The Minimum Wage. No good thing
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by Harpey-Demon
Gentle people, there are those who will have you believe that the idea of a high minimum wage is a necessary bonus to a wealthy liberal democracy, where all the children of the nation are cherished equally. They believe that the minimum is a guarantee against workers exploitation, against any form of wealthy players manipulation of the impoverished, badly skilled in this world. They imagine that the minimum wage is the barrier against which the capitalist bull work so renowned for its evils of excess, can simply splash against and allow the healthy survival of the many in the plentiful lowlands of the great beyond...
They are fools. Those congressmen who voted for the increase in the minimum wage up to three are the greatest enemy to the forces of good economic thinking, meritocracy, and perfect competition in this game. Whether it is their intention or not, they have unwittingly provided for a situation where small business owners are all pushed into a situation of untenability, of distressed fluidity due to the fact that q1 companies quite often can not afford to pay the amounts which the government in this state expect them to. They have brought about a situation where the likes of my own business has suddenly lost its work force mostly made up of new players, unskilled workers and others who are in turn forced into a position of humiliating poverty and government reliance. They and I are no better off due to the measures being forwarded by congressmen in this state, and that is an indictment of each and every representative in high office.
Altogether more sinister, are the implications of these actions. The only levels in society which are likely to benefit from these excessive whims are the largest companies which are now at such a level that they are untouchable and competition with them is utterly unobtainable. Because of the reality of price competition, no small company can compete on the dual plains of wage rate and sales price in our markets. The result and I hope you mark my words, will be monopoly or oligarchy.
There is one final possible outcome. That is the reality that state sponsored companies, state owned companies and state mandated companies, or simply those owned by the more experienced congressmen in this game will be the more likely to survive in this world.
On the back of these words, I will propose legislation which will see the reduction of the minimum wage back to 1IEP. I do this with the firm intention of preventing oligarchy by larger corporations and state companies, but also with the hope of an economy based off true liberal principles of perfect competition and no barriers of entry into the market. I do this with the intention of seeing new members offered a choice of employment in a wide range of companies when they begin with this world, I do this finally, as I believe that the raising of wages to artificial rates is what I deem primarily responsible for the huge rise in the difference between gold and the IEP in the past few months. Nobody wants to return to 170 IEP/1 Gold.
I call on all liberal and right minded congress men to support this measure, and to vote for a reduction to the minimum wage, and to save small business in this, our little country.
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How was your business making any money employing unskilled workers? They never produce enough. That is why we have government companies to train them to skill three at the highest and then we release them into the work force. Then you can higher them. They actually produce more for what they are paid and companies will actually bring in profits.
I do suggest more talks on the forums about this, but I wouldn't consider this article the "discussion area" for your proposal.
I was the one who proposed the minimum wage be raised to 3 IEP and I did not do it because I taught the "minimum wage is the barrier against which the capitalist bull work so renowned for its evils of excess,". I did so for reasons which can be found here: http://forum.erepublik-ie.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=490 (Take note this is where proposals are meant to discussed not in a newspaper article).
If your business cannot afford to employ workers for more than 3 IEP, quite frankly I suggest you put it up for sale. Before the minimum wage was raised you were one of the few who got away with tricking workers into working for you instead of the State for 5 IEP. That's right 5 IEP and guess what they are still being offered that so I don't know what you are basing this poverty rant on.
Oh yes we are all at the mercy of the big evil companies now. Now who sounds foolish. Raising the minimum wage by no means drives small companies into the ground. That's an irrational notion. I have a small company and I can honestly say the minimum wage hasn't affected me at all because I have the common sense not to employ low skilled workers. State companies makes it difficult to employ low skilled workers not the minimum wage being 3 IEP.
You think raising the minimum wage to 3 IEP is going to bring us back to 170 IEP/1 Gold? Please elaborate how this will happen? You are the third person I asked how will raising the minimum wage by 2 IEP affect inflation and I still haven't gotten an answer. Quite frankly it won't. I got a proposal through to lower the citizen fee, that affects inflation (positively) this proposal won't.
You have a wishy washy real life economic theoretical debate mixed in with unfounded eRepublik notions. Gentle Sir, I voted no to your proposal. By the way, in real life I am a right wing libertarian but this is eRepublik, economic philosophies hold little to no bearing here.
Hey, you want to work in my company for 1 iep?
It is probably not the minimum wage thats the problem with your business. If you start a business in Ireland knowing that you can not compete with higher level companies and then hire a lot of unskilled workers what do you expect?
The Dail has a standing practice of voting "no" on all proposals that have not been submitted for discussion on the forums. Please follow this procedure.
Ok I made my decision. No. Partially because this was not discussed on the forums and also because I don't believe you know what the hell your talking about. The conclusions you have come to don't make any sense so this leaves me to believe you don't have much of an economic background to be able to give an opinion on the minimum wage.
i agree @ pdiddy i think this is madness we need to sort out these congressmen most of them dont understand economic that well
You pay your workers less than 3IEP? Good God there's a reason why we keep the bulwalk up to get rid of you exploiters.....
I voted yes because I am agaisnt any minimum wage in the first place and always have been.
Actually having the minimum wage at the cost of q1 food is prudent, especially if the goverment has 'training industries' for all the different parts of the industries.
As a baseline for prices of products the minimum wage is good.
It is just that the profit hoarding (because of the low taxes in the imports of national resources) that skewes the economy and makes it nonviable for people starting businesses.
Then throw into the mix the insane stockpiles that the more established companies have and you have a nice 'soup'.
I think that is the first time I have seen a proposal tie. 15 to 15, WOW.
@Patton, normally I am too, but tbh it does stop the exploiters like this guy which was one of the goals or proposing the minimum wage to 3 and why I supported it.
In response to this debate, I am delighted that "such a poorly though out" proposal should be receive such support as in half.
The arguments used by individuals against this proposal are utterly ludicrous, fanciful and utterly founded in their own egotistical belief in a state controlled paradise.
To those who referred to my qualification (student of economics in RL) to speak on these economic matters, I question your very position in this game. I made it perfectly clear that all of my arguments were entirely based in ill founded theory and a lack of concern for those on the ground, in various fields of business. You are clearly so very quick to defend and insult that I would have to say that your very presence in congress is a simple exercise in convention, and sweaty uselessness, while the citizens at large go ill treated. Shame on each of you for that.
Finally, to actually suggest that you would vote against a first time congressman's proposal, based more on where his proposal is debated shows the futility of all of this. Does not the media have as much of a role in public debate, public to see, and more accessible by a long shot
I have no time for public companies. I have no time for the conventions of individuals in this game. I believe rules are there to be used and twisted as you will. That is why I forwarded a bill allowing for people to operate in small business, and offer them the choice of hiring new players freeing up more of the game to a wider range of individuals. The state has no right to operate in the commercial sectors when there are private citizens out there ready to do it instead.
There is a cozy relationship afoot. The names of some people above would do well to remember that their monopolising of aspects of the game to suit themselves is farcical and is killing much of the experience of newer citizens.
Re. the idea that minimum wage effects gold, it is the most plain argument to be had. Most players as a proportion of active individuals playing here per day are first timers. They arrive, get hired and collect a wage for a few days before going inactive, while very few stay on for long.
The raise in wages by 2IEP or more causes money to be drawn from the money supply therefore adding to scarcity. That causes less IEP in circulation, and consequently, the price of IEP in gold goes up. It is quite a simple and reasonable suggestion, and I can't honestly see how you haven't encountered it as of yet.
"Finally, to actually suggest that you would vote against a first time congressman's proposal, based more on where his proposal is debated shows the futility of all of this. Does not the media have as much of a role in public debate, public to see, and more accessible by a long shot"
The media does indeed play a role; but a separate one. In RL, would you expect to see bills proposed for the parliament in the national press? Of course not; countries would collapse under the weight of sheer (probably contradictory) legislation. The media opens up debate to the public, which a good member of congress will listen to and take on board. The Dáil, on the other hand, is the forum for legislation, proposed and discussed by the people's elected representatives. This is the point of parliamentary democracy. I personally don't think it's unreasonable to reject a proposal which goes against the general rules of the congress.
"utterly founded in their own egotistical belief in a state controlled paradise." I don't think the people who voted no are egotistical, they believe in following rules and do not believe low skilled workers should be exploited. People who just ignore the rules and think that private companies have some right to employ citizens for less 3 IEP are more egotistical in my opinion. I do not believe in a State controlled paradise, raising the minimum wage to 3 IEP does not give the State anymore control that it already had.
I never intended to insult whatever economic credentials you may have Harpey (I am not the one speaking in a condescending tone)however I think your argument is drawing on real life taught (granted with exaggerated false claims thrown in) and it has little to no bearing here.
Whether you want to or not I suggest you adhere to Dáil rules. No, the media is not an adequate place to have a Dáil discussion.
"I have no time for public companies." Explain to me how hundreds of low skilled workers are going to be employed without State companies?
"killing much of the experience of newer citizens." By stopping them from being exploited by private companies?
"The raise in wages by 2IEP or more causes money to be drawn from the money supply therefore adding to scarcity." What money supply are you referring to? The money supply of the few private companies who tried to exploit new citizens? If a private company cannot afford to employ workers for 3 IEP I suggest they change their theory of business.
Re. Money Supply Severin, companies have nothing to do with money supply. By money supply I mean the amount of money in a state. By scarcity of said money, I refer to the fact that there is not an infinite amount of money in supply, otherwise money would have no value. My argument is that new players are numerous and impacting enough as to have an impact on the amount of money out there, meaning a real impact on the price of gold vs. IEP.
Finally, you have referred to the idea that the state owned companies are the only way in which to train citizens. I joined this game, worked for private companies right through and earned enough to by a company, beit at a reduced rate. I am small fish and not a big company, and in order for my wage payments to remain compedidive across the board, what ever the skill, there must be no floor on wage payments, as that only lends a false reality to the wage market. It has a knock on effect right through all wage scales, and is no good thing as I have maintained from the beginning.
Finally, companies can pay players how ever much they want. If they wish to be higher or lower, that's fine, and it allows workers to pick and choose companies to work for themselves. The state does not need to regulate payment of wages.
Real world, EWorld, it doesn't matter, fundemental laws of economics are the same. There is no point in saying that people think differently either inside of out. The basic human behavior remains the same, meaning that the laws of economics remain the same. State owned companies should not be apart of this entity. It falsifies the nature of the game.
What does the State money supply have to do with the minimum wage? The State was already and still is employing citizens for more than the minimum wage.
When you were a new citizen there were only a few hundred citizens in eIreland, totally different situation. There are thousands of citizens now and they are simply not enough private companies to keep all these citizens employed.
eRepublik economics is based on real life but is not, by no means, fundamentally the same as real life. "State owned companies should not be apart of this entity" I think almost everybody in eIreland would disagree with that.
I am no longer continuing this debate here. If you want to debate it further, I suggest doing so on the forum.