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I'm not sure you know but I've only been back for about a month, and I've spent that time running a program designed to retain new players and engage them in the political process. I've become PP and literally put every new player possible at the top of the congressional list.

You talk about inspiring activity; I've been trying to do exactly that.

And this emphasis on new players is going to energize the majority that have given up on politics? Really?

why do the eUK needs democracy when it has TUP overlords for ever?

why does the eUK need democracy when it has TUP overlords for ever?

That is to be commended. The problem is that there are fewer and fewer "new" players to target nowadays, and my main cause for concern with your programme is the same gripe I had about the NHS - there's a "cut off" point which leaves those beyond it left in a kind of limbo, especially if there is little or no advice publically offered on how to become self sufficient. That's been the case for years, and I might once more suggest that such schemes not be limited to "new" players, but to all who apply, perhaps on a sliding scale.

That's a very good point about the NHS - I suggested reform several times - (though not of the nature you suggest here), but if the people running it don't want to change there's nothing I can do.

The issue isn't about getting new people into Congress, it's to do with Congress not being respected as an institution - ignored and berated for so long that it has become the norm that they do nothing. As such, they're elected to do nothing, and they don't need to be active or good.

What a PP would need to do is run CP candidates that will take Congress seriously. It demands a culture shift, not a membership shift. And it won't be fixed by one PP alone!

Smack yourself for how you used literally.

HAIL DICTATORSHIP THE UK

Well I’ve been one of your strongest supporters over the years, but on this I must disagree. TUP has for as long as I’ve been involved always welcomed and encouraged new players and in recent months since the return of some of the old guard there has been a marked improvement. I would suggest people look more closely at some of the other parties who continually run the same old faces each month. I spotted a comment earlier from one Congressman who has no fewer than 35, yes 35 Congress medals in just 4 years who stated earlier:-

”As a congressman, I have 0 clue what we actually did that was 100% necessary. Or even more than 5% necessary, really. Game mechanics wise everything can easily be kept afloat without them. Bar the impeachment proposals, we were a rubber stamping agency for the man in charge.”

There’s also this term “Mongress” that keeps getting floated around. I still have no idea what it means but if people can’t even take the office they’ve been elected to seriously by calling it by its real name then why should I bother with such people.

The reality is very little can be done by a few of us when that is the attitude of many. I gave up running for Congress several months before I left for the eUS because there is no point in trying to discuss anything constructively with the kind of people who now dominate Congress from some parties.

As I have mentioned in my comment to TK, I don't think it is about who you run for Congress, it is all about how Congress is perceived, by the public but most significantly by our presidents. People are elected to a job made increasingly moot, and unless they get willing to impeach it won't change. It is well and good complaining they don't do enough, but when they are expected to rubber stamp a top down shift in attitude is needed, rather than a bottom up one.

But who is responsible for the perception of Congress if not the people who continually denigrate it. I spent 6 months in the eUS and it's a real culture shock to see just how things should be done in Congress - I don't think a lot of people in the eUK realise just how bad the eUK is and it’s quite ironic that the people who have been complaining about the eUK in recent months from UKPP are the ones who’ve done most damage. The best and most constructive Congress we had was during the Constitutional Dictatorship, where people didn’t get the Gold and couldn’t just push buttons randomly like a bunch of 5 year olds.

That's why the culture of governance needs to change. We need a good stock of CP's who will treat congress they way they should be, as far as I am concerned that is how we will create the impetus to have good Congressmen, and the rest will follow. However, it's all to easy to slip into bad habits. PP's and Congressmen will have to police them in that regard. I don't see any other way of achieving it other than diligence

A good stock of CP's is going to be very hard to come by because resources are very limited and each brings to the table their own individual skills. I still think Rathena was one of our best CP's for the simple reason she was able to bring everything to Congress and discuss everything sensibly and openly with Congress.

Discussion just slows down things. What is there to discuss, if the CP is a person who knows what he wants. Has a plan, does it, goodbye. And freaking eUS Congress, took them a month to discuss should they give us back the tax money...ffs.

Or in the words of the eUS CP to me at that time: "Sorry, my Congress is really slow"

Oh and I would reiterate that isn't really aimed at TUP. It's been like this for years and as such has made this sort of coup inevitable.

Yet another TUP self congratulation about new players, it's a pity you missed the point of the article.

If you're going to target me specifically at least name me, smh.

I don’t know if you are talking to me but you’re actually the best congressmen as far as I am concerned - simply because you’re the only one willing to say that nothing useful is going on. You should be thanked for letting the public know

I was talking to Paul fam dw

I suspect this will be the only well reasoned article on the matter where the vast majority respect the writer and isn't going to lead to dismissal on the basis of the messenger.

I see comments from people here about encouraging new players? But what about encouraging the old players ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, as a longtime enemy of Congress, I think there wasn't enough autocracy from other CPs 😁 People generally tried to get Congress involved, but the UK Congress is mostly useless and posts consist of moralfaging and when there is actually a serious subject, there are only a few (or sometimes none) people saying something. And I'm not talking about now, it has been like that for years. Just remembered one term when half of the term was a discussion who should be the next speaker, and was the only discussion we had that term 😁

I agree that congress hasn’t done much to inspire us but again would say we expect so little of them that they are just meeting those expectations. People like SHA and his book of laws were with hindsight probably the best way of keeping congress interested and giving them something to do. If we don’t want congress it wouldn’t be difficult to replace them with a citizens council to do the non button pushing parts and to discuss accountability etc. But as you’re touching upon and as I have mentioned in the article, it’s a lot easier for any government to just crack on and not have to think about democracy once a vote is won

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The responsibility for having an active, involved and supportive Congress lies with Congress itself Woldy. During my first term I opened up government and made it clear anyone who wanted to work had a place - and got no takers. I don't relish doing everything with a tiny team, but it's only a very small number who have the will to do anything.

Autocracy suggests rule of the unwilling many by the few. In reality what we have is the rule of those willing to do any work at all.

You realise that, but what irritated me is that you were constantly saying that there are some kind of discussions happening and loads of new player wanting to participate in stuff and crap like that... It is what it is, there are not many really active people left and not many people give a damn about things as in the past when there was a much bigger player base.

I don’t disagree with that but it is naive to think that years of apathy can be reversed in one month, which is why I think the problem has come from other parties and CP’s that haven’t matched these sorts of commitments - there’s been nought from the politically active milieu to attempt to address it. And it’s not nevessarily about working for the government, it’s about congress working for congress, which should be their main job

And I’d add of course that this isn’t intended as a criticism of any specific presidency. It’s a criticism of how we have all slept walk into a system without effective checks and balances, in which I think a coup becomes an inevitability. If congress won’t do it then we should look for alternatives - a citizens council made up of anyone who wants oversight might work, we probably wouldn’t get too many people applying for it to be impractical and would hopefully get more contributions from more casual players. An idea worth exploring if congress can’t be zapped into life over the next six months

If you want the Speakership to have a punt you have but to ask :3

I agree Woldy, and what we're trying to do is rebuild a cadre of younger players who can then form an active base for the country. That's what I tried to do and I'm proud to see that we have a dozen active players coming out of the chaos of the last two months. What I take umbridge with is that your article lays responsibility at the door of the government. Yes we need a good government that involves people. But what we need is people at all levels to organise themselves and have ambition. If people are elected to Congress and sleep through the month, what's the point? If people are elected as party president and don't do something with it what's the point?

It’s all well and good saying what’s the point but then we are just waiting for a coup to step in where broken politics won’t. The question is why do we put up with it and what are we going to do about it :3

The question is what are you going to do about it. The passive voice just absolves personal responsibility.

And the coup will do nothing to improve player activity or involvement. All it does is limit what little we already have.

We all have a role to play as citizens, but it’s a bit of a cop out to say we all need to do something as though there is some equity in responsibility between day to day clickers and people running for high office and running the country. If it remains a grandiose public ideal it will never get more attention then thought pieces such as this article, ideally it needs to be translated into policy and adopted into government so can be taken up by motivated target-driven ministers. Even just basic reporting on congress is a step forward towards that, but none of this is on the agenda to the extent that new player participation or damage output is.

Again, if you think it needs doing than step up and do it. You know as well as I do that's how it works.

Rather than writing an article vaguely in favour of removing all political activity from players, write a manifesto and implement it.

it shouldn’t take someone like me writing a manifesto to bring about such an obvious and fundamental shift in how things are done in order to fix the broken system. Consecutive governments enjoying unchallenged leadership whilst waiting for someone else to write a manifesto is exactly what has brought about a coup.

And I’m not suggesting we remove players from political activity - I’m actually suggesting we give more players political responsibility. I’d start with congress telling CPs a list what they’ll impeach for and voting for people with the integrity to do it, even if whipped the other way. As described elsewhere in the comments a space for non congressmen to input on their own terms would be good too, especially whilst we try and breathe life back into HoC

"Consecutive governments enjoying unchallenged leadership whilst waiting for someone else to write a manifesto is exactly what has brought about a coup."

Wrong. Firstly, someone as trained as you in logic should be mind-boggled at that leap. Alfa's motivations for the coup were not to engage players, and not as a result of anything other than a whim and an opportunity to tweak my nose, so to speak. He has admitted that himself.

Secondly, "unchallenged leadership" implies that the various CPs did something wrong- or managed to gain and hold power against the will of the people. Also wrong. They were all democratically elected, as were congress. The problem isn't a strong CP, it's a weak, apathetic congress. And each of those congress members has agency and responsibility for their own actions. It is not the job of the CP to baby the very people supposed to hold them to account.

"I’d start with congress telling CPs a list what they’ll impeach for and voting for people with the integrity to do it, even if whipped the other way."

What makes you think this would even be followed? PCP are not going to follow some random rules you make up. If they feel like proposing impeachment they will. They don't need a 'good' reason, and 'being TUP' is a good enough reason for them.


My big issue with your article is you are suggesting that the whole problem with the current system lies at the door of jamesw and I, for being over-powerful CPs. The truth is the blame lies with everyone else, for not engaging constructively or even stepping up. I came back in March and was VP and then CP within a couple of months- purely because I was the only one willing to stand. Who is going to be CP in 10 days? There may not even be a viable alternative to Alfagrem's dictatorship becuase nobody is willing to put in even a minimal amount of effort, or take on any responsibility at all.

The tone of your article also suggests this is someone else's problem. You're one of the UK's best players and like me you bear a bigger than average responsibility for the country because of that. If you think there's a problem, don't just write about it. Do something about it.

>" Alfa's motivations for the coup were not to engage players, and not as a result of anything other than a whim and an opportunity to tweak my nose, so to speak. He has admitted that himself."

^Well that's not true but carry on

Then why do you think the coup has happened, Spite? Shits and giggles for sure, but because shits and giggles can’t be achieved in congress, where it has been every other time.

The idea of an ‘over powerful CP’ is cute but the reality is you and James have been no more powerful in your premiership than any other CP over the past year, precisely because of congress’s apathy and everyone’s apathy about congressional matters. I don’t think anyone believes that this apathy hasn’t been recognised by every government of the past six months as a green light to do whatever they please. And it doesn’t come down to player/power base engagement, it’s all about attitude.

You know that a so called democracy relies on checks and balances, and you know that they don’t exist here in the eUK. So how do you expect dissenting opinions will be voiced? Players aren’t exactly going to ignore the mechanics available to them when a lazy do nothing congress won’t deliver.

On the point of no one running for CP, we should probably accept that it’s not that a demanding role and most people can do it with a decent couple of ministers. Apparently there’s lots of frothingly eager new players eager to get involved, let them run and see if they can help congress function.

Checks and balances are not the responsibility of the CP, they're everyone else's responsibility. So criticise those people, not the CP.

Why did the coup happen? The same reason as the last one. Alfa fancied it and then when it started he decided to commit and won.

Dissenting opinions are easy. Write an article. Vote in opposition. Convince people. Win. We've both done it many times. That sort of change has to come from within people, I'm not going to make someone a firebrand, and if I do the way I'll do it is giving them someone to fight for/against. If anything, my return to the game has helped stir things up again.

You’re first sentence sums up our difference of opinion on this matter.

The CP (and indeed congressmen) should be as invested as anyone else in maintaining a working political system. Now we know what happens when they aren’t.

Like honestly, Spite. All you do is make excuses and refuse to take responsibility. Typical millennial.

I think part of the underlying issue is that there's not much for congress to really say. Anybody that isn't one of TUP's fabled new players finds most decisions game mechanics wise self evident. There's not a lot to pull up a CP on in that regard when he's for the most part doing the most blatantly obvious things that keep the country afloat.

Tax changes used to be one worthwhile area that could generate buzz but in this era where war isn't particularly meaningful there's no real argument for high taxes to hoard huge amounts of money in a short period of time. We simply don't need debate to if we only have one real war every ~5 months or so.

TUP's campaign to get new players in would technically be a semi-reasonable fix if they were similar to new players of old who made a retarded proposal that made no sense every couple of weeks, but they don't seem to do that anymore.

You can't challenge a CP who can't do much wrong. The only complaint game mechanics wise from PCP toward TUP is just that there's not been quite enough actually meaningful (or at least engaging: see proposed 'actually-trying' training wars) war going on. Everything else has been a bit more general party politicking.

Long and short of it is it's difficult to find reason to bother holding CPs accountable when there's not actually a lot of things to disagree on. Wars barely happen, and every other action is fairly obvious.

vote

Kings are not "appointed".... and you are a false king.

There is only one true one.

King William the Great!

Well I mean... you are the president

Still have delusions of adequacy I see

Let's look on the bright side - any chain of events that results in a rejuvenation of our Woldy is not all bad.....