To join or not to join?
Day 2,764, 01:56
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Published in Netherlands 
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by
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by Legendardisch
Note: This opinion is being expressed on my own as an individual, this is not the opinion of the Government, Congress or DemNL.
Currently there is a referendum on whether or not we should join Nebula. And I have voted no, because to me there are some uncertainties, first of all, why does Nebula suddenly want us the moment Kordak became CP. Why is the SSoFA of said alliance sending that message, which coincidently is Michiel De Ruyter, which has had his hands deep into our nation before leaving to Norway, then secondly their SSG is Xibbard, a known traitor to our nation, he shared PRIVATE discussions in the war with Norway with you geussed it, Norway, and between that incident and now we never hear sorry.
I mean why does Nebula suddenly want us? I don't see us gaining a lot, considering that we may hurt our allies, and the war with Germany has ended, they won't come back either because its too expensive and they have their own problems now. and yes Belgium is unstable but atleast we fixed a lot of sore wounds with them after the Mercenary/War debacle, and we even found friends in the United Kingdom. Sure they say that they understand our desire to be part of something for the sake of being part of something, but when it comes to war we will have to choose, I know this game is always changing, but having a pair of standard allies is nothing to be ashamed of really.
I mean really, Nebula only helped us to make us consider joining them, but they have never helped us before.
Sorry but I am skeptic about this whole thing, why of the sudden does Nebula want us.
Ofcourse what everybody votes is up to them, But I rather see some uncertainties being removed.
Currently there is a referendum on whether or not we should join Nebula. And I have voted no, because to me there are some uncertainties, first of all, why does Nebula suddenly want us the moment Kordak became CP. Why is the SSoFA of said alliance sending that message, which coincidently is Michiel De Ruyter, which has had his hands deep into our nation before leaving to Norway, then secondly their SSG is Xibbard, a known traitor to our nation, he shared PRIVATE discussions in the war with Norway with you geussed it, Norway, and between that incident and now we never hear sorry.
I mean why does Nebula suddenly want us? I don't see us gaining a lot, considering that we may hurt our allies, and the war with Germany has ended, they won't come back either because its too expensive and they have their own problems now. and yes Belgium is unstable but atleast we fixed a lot of sore wounds with them after the Mercenary/War debacle, and we even found friends in the United Kingdom. Sure they say that they understand our desire to be part of something for the sake of being part of something, but when it comes to war we will have to choose, I know this game is always changing, but having a pair of standard allies is nothing to be ashamed of really.
I mean really, Nebula only helped us to make us consider joining them, but they have never helped us before.
Sorry but I am skeptic about this whole thing, why of the sudden does Nebula want us.
Ofcourse what everybody votes is up to them, But I rather see some uncertainties being removed.
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If we join we will increase their strength by between 10% and 15% in all divisions.
http://www.egov4you.info/alliance/damage/32223a2d501f254a
That's really depressing.
-.- you think that solves everything? no
I am sorry what are you trying to solve?
Can you please stop acting like a fool and dumbass? you are way smarter than you have shown lately come on.
Even more. If you change to the overview of the past month, we're between 10 and 25%...
Imho that shows that it is an alliance of a power that is relevant to us. But what is this alliance's power based on? Let's look at each division's top 3.
Right; only on Japan, Australia, ourselves (mainly D2!) and maybe also Uruguay (D3) and Montenegro (D4).
Right, so that makes us and 4 other nations.
And Norway, the country involved in most of the discussion, is virtually non-existent except in D4.
The reason for the move is so MdR can have control of the eNL affairs again...
Sorry to call you out on it, but that's just pure slander. You know very well that I've been constructive about why we should take this opportunity and we've had interesting discussions about it at the forums, but in public you lower yourself to these so-called ''personal'' arguments which are not even relevant for 50% of the population as they don't live in the past.
For starters, MdR 😕= Nebula. Regardless of that, MdR and Nebula stood up for the eNetherlands, despite the petty problems of the past, while some of us stubbornly cling on to that past and drown the whole country in anger and hatred. I fought together with I&W against MdR when he was an eDutch citizen, yet I did move on and yet I do see opportunities which didn't get me any respect but to be ridiculously called a ''MdR minion''.
I think you missed the point. The article is asking why Norway and MdR is pushing this and I answered it. I do agree with this article as where were there "good will" before Kordak and company were in power. Also when MdR was exiled, eNL and eNorway relations was crap.
You are not operating in that manner yes but I think you are rushing votes like your emergency procedures. On that note I will criticize you on for I do not like blitzkrieg votes and referendums where the public has little to no facts. I will say people like Gen De La Ray is a minion of van Spjick but other people like djirtsdew and yourself are not.
I have no problems with Norway itself but I do have an issue with the timing and the urgency with the votes as well as the timing of such an invitation. I do not agree with Legendardisch all the time and at times I think he is crude and blunt. From the motivational perspective of MdR, I think he is on to something.
I have friends in Nebula like JRMiranda, Joshua, and others but I still do not want eNL in it due to the political nature of the invite as well as how this government rush through votes without a real discussion and debate. I do not think I have seen a referendum in other eCountries in which there are no public debates and information articles and meetings etc. This should be a week to 2 weeks discussion instead of just a vote...
More than 30 people have had the opportunity to debate on this for a few weeks. Hardly anything happened...
Am I right in summarising the arguments against as:
1: Nebula is a weak alliance: no improvement over no alliance
2: MdR wants control over eNL affairs?
I find all of these MdR arguments rather weak... But they keep popping up wherever I look in this discussion...
If NoTie also provides me with the two main arguments for joining, I can edit them into the CoC article, and send everyone a message...
I just use a in your face policy but thanks that you agree with me.
Djirts, somehow MdR will gain something, or rather want something for us when we join Nebula. And I can tell you thats not a good foresight, I know the guy, worked with him very closely, I know his policies and I know that he has unfinished business and we all know that he would like to get back to eNL to retake power. You may not like to see that but its a fact, and currently, all the facts I presented are in favor of my arguments. The arguments to join Nebula just simply don't add up to the negative aspects. We should be wary when a traitor and exile are in power of something.
😁 ''Djirts, somehow MdR will gain something, or rather want something for us when we join Nebula. And I can tell you thats not a good foresight, I know the guy, worked with him very closely, I know his policies and I know that he has unfinished business and we all know that he would like to get back to eNL to retake power.''
We don't need paranoia to rule the eNetherlands..
" I will say people like Gen De La Ray is a minion of van Spjick but other people like djirtsdew and yourself are not." LOL . What do you know you have been in E-Nl like 5 min.
I think you need to stop your comments here as by now we all know you are a minion of your German government.
Nebula wants you to have an landing strip in Europe. They showed several times that they cannot land via AS in a hostile nation. So.. Have fun with Nebula. Topkek
lol
What about their other European countries? Right... Somehow it seems weird that they should need us as landing strip...
I should've made things more clear: "mid europe".
Meaning? Nebula is a defensive alliance...
Regarding our neighbours:
- Belgium? We'll be signing a NAP with them with Nebula permission.
- the UK? Norway already is good neighbours with them, and we intend to stay that way as well, also signing a NAP.
- Hungary? That definitely sounds like a huge challenge
- Poland? Another huge challenge...
In other words I don't think we're the most suitable country for such attacks on our neighbours.
How is Nebula a defensive alliance djdirtsdew?
Can you explain how they launched 2 airstrikes into Belgium and one into Denmark in defense?
Offence is the best defence?
@Alex, offensive foreign policy is never justified in just war theory and most IR code of conduct. Also by default, you are admitting that NEBULA is an offensive minded alliance to secure "defense" and "security" by using aggressive and offensive policies at the expense of the weak and innocent like Denmark and Belgium.
Alex care to elaborate. Against what did these airstrikes defend Nebula?
Against boredom?
On a more serious note, the Belgium AS made no sense. And the Denmark AS might be interpreted as an pre-emptive strike against an aggressive neighbour (being Germark), who due to their aggression were directly neighbouring Norway.
Yeah, only that we always have a border with norway.
Right, so I should have said a pre-emptive strike against an aggressive neighbour who after having had success against a small nation might want to proceed with another small nation (who they already had a border with before)...
Oh: and thanks Legendardisch for providing us with your view. 🙂
If more people want to share their opinions, please go ahead and comment or write your own articles. I'm very happy we're finally having a big public debate on the matter. 😃
And about what that means for the referendum, maybe it was started too soon, but maybe it was necessary to trigger this debate...
I for one know that I've waited a few days before starting it. Just to make sure that people had had the time to prepare some articles...
In any case, if you are still not sure of your decision, just follow the debate, and make up your mind, but do vote before Wednesday evening (afternoon eRep time).
"And about what that means for the referendum, maybe it was started too soon, but maybe it was necessary to trigger this debate..."
I do think it is too soon and the gov did not provide us with any real information. This is especially true in the general public. There are no real public debates and information. Even Tonie's article itself "Vote 4 Nebula" is very bias. So people with little information as hinted by their CP to vote for Nebula is not the most honest politics imo. Also it is very problematic to have "debate" time when the vote is in session. There is no time for a meaningful debate that allows changes to the content of the vote. In the end, it forces people to say yes or no but not a real say on the issue at hand. This is why I think it is very problematic from a democratic aspect.
What a surprising article 😛
As an eAustralian citizen... don't join Nebula!
Its broken, falling apart and ineffective.
Broken -> Can't it just be fixed?
Falling Apart -> If countries actually leave, so can we...
Ineffective -> What effect are you hoping for?