The forum game and how it is played
Day 2,044, 19:41
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Published in Netherlands 
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by
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by FrankieVB
This article is intended to throw some light (my light) on what is going on in eNetherlands. Because things have gone way too far and eNetherlands is on the brink of selfdestruction. There is no glory in the current fight for power, there is only the intent to hurt, to hurt people and in the end it will hurt our country, possibly beyond repair. This needs to stop!
Last week CP Van Spijck, after just one accusation and offence too many, decided it was time for a serious signal. So he decided to stop visiting our forums. He decided to play the game, but not play the forum game any more. And let ‘them’ have their precious playground, called enetherlands.nl.
The people he referred to didn’t get the message. They didn’t take their responsibility for the situation and didn’t recognize that they had indeed gone too far. On the contrary, they smelt blood. Now that Van Spijck - according to them - had overstepped himself, there was serious ground for impeachment.
First, who are ‘they’? The key players here are:
- ElGorro, forum admin, CoC and runner up in the past CP elections, known archenemy of Van Spijck, left GPN and the Van Spijck II administration after a disagreement;
- Odan, CoC-wannabe who was many times voted down by GPN because of the general sense of him being biased (judge for yourself later on).
- Marnix Maximus, dCoC, has a history with GPN for an (excused for) motion of no confidence and some personal issues with van Spijck;
- Tim Veltkamp, in general against anything GPN or Van Spijck says, specific reasons unknown;
The key roles
Positions of power are: the forum admins; the CoC and dCoC (Chairman of Congress) with the right to open, lock and cut in - and thus heavily influence - debate topics; Congress members who can start votes and vote themselves. Then there is a range of sidekicks, helping out here and there whenever it is needed.
What went down the past 24 hours?
1. In an attempt to get to Van Spijck, Odan started a motion of no confidence against the whole government, immediately followed by votes ‘yes’ from ElGorro and Tim Veltkamp
2. ElGorro, CoC, sent no notification of the vote to the Congress members who were likely to vote against (as was custom and was recently done for far less important votes)
3. The motion passed with 6 out of 17 Congress men totally unaware of the vote.
4. The day prior to the vote a UNP congress man was replaced with Marnix Maximus who is US citizen and is (or was until today) a member of the American Military Party, (accepted without any kind of debate). He had the decisive vote, reaching the majority of 5 votes against 4 (+ 2 abstain)
5. Minutes after the motion passed ElGorro opened a topic on forum in the government section, proclaiming ElGorro III.
6. Right after that he opened a new topic for replacement of himself as CoC, after which Marnix Maximus and Odan applied.
Bummer…
They only realized afterwards that the only effect of these actions would be that the whole government was sent home except for the CP who cannot be impeached since we have no ingame Congress. Smart thinking, guys! And at best, if the people would accept a coup d’état for this reason alone, we’d end up with an ingame CP and cabinet and/or another forum CP with a shadow cabinet.
Now, what a fine message to send out to the international e-world!
So, are they really biased? Judge for yourself
- Can a Congress member that becomes CP be replaced, because it means the loss of a forum vote? No, ingame mechanics don’t allow this.(and it would be in favour of GPN)
- Can a Congress member be replaced by a foreigner, even if he is member of a foreign political party? No, ingame mechanics don’t allow this. (But we’ll do it anyway, he is on our side, right?)
- Start an impeachment on forum without having an ingame congress? No, ingame mechanics don’t allow this. (But we’ll do it anyway, he is our enemy, right?)
- If the ingame CP gets a motion against him, his runner up automatically becomes the new CP? Sure, because that is how game mechanics work (and he is on our side, right?)
This is how the forum game is played. If we want to re-unite as a country this needs to stop now. For the survival of the eNetherlands.
FrankieVB
Last week CP Van Spijck, after just one accusation and offence too many, decided it was time for a serious signal. So he decided to stop visiting our forums. He decided to play the game, but not play the forum game any more. And let ‘them’ have their precious playground, called enetherlands.nl.
The people he referred to didn’t get the message. They didn’t take their responsibility for the situation and didn’t recognize that they had indeed gone too far. On the contrary, they smelt blood. Now that Van Spijck - according to them - had overstepped himself, there was serious ground for impeachment.
First, who are ‘they’? The key players here are:
- ElGorro, forum admin, CoC and runner up in the past CP elections, known archenemy of Van Spijck, left GPN and the Van Spijck II administration after a disagreement;
- Odan, CoC-wannabe who was many times voted down by GPN because of the general sense of him being biased (judge for yourself later on).
- Marnix Maximus, dCoC, has a history with GPN for an (excused for) motion of no confidence and some personal issues with van Spijck;
- Tim Veltkamp, in general against anything GPN or Van Spijck says, specific reasons unknown;
The key roles
Positions of power are: the forum admins; the CoC and dCoC (Chairman of Congress) with the right to open, lock and cut in - and thus heavily influence - debate topics; Congress members who can start votes and vote themselves. Then there is a range of sidekicks, helping out here and there whenever it is needed.
What went down the past 24 hours?
1. In an attempt to get to Van Spijck, Odan started a motion of no confidence against the whole government, immediately followed by votes ‘yes’ from ElGorro and Tim Veltkamp
2. ElGorro, CoC, sent no notification of the vote to the Congress members who were likely to vote against (as was custom and was recently done for far less important votes)
3. The motion passed with 6 out of 17 Congress men totally unaware of the vote.
4. The day prior to the vote a UNP congress man was replaced with Marnix Maximus who is US citizen and is (or was until today) a member of the American Military Party, (accepted without any kind of debate). He had the decisive vote, reaching the majority of 5 votes against 4 (+ 2 abstain)
5. Minutes after the motion passed ElGorro opened a topic on forum in the government section, proclaiming ElGorro III.
6. Right after that he opened a new topic for replacement of himself as CoC, after which Marnix Maximus and Odan applied.
Bummer…
They only realized afterwards that the only effect of these actions would be that the whole government was sent home except for the CP who cannot be impeached since we have no ingame Congress. Smart thinking, guys! And at best, if the people would accept a coup d’état for this reason alone, we’d end up with an ingame CP and cabinet and/or another forum CP with a shadow cabinet.
Now, what a fine message to send out to the international e-world!
So, are they really biased? Judge for yourself
- Can a Congress member that becomes CP be replaced, because it means the loss of a forum vote? No, ingame mechanics don’t allow this.(and it would be in favour of GPN)
- Can a Congress member be replaced by a foreigner, even if he is member of a foreign political party? No, ingame mechanics don’t allow this. (But we’ll do it anyway, he is on our side, right?)
- Start an impeachment on forum without having an ingame congress? No, ingame mechanics don’t allow this. (But we’ll do it anyway, he is our enemy, right?)
- If the ingame CP gets a motion against him, his runner up automatically becomes the new CP? Sure, because that is how game mechanics work (and he is on our side, right?)
This is how the forum game is played. If we want to re-unite as a country this needs to stop now. For the survival of the eNetherlands.
FrankieVB
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Comments
Yep this article will definitely help re-unite the country. inb4 shitstorm btw
Once again its just another "GPN is always right, I&W and DemNL is evil" article.
Also;
- If you really want to not sound biased yourself you should have included what GPN did wrong (but why would you, they're on your side right?)
- Lack of communication from our government, which pretty much all started this (but why include this, they're on your side)
- Broken promises by our government (but who cares right?)
- Spending more and more money in useless RWs (but GPN still believes we have a chance)
Look, him refusing (and some other members of government) visiting the forum was just one of many things that started the MoNC.
"2. ElGorro, CoC, sent no notification of the vote to the Congress members"
- He never made the promise to do so nor is it part of a law, and its not hard to check the forum once a day or at least once every 48 hours, if it REALLY is that hard to do don't be a congress member.
But anyway the root of this whole problem is communication from our government to both congress and people not from GPN, of which there is little to no. Start there and it will get better over time.
This article isn't meant to re-unite eNetherlands but to expose the role certain people played in driving the country close to the abyss. And please note that nowhere did I mention I&W and DemNL because I doubt most members of these parties are even aware of what is going on. Unless of course you wish to state that you in fact are I&W and ElGorro is DemNL...
As for all the things GPN did wrong - acoording to you - that is what elections are for, to give citizens the opportunity to weigh the facts and make a better choice next time.
Concerning notifying Congress members of the vote not being part of the law, quite a few of the actions of this coupe aren't in the law either. So are you trying to justify yet another double standard here?
So you say GPN is without faults? Come on, give me a break. GPN is the party with the inactive Congress Members. A CoC isnt obliged to send out personal messages if people need to vote. A CoC isnt a babysitter. People who got the responsibility to be in Congress, should be responsible enough to log in to the forum regulary. It's not the fault of the CoC that some of the Members of Congress dont wish to be on the forum on a daily base.
Tell me what is not in accordance with the law?
1: Any CM is free to start a Motion of No Confidence at any time he likes
2: Sending PMs is completely legal (I don't see proof this was done, but in any case, it's legal)
3: Van Spijck was probably aware of the vote as Zeeuwsmeisje did vote.
4: Replacing inactive CMs by other eNL citizens is allowed, since the last referendum
5: By law, as soon as the motion passed, Van Spijck was no longer CP, and his gov was fired
6: As soon as the CoC gets a function in the government, a new CoC has to be chosen. All congress members can apply in the first 24 hours.
7: A vote to revoke the motion of no confidence against Van Spijck VIII was started by Zeeuwsmeisje
8: This vote was allowed to finish by the CoC, ElGorro, and we're all accepting the results
The things of this list (same numbering as your article) that are not in accordance with the lawbook are numbers 7 and 8, which you didn't mention in your article.
Strangely enough these points are not anti-GPN, but instead pro-GPN/pro-Van Spijck VIII.
I guess that also proves you're telling a one-sided story here, and are not interested in the truth.
Your comment mystifies me on several points but there's one part I will go into. You're conveniently omitting that the vote to revoke the motion of no confidence was declared illegal by ElGorro on false grounds and it took strong pressure of many people before he rectified this. So contrary to the image you're trying to create, your point 8 is no credit to ElGorro at all.
If I may quote your great leader: "blablabla, just BS."
Regarding your comment regarding point 8, I'll quote myself:
"According to our lawbook the vote was illegal. Only in-game votes can be held on the 25th, and only through the quickened emergency procedure.
So what ElGorro did in this case (after deliberation with amongs others Weekstrom), was ignore the lawbook, probably for the very reason that we were already "out of book", and due to this had no gov already for over a day, making this an type of emergency that the lawbook could not possibly have forseen."
So let's call that point 9 then, also an act not in accordance with the lawbook and pro-Van Spijck VIII. So so far that's 3 breaches of the lawbook and all of them pro-Van Spijck VIII. You cannot state that ElGorro is trying to undermine this government.
Wow, no "all lies and slander" this time?
Just one side of the story is posted here. Believe what you want to believe. o/
Or verify the facts in the forum....
Mudslapping 🙂
That's a strange way of thinking, to consider verifying facts as mudslapping...
Indeed, verify the facts in the forum.
Don't believe a word written in this article, before you for example read our lawbook.
Well, that's what I said isn't it? Verify the facts... so in the end we totally agree after all...
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Very one sided article
no vote, sorry
There is never 1 wrong or right, instead of fighting each other we should fight the Pink. Said that before, but it is always the same story with the same people.
The problems between van Spijck are over. I am doing my best to keep me outside all the mudslapping, So please leave our past problems.
Yes I was member of AMP. And do you know why? No you don't. Do you know what is happening in the eUSA politics? eUSA is being PTO'ed by serbs. The eUSA goverment started an action to PTO the PTO'ed party to the good side. I helped with that. Then they raised a new party and they came into the top 5. I joined AMP to give AMP more members so AFA would stay outside top 5 partys, but it didn't succeed. So is it wrong to help another country with their ATO?
And yes I forgot to send message to remind the congres. BUT please tell also that I forgot the whole vote. Someone reminded me in the last half hour. I thougt it was pointless to send an message then. And not only voting is a job for the CM's. Also discussing. And I didn't saw you there, if I have a good memory. The message is for CM's that are having busy times not for lazy CM's that only want to vote.
And please show me where dCoC or CoC misbused their powers.
This article really won't help for a more united netherlands.
I have no issues with you being a US citizen nor with your membership of a foreign political party. I do hsve issues though with you, a foreign citizen, being appointed a member of Dutch Congress and now acting as the CoC of Dutch Congress. Ingame mechanics doesn't allow this - the exact reason why ElGorro refused replacement of van Spijcks seat in congress after he was elected CP. So this is yet another example of ElGorro's (ab)use of his position as CoC.
Again lies. Ive made that decision based on the Law. If Congress disagreed with that, a simple vote was enough.
You are only mudslapping. I am going to ignore you 🙂
The law says nothing about (dis)allowing foreign citizens into Dutch Congress. So you can't have made that decision based on the law,
I think Elgorro means that the constitution says that expatriats, HC's and that kind of groups are equal as ingame people of enetherlands and that they have the same rights.
😁 jup
Biased article. No vote.
It has been done democratically anyway, all the rules were followed. Congress had the right to vote on this, but some of the members didn't, including you. Congress members could have prevented this from happening, but they were inactive, so please don't go blaming others but yourself.
I believe it is necessary that this kind of games on forum stops indeed. Hiding behind or abusing the Law, instead of trying to act according to the intent of the Law. Again today, a vote to revoke the motion was stopped because the Law says we cannot start a vote on the 25th. That is the day a new Congress is elected. There is no new Congress elected, so again a farce. 8 people wanted to revoke the motion and solve this mess, 2 abstained and ElGorro, Odan and Tim Veltkamp were the only onces not admitting it never should have happened.
Maybe in detail some things need to be set straight and this article is of course biased. It nowhere states anything on the role of GPN - we are not subject in this article, feel free to write your own. It just reveals what length people are willing to go through to get what they want. Let's assume in the best interest of the eNL, although it makes we wonder if you can say that with a straight face after seeing they wanted to paralyze the country by sending home and entire gov.
Its correct I dont have faith in the current President. Thats the reason why I voted that. Last time I checked I had the right to vote the way I want. Trying to install van Spijck as Dictator (as proposed by GPN Member(s?) is the way.... If you succeed with that, you wont have people left voting against.
And how many citizens do you think have faith in you after the stunts you pulled?
So you agree on the dictator proposal?
Typical ElGorro style: make a completely unrelated assumption and no doubt it will be later presented as a fact.
So you dont want to give an answer?
Your questions are totally unrelated to either ZM's or my statements so their purpose is merely to diffuse and deflect. Therefor I will simply ignore them.
I know enough
You don't know anything except that I refuse to be baited.
sure
I won't play the forum game, either.
no you would rather have a dictator.
Our forum congress keeps the political powers divided. In-game mechanics would give full power to the CP of a country without congress.
Our constitution and lawbook (see forum) disagrees with in-game mechanics, and keeps a forum congress in these hard times.
"- Can a Congress member be replaced by a foreigner, even if he is member of a foreign political party? No, ingame mechanics don’t allow this. (But we’ll do it anyway, he is on our side, right?)"
Marnix is an official aspirant member of UNP and he is one of our most active members. So his loyalty is still in eNL
This is not about Marnix as a person, I have nothing against him, This is about how he - a foreign citizen - was appointed as a member of Dutch Congress even though ingame mechanics don't allow it - the reason why ElGorro refused replacement of van Spijcks seat in congress after he was elected CP. So this is yet another example of ElGorro's (ab)use of his position as CoC; he bends the rules to suit his personal interests.
true, but it seems FrankieVB doesn't consider him an eNL citizen. although our constitution says otherwise.
http://www.erepublik.com/en/citizen/profile/5905705
It clearly says USA citizen. Ingame mechanics (ElGorro's specialty) don't allow foreign citizens to be appointed in Congress.
So in this case Dutch law precedes ingame mechanics but in other cases it doesn't?
Read our constitution. I believe first line 🙂
Anyone with legal in-game citizenship, honorary citizenship, Expatriate status or Foreign residents of the eNetherlands is considered a citizen of the eNetherlands.
Please stop the slander
slander n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed.
Truth can not be slander.
"So this is yet another example of ElGorro's (ab)use of his position as CoC; he bends the rules to suit his personal interests."
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I'd say that posting you would have liked to have a last term as CP before you left the game, then organising a coupe d'etat by abusing your position as CoC and then declaring ElGorro III in power does point to strong personal interests...
True I would like to finish with a CP term. But not at all cost. I even gave Congress the space to revoke their choice.