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Few cents about BG-EDEN-TR issue

Day 1,565, 16:51 Published in USA USA by Ariakis
Well first of all I was about to write article a long time ago, but I guess I was to lazy. Also since people in eRepublik in general tend to listen to emotions, not reason I felt it was rather pointless. Well probably still is but whatever.

radens wrote an article about mistakes done by both HQ and BG during introducing Turkey, mihai cazacu wrote about how stupid was to suspend Bulgaria right now, Boyan was writing about mistakes in Bulgarian FA lately and earlier about pros and contras of Turkey wandering into EDEN. At some points I agree with them, maybe with most so I'll try to keep to minimum stating what was done right and what was done wrong.

If you want short version then: you're all to blame: Bulgaria, Turkey, HQ+CC. Each side made mistakes, each side was too stubborn, inactive or not reasonable enough. Tho personally I'm disappointed the most in Bulgarians since I can't get it how they are so freely speaking of what they did for EDEN, obviously forgetting what EDEN gave them.
Turkey is Turkey - can't be disappointed since I tend to build my opinion over time and still haven't done it completely, HQ and CPs are better or worse, anyway people can blame themselves for choosing CPs who in their opinion sucks, Country Council can blame itself if it can't elect working HQ.

And as for ONE trolls: before you comment grow up some working alliance, with working diplomacy, commanders who have brain and strategic abilities, learn what alliance means and try on thinking about your allies not only when you need to buy their future services by helping them at the very moment. I could also tell you to find any ONEish country which never ever betrayed anyones trust, but I've heard Slovenia wants to held referendum to get out of ONE and you already told them they betrayed you, so finding such a country would be impossible from the start.

But to the point(s)

Well - first of all Turkey going pro-EDEN - as we now see it led to almost total domination of TEDEN, not as big as ONE had at their peak when it comes to raw power, but combined with experience, better coordination and having a working brain it's enough to wipe them off, especially when they tend to lose faith in alliance and will to fight.

On the other hand it led to some serious internal problems in EDEN. The most funny thing is that problems are caused by single nation. Even Greeks who are considered to be quite stubborn got along with Turks - and they have both eR and real life reasons not to like them.

What I find a bit bitter, but funny is the accusation that EDEN - like HQ and CPs betrayed values of brotherhood. Could be right if only there wasn't a large uprising in Bulgarian society stating that:
a) they are one of the strongest members - so should that mean they have bigger rights or can solo dictate the rest of alliance?
b) they sacrificed and fought for others - yes, like the rest of alliance
c) EDEN cares only about damage and resources - then why the heck you mentioned your own damage as an argument and started being afraid of rented regions in Ukraine and Russia which were kept to defend mentioned countries from Turkey?.

Guys who whined out loud and were screaming EDEN choose Bulgaria or Turkey are in fact rather small group which if I was up to act emotionally, I'd address with 'There's the door'. Seriously a brother-like attitude: tell the guys who also fought for you and supported you to make a choice between two countries they want in.

At this point I could've tell that Bulgaria is acting all almighty and at the same time like a spoiled brat: it's either our way or no way.
If I'm correct Turkey is accused of acting the same way. HQ aswell.

smrtan tried to act same way and guess that's why my unit is now in Croatia, not in Poland. Which leaves me a bit disappointed, not in Bulgaria as a country, but in Bulgarians that didn't oppose those who are deaf to any reasoning and driven only by their own demands putting their interests before interests of an alliance.

Ok - and as for HQ - I can understand why HQ decided to take the risk - obviously keeping Turkey neutral could work a bit better - they could go for Iran alone or fight against ONE alone. On the other hand we don't know if Israel, Romania would be free today or if TEDEN would be able to... well win.

The trial period was kind of mistake - well since it's not stated in any written law how long it should last it could be voted to last a day. Tho someone earlier decided that it should be 3 months - well - in times of crisis exceptions can be made and it all comes to the fact that the vote of majority decides. And it wasn't solely decided by HQ, but by Country Council - legal representatives of nations.

And as for trial - no, voting 'NO' to full membership never ever cancelled a trial of a country. If it was a case then Israel, Ukraine, Ireland, maybe some other member would never become a member.
And as for the purpose - trials are meant do test: willingness of people to join over time, given the fact that governments changes each month, candidates activity - both their officials and their military assistance also if they are able to be sovereign.

So basically Bulgarian 'NO' meant 'NO' only to Turkish full membership and nothing else - it's not some HQ imagination, but it's how EDEN worked for a long time, and again if EDEN would cancel trial just because of Bulgarian no it would mean that it works under Bulgarian dictate. If Bulgaria wanted to end Turkish trial then they should
a) convince other countries to vote in their favor
b) request voting.

And as for the Bulgarian objections for Turkish full membership: alliance respected them, but was not obliged to kick Turkey out which would put EDEN even lower than ONE, after Turkey helped us, nor EDEN was obliged to greenlight any aggression on Turkey.

Ok - now Turkey - Turkish biggest mistake in the beginning was well, a bit of too much pride combined with arrogance, which added with EDEN willingness to shorten trial resulted in some problems.

Second one was the fact that almost all of EDEN countries forged their bonds during a wartime, which quite often wasn't very good for them. Therefore friendship was built in hard times and over times. That's why they should understand that despite their will and/or friendly acts it will take a time before people start recognizing them as friends.

If we add the fact that some of them stated that this is pure interest and meant only for fighting ONE we have to understand that some people weren't quite happy - Bulgarians having certain arguments against Turkey should be heard and understood without being forced into decisions they aren't ready to make - tho I'm not sure if friendship with Turkey would be ever possible, even over time. Especially given the fact that at some point we could see that no matter what Turkey would do for many of them it wouldn't be enough.

Now as for latest events: Bulgaria is at fault for helping in RWs in Iran and aiding them in direct battle with friendly country. So yes - it was Bulgarians fighting against EDEN - EDEN was just helping a friendly non-member.

Again as a member Bulgaria, despite what some people say, can not take a solo actions that may harm alliance or in any actions without consulting with Country Council. If they wanted regions and if they would as for support of EDEN CPs they would get it - they need those regions, Turkey doesn't.

Turkey in bilateral negotiations can act like they want tho it's stupid and irresponsible. First of all they don't help solving anything, second of all they kinda make the statements coming from ONE justified. And statements coming from ONE being true are kinda aberration.
Their damage doesn't matter - it's not solely about that. And since they were candidate to EDEN they should be aware that it's about cooperation not how strong they are. Same applies for both sides in conflict - they are expected to find a solution not get deeper inside conflict if they truly care about something more that their noses.

And if they would refused to Bulgarian request supported by Country Council then well - it would be a valid reason to evaluate them again and should satisfy Bulgaria, justifying their claims and argumentation.

And no - honestly I don't care what else did they do or how they behaved - it's expected from EDEN members not to act the same way and to solve things in a way which is supported by majority.

And as for suspension of Bulgaria: after a breach of treaty by supporting aggression towards friendly non-member, signing MPP with hostile nation, fighting directly against member in RWs some sort of actions should be done.
And during last two months there was enough of support for hostile actions. And almost total lack of condemning such behaviors coming from government.

And I would support suspension no matter which country would've been in their place.
Simply in an alliance alliance comes first - not country A, B, C or F, but the group. And if somebody is doing wrong things our responsibility is not to blindly support them, but to make them understand that they are wrong.

And honestly given all the logs, comments and articles I can't call Bulgaria innocent. Nor Turkey. Or HQ and CC if they did nothing to solve the situation. But well - as for HQ then: if you didn't like it you should have change it - it's up to CPs. They propose people and they vote.

HQ term is >not< infinite and if the only thing people could do is whining about HQ instead of changing it it's their own damn fault.

Oh, and as for the treaty since people are quite often using it as an argument: wiki treaty is the old, first one, it was resigned in June/July 2010 - bug alpho or avec about it. Dunno if it was again resigned in 2011.

Anyway: if treaty is valid then CC and HQ actions were de iure right, tho we may disagree with point of their actions. If treaty was void since it was outdated then HQ and CC actions were also justified since without treaty they make decisions by simply voting about anything thay want/need.
Yet again we may disagree on the results, motives and point of taking such actions.

As for the coming referendum in Bulgaria: if you wish to leave then go, if you wish to stay then stay. It's up to you, but honestly leaving cause of this would put you in the same row where Poland is. EDEN itself is more than just CPs, HQ or even number of times country A fought for country B compared with times when country B was wiped for helping D.
 

Comments

SovraN
SovraN Day 1,565, 16:58

first=?

SovraN
SovraN Day 1,565, 17:03

c) EDEN cares only about damage and resources - then why the heck you mentioned your own damage as an argument and started being afraid of rented regions in Ukraine and Russia which were kept to defend mentioned countries from Turkey?.

I couldnt agree with you more.
Everyone in here trying to understand what bulgarians want and i couldnt get it still..

Rona1d
Rona1d Day 1,565, 17:04

in conclusion: Turkey always gonna be pro

Romper
Romper Day 1,565, 17:08

Good article, well explained! Who wants to understand, will understand. Those that don't will never understand no matter how hard you try to explain it.
As for Ronald Stevens, he skipped the part where ONE trolls are addressed : )

MR. PADRAIG PEARSE
MR. PADRAIG PEARSE Day 1,565, 17:08

inafterromper

Carlitos Choto I
Carlitos Choto I Day 1,565, 17:09

tl, dr

ps: would you please recommend shorter articles romper?

Gara Tigin
Gara Tigin Day 1,565, 17:10

haters hare < 3

always bla bla , never bla bla.

we always win, and others talks about us.

xXx4R3SxXx
xXx4R3SxXx Day 1,565, 17:13

Shout this and help me spread the voice, let's try to wake up EDEN

EDEN what have you become.....
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/1980186/1/20

jaymzhtfld
jaymzhtfld Day 1,565, 17:14

This is the best article about this issue. Thanks my friend.

xXx4R3SxXx
xXx4R3SxXx Day 1,565, 17:16

great article, explains everything, I have to admit it's by far better than mine regarding this subject

Ariakis
Ariakis Day 1,565, 17:19

"Ronald Stevens Day 1,565, 17:04

in conclusion: Turkey always gonna be pro "

Not really. But even given the fact that I have fought against them almost all my e-life since they were in PEACE/Phoenix and proONE I can't just tell them to FU just like that, without giving them a chance if they are willing to change/join.

EDEN gave that chance to various countries, Bulgaria included which was also an enemy before - so why should we close the door before someone else?

And yes - even if Serbia or Hungary would apply I would be for giving them a chance aswell, tho I'm rather sure they won't and there would be more than one country opposing.

Laki8472
Laki8472 Day 1,565, 17:27

c) EDEN cares only about damage and resources - then why the heck you mentioned your own damage as an argument and started being afraid of rented regions in Ukraine and Russia which were kept to defend mentioned countries from Turkey?.

I like c)

Oblige
Oblige Day 1,565, 17:28

Excellent analysis!

Perhaps the next could a follow up on how to resolve the issue as it stands now?

ExZilYon
ExZilYon Day 1,565, 17:29

How is this situation any different for one that Phoenix had with Bulgaria?!?!?
I still remember articles coming from EDEN media and other EDEN players in that time and I am asking myself why you don't do what you wrote in those articles (ie. respecting your core member no matter the cost is)?
I guess that people change and some of them leave and other come but this big change in attitude of alliance as EDEN is quite surprising.

P.S. About trolls... Having argument behind statement isn't trolling, it is opinion. If you call anyone that gives his/her opinion (no matter of alliance or country he/she belongs) that isn't like yours troll than why would you write something like this?

falco911
falco911 Day 1,565, 17:31

red all the article, got some meaningfull points, voted, already subbed.
so much diplomacy is not turkey's and eTurkey's stronger hand.
we like fighting, constantly, no matter who we are fighting with nor fighting for.
even we have all the resources, all the money on the world, we split ourselves and fight with eachother
thats not my or lazokrasi's opinion, thats turkish way of life through history .

xXx4R3SxXx
xXx4R3SxXx Day 1,565, 17:35

Solution to this is very simple strong will and patience, cause with strong will and little patience everything can be achieved, and I believe so can this, but there need to be more article regarding this

Ariakis
Ariakis Day 1,565, 17:35

Oblige shooting all of them and waiting for more reasonable people counts as solution? ; )

Honestly I'm not sure - the most obvious way is to gather info about all the wrongdoings that happened, proposals from both sides, then evaluating it by third party and coming with a compromise, which like most compromises will make both sides unhappy.

But first of all there is a need of good will for solving problem, and given the fact that both Bulgarians and Turks are sorta proud and emotional then it may not be possible. Bulgaria is still suspended and referendum is coming, Turkey trial is canceled and they may start feeling EDEN treats them like ONE did, so after all we may see hell unleashed soon.

Xeraph is Back
Xeraph is Back Day 1,565, 17:36

c) EDEN cares only about damage and resources - then why the heck you mentioned your own damage as an argument and started being afraid of rented regions in Ukraine and Russia which were kept to defend mentioned countries from Turkey?.

Lazy Greg
Lazy Greg Day 1,565, 17:36

Few more things forgeth by Ariakis: Turkey was invited to EDEN by representative of aliance- EDEN HQ. From that moment we cannot take any agresionagainst them for some reasons. They promise in our name (our- EDEN players): friendship, help, hospitality, support. If Turkey themself would try to join EDEN- IMHO Bulgaria could have green light to do wathever they wanted. But now, no matter if we like it or not, in our name someone give word. And again- what if some another nation gonna decide to join us? Should they be aware about Bulgaria, Croatia, Israel, Canada, or any other EDEN country, with can fu*k them just because they can? Who gonna belive in our representatives promises? I dont try to say EDEN HQ was right, damn, no! Without talk to EDEN ppl they put us in extremely troublesome situation. But what was done- is done. Until there is no reason to act against Turkey, we cant. And we are obligated to support them, as they support us.

irishbhoy1967
irishbhoy1967 Day 1,565, 17:43

Ariakis is EDEN to the core and I respect him as a player of this game more than any other.

I agree with a lot of stuff in this article.

However, I think a suspension 2 days before HQ is to be changed is ridiculous and just looks like a parting shot at Bulgaria. Suspension is not going to help this situation. Bulgaria have acted poorly but suspension imo is too severe.

Turkey should cede the regions they don't need in Iran immediately. They should have done it from Day 1 and this could have helped build confidence. Also, if Turkey had ceded the regions and then Bulgaria continued to act aggressively towards Turkey, then perhaps a suspension would actually have been justified and would have gotten the support of everyone.

My own personal opinion has been this from the start-

1- I'll respect Bulgaria's choice on the Turkey in EDEN issue
2- Turkey should immediately cede the regions in Iran to Bulgaria without question.
3- If Bulgaria get the regions in Iran and continue to act aggressively toward Turkey, I will drop my support for Bulgaria.

I think this would be true for a lot of people, and it is the ONLY way this can end with EDEN being able to hold it's head high no matter what Leaves we have left on the tree afterwards.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,565, 17:43

I'm disappointed the most in Bulgarians since I can't get it how they are so freely speaking of what they did for EDEN, obviously forgetting what EDEN gave them.
_________

Noone has forgotten this. But EDEN also gave a lot of grief to my people in the last couple of months.

Chance Harrison
Chance Harrison Day 1,565, 17:44

Can't believe I read all of that.

"With great power, comes great responsibility."

Ariakis
Ariakis Day 1,565, 17:44

And ExZilYon
"How is this situation any different for one that Phoenix had with Bulgaria?!?!?"

Unfortunately it's very similar - despite the fact that Macedonia became a member of PEACE and Turkey didn't become EDEN member. So EDEN respected that Bulgaria is against Turkey in EDEN. But again Bulgaria can't expect that whole TERRA and EDEN will break diplomatic relations and MPPs with Turkey cause of that.

And I suspect that a part of intimidation towards Bulgaria was stating that they could be left on their own if they would go for Turkey. Which is sorta obvious since it's not likely they would join alliance which has country they vetoed before.

Lazy Greg
Lazy Greg Day 1,565, 17:45

irishbhoy1967 +1

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,565, 17:46

EDEN gave that chance to various countries, Bulgaria included which was also an enemy before - so why should we close the door before someone else?
______

Maybe because it can destabilize the whole alliance like it just happened? But then again you were perfectly aware of the risks.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,565, 17:52

irishbhoy1967 + 1

Finally a voice of reason

Mr_Pornstar
Mr_Pornstar Day 1,565, 17:52

Very nice Sub

cnsfrd
cnsfrd Day 1,565, 17:58

"""Few more things forgeth by Ariakis: Turkey was invited to EDEN by representative of aliance- EDEN HQ. From that moment we cannot take any agresionagainst them for some reasons. They promise in our name (our- EDEN players): friendship, help, hospitality, support. If Turkey themself would try to join EDEN- IMHO Bulgaria could have green light to do wathever they wanted. But now, no matter if we like it or not, in our name someone give word. And again- what if some another nation gonna decide to join us? Should they be aware about Bulgaria, Croatia, Israel, Canada, or any other EDEN country, with can fu*k them just because they can? Who gonna belive in our representatives promises? I dont try to say EDEN HQ was right, damn, no! Without talk to EDEN ppl they put us in extremely troublesome situation. But what was done- is done. Until there is no reason to act against Turkey, we cant. And we are obligated to support them, as they support us."""
x 2

BladeGT
BladeGT Day 1,565, 17:59

Turkish gift for Eden

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-1-1980165/1/20

Hoffa13
Hoffa13 Day 1,565, 18:02

Good article ! o7

ExZilYon
ExZilYon Day 1,565, 18:05

@Ariakis
I don't look it like that because Phoenix accepted Republic of Macedonia(FYROM) despite Bulgarian veto which was not the case with EDEN in the beginning. Now when a lot of things happened you know that Bulgaria will leave EDEN if Turkey is accepted even as trial member now or at least I think they will leave.

Phoenix had to decide between Bulgaria and Republic of Macedonia(FYROM) and we all know who they choose. Most of Phoenix members were marked as traitors and so on...
EDEN now has same well problem as they will (in close future) just need to chose between Bulgaria and Turkey.
What intrigues me is that EDEN as alliance that spread all that propaganda against Phoenix and their doings against Bulgaria as wrong thing is doing almost the same thing(mistake)... I don't really know when this change in attitude of EDEN HQ and EDEN members occurred so I am really surprised why EDEN answer wasn't just plain rejection of Turkey after Bulgarian veto or even worse why are those people that were supporting Bulgaria while they were in Phoenix are not supporting Bulgaria now. Only people that are supporting Bulgaria here are countries like Ireland, Portugal and Canada in actions and people like Wallachian, ShadowMJ and some other players and absolutely no one other which again I find really surprising.
EDEN will need to chose sooner or latter and I really can't wait to see if they(HQ) will stay up to reputation of alliance or will they just sell it out...

Ariakis
Ariakis Day 1,565, 18:09

irishboy1967

Yes, when it comes to timing it's certainly the worst moment, but as for suspension in general there was enough reasons. We have various opinions of Turkey and it's kinda expected they can cause troubles, but on the other hand it's expected that EDEN member would be responsible. Tho it's a bit pointless to leave things as they are (telling BG to solve their issues with TR alone) without trying to reach solution.

As for the regions: I told it: either Bulgaria could ask for support or Country Council could offer it since it wasn't a secret that those regions would come handy for Bulgaria. Then Turkey would have to accept it or reject which would solve Bulgarian problems.

"Noone has forgotten this. But EDEN also gave a lot of grief to my people in the last couple of months. "

It works both ways. But despite HQ or Country Council decisions you had and have a lot of support from players. Yet many of your countrymen deemed whole EDEN as traitors or Turklovers.

"Maybe because it can destabilize the whole alliance like it just happened? But then again you were perfectly aware of the risks. "

You can't live your life without taking risks. Mistakes were done, but I doubt the decision was initially meant to drive Bulgaria out of EDEN or switch members. CPs saw that as an opportunity and made decision - and now as Lazy told they can't simply treat Turkey as useful tool that's not useful anymore and can be thrown away. Putting damage away we still can't forgot that Turkey kept their word about Israeli and Romanian regions.

irishbhoy1967
irishbhoy1967 Day 1,565, 18:39

@Ariakis

Well when it comes down to it, the only way I see forward is still the same as it was from day 1.

1- Bulgaria inform EDEN that it wants support to gain the regions they need in Iran.

2- EDEN should inform Turkey that they support Bulgaria's plans to get the regions they need in Iran.

3- Turkey can decide if it wants to co-operate or not.

4- If Turkey co-operate, and Bulgaria get the regions they need, then Bulgaria must officially recognise Turkey as a friend of EDEN and cease all aggression towards them.

The rest can be built on after that, and Turkey will win a lot more friends in EDEN countries if it shows this level of maturity. But that is the foundations that MUST be laid immediately or I'm afraid this situation will have gone past the point of no return.

What is stopping the Turkish Government coming out right now with a statement? Statement to say something along the lines of-

"Ok we'll give Bulgaria the regions in Iran, they are useless to us anyway. We hope that by showing maturity like this, that ALL the countries of EDEN will see that we are genuine about being good team players. If Bulgaria continue to show aggression towards us after this, then we have every confidence that the people of EDEN will see that we have done EVERYTHING in our power to co-operate and find common ground with Bulgaria."

This would give Turkey some moral ground to stand on. They cannot claim any moral ground while holding those regions in Iran that Bulgaria need.

For me, Turkey must cedes the regions now. Nothing less.

Ariakis
Ariakis Day 1,565, 18:44

ExZilYon
Turkey trial was canceled yesterday alongside with suspension of Bulgaria. So it's like both countries were punished.
EDEN accepted Bulgarian veto but so should Bulgaria accept the fact that EDEN and TERRA countries want to keep their relationships with Turkey.
But if Bulgaria wants to put their interests and demands over whole alliance then well - maybe it's best for them to leave this alliance.
Again: EDEN can't throw Turkey out just like that because that would be for sure a betrayal of some principles. Because this would mean that EDEN can't keep its word.

irishbhoy1967

First of all Country Council should gather and discuss election of new HQ. Also talk with Bulgaria and Turkey. Whilst reaching some conclusions inform new CPs, held a voting after 6th and then go on with solving this problem.

jaymzhtfld
jaymzhtfld Day 1,565, 18:51

irishbhoy1967

the thing that you can't understand is we don't care about those regions. it never been that regions. problem is their actions.

if romania wanted that regions, sure go ahead romania o/
if croatia, greece, finland etc wanted that regions, no problem bro it is yours.

bulgaria says that they will veto us forever, they don't want us in EDEN but they want regions for RENT.
i am pretty sure if you were turkey, you would't like that arrogant actions.

irishbhoy1967
irishbhoy1967 Day 1,565, 19:04

Dude, if you don't need the regions, just give them to Bulgaria, no rent, no nothing.

Do that and you will win over support of everyone. If you give them the regions and they continue acting in a hostile way, then they will lose support of their friends imo.

Until you do that though you will not get the support of everyone.

If for example, our closest ally Canada had regions in UK useless to them and refused to give them to us, I'd react badly.

You want everyone in EDEN to respect you, then give them the regions. You do not need them. Everything else will come after. And if Bulgaria still refuse to co-operate with you after that, they will have lost the respect of their friends. I don't think they want that.

Give them the regions now, no rent. That is the first step that needs to happen.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,565, 19:05

And I suspect that a part of intimidation towards Bulgaria was stating that they could be left on their own if they would go for Turkey. Which is sorta obvious since it's not likely they would join alliance which has country they vetoed before.
______

I find this interesting. What has kept BG to be in the alliance after everything has happened are the strong relations with players and certain friendly countries within the alliance. I believe BG can go to ONE if we want/have to and they will accept us for the exact same reason you wanted turkey in EDEN. MKD isn't a problem at all, in the last months despite being in-game enemies we managed to build friendly relations with them.

Frojla
Frojla Day 1,565, 19:28

ty Ariakis o7

thus spoke god
thus spoke god Day 1,565, 19:33

@irishbhoy: are you blind? you can read ebulgar media. They are racist and facist. They wants "babyboom" with "turk hate"

They have "turk complex" and sickly brain.

mr kouva
mr kouva Day 1,565, 19:34

This is the best article about this issue. o7

irishbhoy1967
irishbhoy1967 Day 1,565, 19:46

@thus spoke god

I have perfect sight thanks very much. What you say changes nothing. It does not make giving them the regions any less of a "smart idea". Do not sit there pointing at Bulgaria's faults if you simply wish to hold the regions out of spite. Just forget about Bulgaria for one minute please and just simply ask yourself one question-

Ceding these useless regions will win you many friends who, atm, are unsure about this whole situation and feel like they are stuck in the middle. What possible reason could you have for not wanting to win these people over?

If you do not give them the regions then you CANNOT claim you have done everything possible to sort this issue out. If you give them the regions, then no matter what Bulgaria do in the future, you can claim the moral high-ground. EDEN players will remember that you gave the regions and did everything you could to sort this out.

Give the regions now. If not then you cannot be seen to be fully committed to sorting this issue out.

Gara Tigin
Gara Tigin Day 1,565, 19:46

rude movements from bulgaria and we give them bonus ? oh yes.

maybe we can to put sth to the vote .. maybe referandum .

thus spoke god
thus spoke god Day 1,565, 19:51

@irishboy: do you remember rising of hitler? facism rise with tolerance.

bulgaria now small snake facist, but if you give a prize, they will be celebrate.

alexandrovic
alexandrovic Day 1,565, 19:53

Turkey is not any harm to EDEN nations when it request to join. But Bulgaria is not. and another important action is Israel attacked Turk&Cyprus nations. They would be planned held our regions. We give Israel regions come back when we captured Iran regions. They backfired us with bulgarian supports. Why would you say it?

irishbhoy1967
irishbhoy1967 Day 1,565, 20:02

If you give them the regions, you will immediately see my focus turn to Bulgaria and if they put one foot out of line I will be on your side.

But until you give them the regions, me, and many others simply cannot see that you have done everything in your power to sort this out. You have to make this step. If you do not give the regions you will never be an EDEN member.

I want to be able to support you. I appreciate that you have made efforts for EDEN so far. But if you do not go all the way then it can only be taken that you would prefer to sit on regions that are USELESS to you than to show the citizens of EDEN that you have done everything possible to sort this out.

Give them the regions and you will win the support of everyone. Are some useless regions more important to you than winning over the support of the people of the alliance you want to be part of?

alert ert
alert ert Day 1,565, 21:26

@irishbhoy1967
The point that you miss is when the first mistake was done. If Bulgaria had reported to EDEN that Turkey didn't accept to cede the lands this issue wouldn't come to this boil. However Bulgaria chose the worst option by backstabbing Turkey.

irishbhoy1967
irishbhoy1967 Day 1,565, 21:38

If everyone keeps focusing on who did what and when they did it and how many times they did it, then we will never get anywhere. Everyone will lose, including Turkey.

You are the one missing the point I am making. It is in TURKEY'S hands to win everyone over, RIGHT NOW, if it cedes the regions unconditionally. If you do that, you will have my support, and the support of many others who can help you.

Stop focusing on Bulgaria and what they did. Put Bulgaria completely out of your mind for a minute. Look forward. Do you want to win people like me over to your cause? If so, cede the regions. If you do not then we cannot support you for EDEN as you will be showing that you care more about holding USELESS regions than you do about citizens of EDEN such as myself.

irishbhoy1967
irishbhoy1967 Day 1,565, 21:53

Also, why were you doing 1 mill damage against Finland 3 days ago?

 
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