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Thanks 'Brozil'... For nothing and being selfish...

Joh joh joh, can't believe...

What is the point? At the end WC should return to Brazil because of the agreement.

I supose you want join Eden because CoT is not enemy of Brazil. Right?

Is that what you recommend, Marcelo? Is that what you really want?

Well, in my opinion that 'agreement' sucks. What is the interpretation of the agreement really? Give Brazil your regions or be wiped? Fight for Brazil or be wiped? Brazil or wipe...

That article is just to feed oposition against brazilian-african agreement. That is all.

I've been feeding that for the past week. Maybe if Brazil wants to change that opinion they can change how they manage their players. (Oh right, they can't.) I like how the agreement is "only how Brazil says it is."

If South Africa does or tries anything to have fun in this game. "It's not our fault you can't just be good little pets and 2-click while we consume your country and don't let you do anything..."

Marcelo, it think Brazil has been doing it themselves. We dont need an article to point that out!

Brazil is our abusive husband and we're making up excuses for him.
Time to wake up and cut off his genitals.

DonVin passes Rico a bow of acid

I like how you guys tell Brazil to control its players yet half of you fight against them at each and every unsanctioned RW. Hypocrisy much? Should we start passing laws that "control our rogue players" as well?

You know Seisan, I fight in every RW because of the TP. Looks like you are too.
I fight when the battle is lost, most eSaffers I've seen on the battlefield does that too.

I guess it's not as much an issue of controlling your players as one of respect. If the Brazilians respected the "agreement" there would be no need to control players.

Voted Hard!!

LOL @ Marcelo, did you really ask what is the point? lol, how do i draw 110 Strength? Very first paragraph....if you would / could read.

"I fight when the battle is lost, most eSaffers I've seen on the battlefield does that too."

Doesn't change the fact you're going against the agreement.

" If the Brazilians respected the "agreement" there would be no need to control players."

And maybe if you guys would stop openly insulting them, they would respect us more. Everything you say is a two-way street. You can't expect one side to comply without the other doing the same.

You're confusing things Seisan. Fighting for eSA is not going against the agreement. Winning and unsanctioned RW is going against the agreement. Every single time that has happened it has been a third party responsible. Every single time.

The "open insults" as you call them, personally I'd call it questioning their commitment, began when they failed to follow up agreements made on a govt level.

Furthermore eSouth Africa has complied at every turn. We've done so swiftly whenever they asked us to. We put our congressionals at risk when they wanted regions back and we NE'd Indonesia to relieve Brazil last year.

What you are criticizing us for actually only applies to Brazil.

The agreement is not to win any RW for treaty regions - and if we do, to return them ASAP.
It is no crime to fight there as long as you don't take the bar over 50%. Its always been like that. And if it gets out of hand, we deploy eSAAF to fix it.

We comply 100%. Its why they keep paying the Gold.

"What you are criticizing us for actually only applies to Brazil."

No, it applies to you both. eSA for having unrealistic expectations and then claiming Brazil to be unreliable for something that IS completely out of their control. It is impossible, I will repeat this so you can understand, impossible, to have complete control over a population. Expecting Brazil to reign in their citizens is an unrealistic expectation that you will not find in any country ever.

I should also point out your stupidity for not understanding just how much a TW would have cost us. As V pointed out, the costs for Brazil to recover their regions, us recover from a wipe, and to then repay MPPs is too much. Your eagerness for a measly 110 strength would have destroyed eSA's funding. This is why you THINK and PLAN before just jumping at the first opportunity you get as an excuse to fight against Brazil.

We were hoping to have a TW with Uruguay, a TW which Brazil said "sure" to, you know, since we don't currently own the region that shares the border with them and we have to ask permission for anything but a TW vs Australia. So we went in thinking we would be able to accomplish this, not just to fight Brazil, we can do that any day of the week in RW's.

Which is also why we didn't NE Brazil. I'm glad you are happy 2-clicking and criticizing us for wanting more out of this game other than playing patty-cake with other political parties. Don't tell me that if I want more that I should move either, because I've heard that bullsh** too many times to count.

"We were hoping to have a TW with Uruguay, a TW which Brazil said "sure" to, you know-"

And then AFTER they said yes and then AFTER the RW failed, it came to light that such a TW would have destroyed our funding for everything. Again, this is why you plan this out beforehand because, if we had gone through with all of this, we would have been dirt poor.

Also, NRL, you have two choices in this game: politics and warfare. Our country is not suited for the latter.

And the former never happens here because, for the most part, every party wants the same thing. Welcome to eSA, its been this way for years.

We're at least trying... Not just complaining. Offering suggestions as opposed to dying in complacency.

You're suggestions don't work. Brazil is not the issue, people being lazy and complacent are. You guys also always plan short term and never long term. Like, for example, you have yet to explain your plan to make up for the gold deficit that would come from cutting our contract with Brazil. Do you have a plan in place for that?

What eSA needs is a boost in activity by means which make sense for our country. War will not be a viable option until population and activity is raised.

And you accomplish this by starting up party politics and actually giving people something to debate about that doesn't end in drama. You get people working as ambassadors, you get people writing articles, you get them participating in politics, you start recruitment efforts. These are all LONG TERM plans that will eventually result in the LONG TERM GOAL of a more populated and active eSA. We depend on Brazil because eSA can't stand on its own two feet and other countries view us as a burden.

Your goal should be to erase that mindset from our allies. Show to the world that eSA CAN accomplish something and stand on its own without faltering. Accomplishing that; however, will never happen until eSA gets a bigger and more active player base. You need to take baby steps before you start walking and running.

I mean look at our media. It has 5 articles during one of the times when it should be the most active. If anything we need to start taking the approach the military does with roll calls. We, apparently, need to start whipping people into doing their tasks and, if they fail to do so, you just need to drop and replace them. If there are no consequences put in place for inactivity, then the complacency will continue.

Or we can finally join EDEN as Marcos suggests and live in interesting times.

Or we can finally join EDEN as Marcos suggests and live in interesting times.

Your approach asks us to breed politician so that we can be warriors. Doesn't fly, friend. You cannot make a baby boom. Various people have tried for over two years and nada. The reason our media is full of trite and generally empty is because the basic problem has been analysed to death and it requires a solution out of our hands. And while this all happens we wither away. Gold does not buy babies.

Time to get rid of the abusive husband. How long do we still have to take this from Brazil? When is our Government going to wake up and face the fact that we have done it in the past and we can do it again. Our friendship has been slammed back at us quite a few time now while we just have to crawl at their feet and lick whatever they feed us. This is bullshit. Brazil has taken advantage of our trustworthiness and not given us one ounce back. In fact, they have proven they could not be trusted .

All they have is a lot of excuses of why they cannot contain their forces.
eSA WAKE UP. We are being used and with our governments approval

Voted !.

While I do understand the frustrating that is growing daily in this country, I have to agree with Seisan. It's no use moaning and groaning about the abusive husband who pays the rent, buys the food, pays for school fees and the nice cottage for your parents. Until eSA can "afford" to stand alone, she cannot and will not.
I am very disheartened as I tried desperately to make this game fun, tried desperately to get more people in, but I cannot grow eSA on my own.

Unless we want to trade one "abusive husband" for another, we have to work TOGETHER, build our resources, grow our population and army. There is no other way out of this

It seemed we had a second option and nobody of us wanted to repeat again the same history of NE with Brazil. But if we had proposed it to them from the beginning we may have not had this situation.

The cost for the country (wipe+MPP) is enormous, but it was invested on player's strength so it wasn't wasted.

Agreed. A simple Gold Calc.
110 Str is 2 days Training at 5.79G per citizen (2 days at full training)

Day 1,758 - 312 citizens (113 fought/actives) = 1,790.88 G (648.62 G) Gold training lost.

But I guess the 20G rent we get covers that.

It's not the 20g that is the problem or the issue, its the cash for the RW and MPP which is massive.
But you do raise another issue, how long can we go without the monthly contribution which is not just gold.

May I also remind you that eSA suffered a huge loss when 2 of our organizations were hacked?

3 MPPs = 30,000
RW = 10,000 (usually from private citizens) so actually free.

That's 60G.

When was these orgs hacked? Was it made public? because if it was I missed it, and I'm on here almost 24/7... Strange... Whose org was it?

What organizations were hacked Vanessa? Why do we have to find out this way?

@Seisan: I feel sorry for the way you've been hammered into complete submission. Your points are a circle jerk. We can try something different and maybe bite the dust or we could carry on and fade away for sure. eSA is approaching the 300 mark. When will we act? On 200? 100?

We all know we need Brazil in certain respects. There's no need to point that out to us. What you need to know is that our sandbox lifestyle is keeping us in place. Nothing can change as long as we have no future.

Wow, I was just reading the Wiki about 2009:
"On election day, Wizzie Don ran for president under the Brazillian PTO banner, against Gabriel Borien, the eSouth African candidate. The winner of this election would decide the fate of the nation. Unsurprisingly, the Free Africa party put their own candidate, Bazti, up as well, infuriating everyone besides a select few of their own members..."

"It was one of the longest days of eSouth African history, with people calling in favors from all around the world. International voters had been called in by Gabriel to vote him in. At the end of the day, Gabriel won the election. The vote was 320 to 318 votes. A quarter of a percent of a vote between Wizzie Don and Gabriel Borien. The Free Africa party had succeeded in almost destroying the nation, taking 55 votes that could have gone towards the future of the nation."

Do the math there. 320 + 318 + 55, I'm aware there was a huge PTO, but that's still almost 370 votes for the eSA candidate.

Since when do one equate freedom to a price, do what i do in RL, when i do not have the dough, i go without it. But it does not stop me from having ambitions greater than myself, nor does it make me go sit in a heap and simply accept that i do not have much and am not allowed to enjoy life. Also the fact that much money was spent does not mean much.

Imagine the Palestinians, "uh, nope we are poor, we give up, go ahead Israeli's oppress us" and we know that will not happen, they have leaders.

@Rico We should have acted on this a long time ago. We should have gotten people active the second our activity levels dropped off. If you're implying that the getting people active idea is one we're doing now then I have to laugh at you. There is jack all to promote activity and no consequences for inactivity. I should also point out that at least my ideas are viable in eSA's current state. Every proposal made to the contrary would only work if eSA was back in 2009.

The underlying concern is that Brazil's friendship is skin deep. If we refuse to rent out the regions by ending the contract - the assumption is that they will walk in and take what they want. SO convinced are we that we are paralysed.

This base assumption speaks volumes as to how we really see Brazil and the nagging suspicion we have about the true nature of the relationship.

We are prisoners in our own home since taking the cash is less painful than occupation.