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A few times a year the leadership has the opportunity to make a decisions that has a massive effect on the mid-long term path of the country. Absolute cowards opt for a referendum given these situations.

Half the cabinet cant even make a properly motivated decision, let alone the common folk. Just get wiped by Germany if you're letting the multi's of van Spijck decide that you should join noobula.

1: This is not related to Germany whatsoever... It is about joining Nebula, or not joining an alliance for now.
2: Van Spijck does not have control of 50% of our population... And if you know of multies, report them.
3: I have seen that I&W was very much opposed to a referendum. On the other hand, I feel that a referendum is the only right way to involve all of our population.
4: I guess most of the government is in favour. But a referendum is a means to make decisions for a longer term. The government was not elected based on a program which said "We'll join Nebula". So honestly they do not have the right to decide. The same applies to congress.

Finally, I was not really planning to have a debate under this article...
But for completeness, I'll also link http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/vote-4-enl-vote-4-nebula--2530974/1/20 here. An article that would have already told you that this referendum was coming (in case you really didn't check the forum or have contact with e.g. odan).

1. for many people it will have an effect on deciding what to vote. that's why it is way too soon for any step like this. sentiment from the current war might drive some that would have voted no to vote yes.

2. gold buying, the thing protecting evil multie makers for years.

3. see 1.

@odan: the downside of waiting with the referendum is that Nebula gets tired of waiting for our answer, and we lose the opportunity.
So frankly, this is the moment to decide...

So people should ignore sentiment, and realise that in principle an alliance can get us into war, or protect us in case of a war. I.e. in exchange for some security, we will have to help them with their plans.

After 2 years of broken promises of joining an alliance, this is too soon?

Give us a break you had your chance.

Spreading miss information, not sure why?

What are you on about? You're as informed about the world as a shoe.

Garmr pls. 😛

First of all you admire people taking decisions that have massive effects, then you are ridiculing them because the proposed decisions aren't to your likings. Also, it's not the government who decides to have a referendum. You know very well how politics in eNL work and that no reign is successful here by acting like a dictator.

The cabinet consists of highly experienced members, the best of the best in the eNetherlands. I think it's quite insulting to the eNetherlands to just put them down like that. A referendum is quite benefiting to the people who are -not- the common folk. Hell, 1/3 of our population is not even going to vote on it, most of them 2 clickers, so I hardly see reason to complain about a referendum in this case as it will skew the results anyway.

short answer: no.

long answer: hell no.

Short reply: Arguments

Long reply: Where are the arguments?

lol

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I am not sure why this one is rushed. Why not take a couple of days more and publish some articles with the pros and cons. I only have seen an article from the private paper of our CP. Is that his personal idea or a government stance? I dont have trouble to decide but I think a big part of our country will...

We've been discussing on this elaborately for over a month now. It has been the most discussed subject in months. The article I made on request of CoC Djirtsdew, who wanted to have articles authored by ''both sides''. Sadly, those who oppose are yet to come with any constructive article (or arguments) against joining in an attempt to keep eNL exactly where it has been for years and frankly it disappoints me greatly that we have such conservatism going on in our country.

Its only recent in the public section. Before that only known by the happy few.

I'd say it was the worst kept ''secret'' in our history 😛

It was a prominent issue in the CP elections as well, regardless if it was official disclosed information.

True, but why not ask the MoI to publish some proper information? Its about an important matter. And most people are not fully informed in my opinion.

An article by the MoI is a good idea...
But they also have to be able to make clear what the arguments of both sides are.

In this case I have discovered that the arguments against are mainly variations on "Nebula is too weak an alliance for us". And some fake arguments like "I don't like MdR and Xibbard", which completely miss the point.

Yeah I would agree that the Government should have been more active about this whole issue, whether that be MoI or MoHA perhaps even both. They should be the ones to give Positive and Negative points for joining, not random citizens. Also it's not been a month yet, for the non Government people anyway.

What makes you trust the government above random citizens? Whoever is writing an article will (unconsciously) always write with a bias to his own opinion. I would love to see articles written by both proponents and opponents, listing their personal opinion on the matter...
That way you are certain that these articles are biased, but that only makes them better.

there are people in the government that are in both camps.

I'm sure MoI or MoHA can make points on both side without their own personal choice interfering. It can be as simple as 5 points on both side and be done with it. It's not hard.

As with all alliance joining decisions; present a list with pro's and con's as I asked in the past when we (tried to) join other alliances. The people wanting us to join certain alliances never were able/willing. We were member of a movement or prioritizing alliances, mainly pushed by some politicians that resided here a few months only. None of those really helped which confirms the fact there were no real pro's apart from "being member of something" or was it being member of something so we would aid certain other countries? I know we're a small force, but still.

Apart from that a few old players seem to be very narrow minded when it comes to alliances; When it doesn't involve nations they were accustomed to say 3-4 years ago they won't support it. And when it involves M de Ruyter, who happens to live in a nation who's a member of Nebula they will try to block it by default as well. That's not for the better good of eNL but a personal grudge and likely in favour of players most eNL have never heard off. Sadly that's no real surprise to me as to my taste they never really looked at the better good of eNL. The excuse used was always the same; It will help us in the long run as they have friends or connections out there. No doubt true, but it never really helped us. At least not in a visible way.

That said; The short struggle we had with Germany has shown Nebula more visible and active to aid us then I've ever seen of NSPP, banana or the alliances we were focusing on due to the view of several politicians. In fact, if I recall correct, it was the first time I've seen broader actions and calls to aid us ever since we were a member of EDEN. So Nebula could well be the best option we have had in years despite the big words from some formers CP's or (mainly older) players, not to mention the fact we are roughly equal strength and therefore have a bigger chance of an equal say which is rare.

Still I'd like to see a list of pro's and con's so I can make up my mind....

I feel any ''official'' list of pro's and con's would have some normative influence and people would inevitable complain about bias.

There is that risk indeed. But imo it would be possible to address it in a neutral way. Fact based preferably.

Well the problem is a lot of things aren´t exactly fact based. I for one am inclined to not even respond to pm´s from Nebula HQ, but I might if they get some decent people and a good reason. Like, not spamming us and beg to give a couple Indo regions to Australia.

Also, I cant help but feel (in part) addressed by not fixing an alliance. I acted in the greater good of the country by not putting it in them, because there would never be a say for NL in them, and it would end up just be me informing NL of what would happen. Didn't feel exactly right to do.

it = us

Sounds like a just decision to me. Beiong part of an alliance just for being part doesn't do the trick. Hence my remark of us being roughly equal strength of other members and therefore being more equal 😉

@Weekstrom: that's the biggest advantage of this "weak" alliance. Our strength is relevant to the alliance, with a share of 10-25% depending on which division you're considering.

The biggest downside seems to be that Japan has too much strength relative to the rest of the alliance, and that there are a couple of total weaklings...

See also egov4you, and set it to Month (for less noisy data):
http://www.egov4you.info/alliance/damage/32223a2d501f254a

As for a list of pros and cons, I as CoC have refrained from it on purpose. I've left it up to the biggest proponents and opponents to write pro and anti-articles.

So NoTie wrote a pro-story: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/2530974/1/20
And Legendardisch wrote an anti-story: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/2531177/1/20

'You are not authorised to read this forum'.

Can someone authorise me please - I submitted a request to join the burgers.

I don't know if you've already voted, but I just read your comment, and checked, and saw that you have been accepted to the eNL Burgers group.

Only a few people can accept those group requests, so it is not something that happens immediately.
And indeed without being in the eNL Burgers group you cannot see that part of the forum, nor most of the other interesting parts, like the congress section.

Thanks, I just saw I was accepted.

I didn't know I was supposed to do that, I've been joined on the forums for ages and thought it was boring ... now I realise it was because I could barely see anything!

Hopefully it will be better now

Cheers!

Can anyone give me permission on the forum so I can vote?
Forumname: Meduhk