good contact with Marnix Maximus for a long time already and we've been discussing working together more for a longer period. If one of the parties involved doesn't see any advantage to that it's just logical we move on to find another solution to make sure we are a viable option in the dutch political climate.

And yes, when elections are getting nearby the urgency is higher, so we talk/cooperate more.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 02:13

@Trannsvaal I didn't say you guys actually did try use them or us. I simply said that could have been a real possibility given the very suspicious timing.

@RikW That may be. However, for this all to take place just a few days before the election, an election in which VVN was quite possibly going to not appear on the ballot, is just suspicious. We didn't receive any message regarding any coordination between our parties until just a day or two ago. If VVN was so genuinely interested in us and coming together then why wait until the very last minute?

Trannsvaal
Trannsvaal Day 2,197, 02:34

That was 5 days ago actually, plenty of time for discussion. AFTER that you guys made your move, How can our timing on our request be suspicious?

RikW
RikW Day 2,197, 03:28

Because the reason to do so is less urgent when elections are further away. When election time was getting nearby and other parties suddenly growing, we had to do something to stay in congress. Then the idea of working together arises again.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:16

@RikW Exactly. It is suddenly very urgent around election time. So how are we to know your intentions are genuine or simply because you are motivated to get back into the top 5? I still don't see where this has been denied. Can you not see how it can be perceived in this way?

Weekstrom
Weekstrom Day 2,197, 10:54

As Rik stated; It's urgent because other parties are suddenly growing. And as you as a party never cared to respond to my question on how we could cooperate we moved along. To focus on the NEXT elections that is. Not even the current ones as for the current ones we seemed to be safe already.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 11:00

@Weekstrom Tbh, I haven't seen very many parties making any significant moves. The bottom end of the top 5 has been extremely close for weeks with the parties varying by only a handful of members. If by growing, you mean they have a couple more people than VVN, then I guess so.

Weekstrom
Weekstrom Day 2,197, 11:13

Yes it has Lancer. Until the moment Libertas started growing again as it always does just before elections. Somehow at that point several new members arrive. And as they have done so consistently over the last months which made them grow from outside the top 5 to inside the top five we decided to actively recruit new players as well since the last elections.
Apart from that we feel there are to many differences in the political landscape for the small country that we are. That harms the focus we need to solve our problems. Hence the call for cooperation. We even called for that between other parties; Cooperate with each other for the better of eNL, but that was turned down.
And as in the current election mechanism only the top 5 can get elected you could even argue it helps democracy to stick to a max of 5 parties so they can all have their say in congress. Joining forces helps with that as well. Than we wouldn't have had the situation where valued members of I&W are kept from congress or where new promising players in smaller parties are declined the possibility to join.
Furthermore we need unity so what more logic would one need to try to get the power of the parties that focus on that together? We've all seen what the differences between parties leads to. In-game and on forum which doesn't lead to the best possible solutions for eNL.

NoTie112
NoTie112 Day 2,197, 11:56

Weekstrom what is it with your selective hate of me and Libertas, because it makes your facts very subjective. Libertas has been in the top 5 for months. OTHER top5 parties are threatening to enter each month again, at the cost of us. ''suspiciously just before the the election date (last month BG, this month VVN). You acuse of dubious tactics to gain members to get in the top 5 (hello, we have been very established in it already?!) and have declared Libertas to be a dead party without future in a so called objective party analyse of the eNetherlands - the facts at the ground are that Libertas and VVN will probably be as powerful the next month (in Congress, at least).

Weekstrom
Weekstrom Day 2,197, 03:12

As a response to, mainly, lancer450's complaint I would like to show you all the
following conversation.
As you all can read we offered DRP three seat in congress. As we all were able to read here DRP did chose a different approach. It was even "gambling on two horses". A strange bet if you ask me; The almost certain 3 seats vs 2 potential seats. And as it turns out it's most likely you only will get one seat. So you gambled and lost.

As for the article;
Ah never mind. If it had been someone else writing it I could have reacted, but coming from the man who actively bribes members of other parties amongst other things and states about that it is common practice during elections how serious should we take that only because it doesn't fit his agenda?
I even think we should give him the credits for these lively days upfront the elections.

NoTie112
NoTie112 Day 2,197, 03:59

Don't claim moral superiority here, Weekstrom, while your own party is established by these same ''shamefull'' practices. Not to mention that all my strategies have been copied by at least 5 parties by now and been launched against each and every new player that starts playing eRepublik.

How wouldn't it fit my agenda? Libertas is not even the endangered party (that was I&W). Clearly VVN has an agenda which it needed enforcing power for (Congress, that is). You have kicked out a party which didn't enter these manipulative paths while it could have.

LeoVinciDa
LeoVinciDa Day 2,197, 04:27

It's not really gambling on two horses, the offers are different. Fusing to one party is one choise and keeping the party's identity with (a) possible seat(s) is another choise. You're right about the decrease of the number of seats, but keeping the identity of the (new) party is more important at the moment.

As a remark on the article itself, changing party's for getting other party's in the top 5 is a choise people has to make for themself, it's only a pity that party's are not as transparant about it as the DRP is in the media. I prefer transparancy, that's paramount for an honest democracy.

LeoVinciDa
LeoVinciDa Day 2,197, 04:29

It's of course choice, pardon me for my terrible English... It looked so wrong typing it... Monday mornings...

Weekstrom
Weekstrom Day 2,197, 06:16

The two horses I meant were I&W and DPP as they transferred one member to both parties.

LeoVinciDa
LeoVinciDa Day 2,197, 06:33

Ok, not sure why we didn't stick on one party, although I don't think anybody could expect I&W not being in congress. However, we still maintain our identity and gained a congressmember.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:21

No actually it isn't that simple. We were in contact with the other parties for a while longer than VVN. In fact, DPP had contacted us just a few days after the creation of our party.

Then, a few days before an election in which VVN is narrowly outside of the top 5, we receive that message. How are we to know you wanted to genuinely cooperate with one another when you barely acknowledged our existence until then? The timing was very suspicious from our perspective and I'm not saying you legitimately did not want to actually cooperate, I'm simply saying that it is very much questionable in our opinion.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 10:49

As an aside, to my other comment: We didn't care about how many seats were being offered. We honestly were, perhaps mistakenly, very suspicious of the timing in which that offer was made. Again, the other parties had contacted us long before. To turn on them at the end and to help to throw them out of the top 5 just so the DRP could gain extra congress seats would have been a disgusting and disgraceful move on our end and that is part of the reason as to why we refused that offer. Hope that clears things up.

Weekstrom
Weekstrom Day 2,197, 11:01

Well you could at least have had the decency to respond to my question in the feed I started. Perhaps it would have made things clear. But you're still welcome to do so as it still is about the greater good of our country and I think we have a lot in common and could benefit from each other. Just like I said in the thread between our parties.

lancer450
lancer450 Day 2,197, 11:26

@Weekstrom I've sent you a message explaining further why I had not responded. My apologies for that.

 
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