Raw Materials. Back to the drawing board!
Day 310, 10:55
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Published in Sweden 
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by
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by Ziggyzag
* Please [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/article-680929-vote.html]VOTE[/a] if you find this article interesting *
First of all let me say how impressed I am with the Erepubliks citizens. The [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/article-679621.html]PROTEST[/a], against the unbalanced placement of raw materials in the various regions, showed that there is great dissatisfaction over the idea. The protest got over 500 votes! But I must also say that the very idea of differences of the nations raw materials is a good concept, it only needs to be improved in a number of points.
Problems
Would the proposal, as it stands now, be implemented in Erepublik there will be many negative consequences. Admins might think that it will only occur more regional wars and more active trading economies - but that is not the whole truth. To begin with, nations with poor access to raw materials will be abandoned. Despite the fact that people want to live in his/hers IRL-country, it will not be sustainable when such a disadvantaged economies; it simply can not provide their citizens with products.
Large countries with gold and organization, but with less access to raw materials, will colonize the smaller countries with good access to raw materials - the colonization will be done economically. Companies will be dispatched to countries and they will then export the raw materials to the home nation. This is not trade one bit! Also political take-overs are encouraged when smaller countries, for an example South Africa, suddenly becomes very attractive with its raw materials. When it can not be won militarily by larger countries, because of the distance, political take-overs will occur.
Having all this said I would like to give some of my own suggestions
Variables
The differences between the regions' productivity should not be as big as 0,1, 1 and 2. We can already see how much influence such as "employee no.-varibeln" has for a company. The difference is that we, workers and general managers, can influence this factor, which is not the case concerning the region productivity. It would be sensible if the difference would be less - preferably something like 0.6, 1.0 and 1.4.
Location and distribution of raw materials
It is good with some differences in the distribution of raw materials. Comparative Advantages between nations creates trade, and encourages international diplomacy and politics. But to do business, you must have something to offer in exchange. In the original proposal you can see that some countries have access to all raw materials, while others have access only to one or two raw materials. This does not create a trade exchange, but only unbalances the game and will ultimately undermine the nations that have nothing to offer.
My suggestion is that all nations should have a greater supply of three pieces of raw materials (1.4) and have a shortage of two raw materials (0.6) in the regions. The larger nations, with more number of regions, can still have its advantages of having many regions with their three raw materials (1.4). But the big nations should also be encouraged to trade with other countries, this is why they also should have a lack of two raw materials (0.6).
IRL
The IRL similarities should be reviewed, many complained that it was not like reality at all. Of course we should try to imitate reality as well as we can. But It is not the most important matter - what is most important is that we have a balance in the game which is very much more relevant than whether there really are diamonds in a nation or not. If diamonds are too hard to connect with reality it should be replaced with a more common natural asset/raw material. Perhaps Energy (hydropower, wind, solar) could be a suitable raw material to use in production of gifts. That natural asset is also more realistic, and should also be easier to spread out over Erepublik.
I am glad to read that Admins are affected by all the citizens views and that they will fine-tune the game in pace with development. I hope you listen to us and our ideas. Your proposal for Raw materials need to be recast.
/ Ziggyzag, [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/party-104.html]FBS[/a] Swedish vice-President
**************************************** **************************************** *****************
Först av allt vill jag säga hur imponerad jag är över uppslutningen av Erepubliks medborgare. [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/article-679621.html]Protesten[/a] ot Admins utplacerande av raw materials i de olika regioner visade verkligen att det råder ett stort missnöje över den idéen. Protesten fick över 500 votes! Men jag måste även säga att själva idén med skillnader på raw materials i nationerna är en bra grundtanke, den behöver bara förbättras på ett antal punkter.
Problem
Skulle förslaget, som det ser ut nu, genomföras i Erepublik kommer det komma många negativa påföljder. Admins kanske tror att det enbart kommer uppstå fler regionala krig, mer handel och aktivare ekonomier - det är inte hela sanningen. Till att börja med kommer nationer med dålig tillgång på raw materials till att överges. Trots att människor vill bo i sitt IRL-land så blir det inte hållbart då en så missgynnad ekonomi inte kan förse sina medborgarna med produkter.
De stora länderna med guld och organisation, men med sämre tillgång till raw materials, kommer kolonialisera de mindre länderna med bra tillgång till raw materials - kolonisationen kommer att ske ekonomiskt. Företag kommer skickas ut till länder och de kommer sedan exportera raw materials till hemmaplan. Detta är inte på något sätt handel! Även political take-overs uppmuntras då mindre länder, som t.ex.South Africa, helt plötsligt kan bli väldigt attraktiva med dess raw materials. När det inte kan erövras militärt av avlägsna större länder, så kommer political take-overs uppstå.
Nu när jag förklarat lite av problemen skulle jag vilja komma med några egna förslag.
Variablerna
Skillnaderna mellan regionernas produktivitet bör inte vara så stora som 0,1, 1 och 2. Vi kan redan nu se hur stor påverkan t.ex. "employee no.-varibeln" har för ett företag. Skillnaden med den faktoren är att den kan påverkas av oss arbetare och företagare, vilket inte är fallet angående region produktiviteten. Det vore vettigare om differensen vore mindre - förslagsvis något i stil med 0.6, 1.0 och 1.4.
Placering och fördelning av raw materials
Det är bra med vissa skillnader i fördelningen av raw materials. Relativa skillnader nationer mellan skapar handel, och uppmuntrar diplomati och internationell politik. Men för att kunna bedriva handel måste du ha något att ge i utbyte. I det ursprungliga förslaget kan man se att vissa länder har tillgång till alla raw materials, medans andra bara har tillgång till en eller två raw materials. Detta skapar inte ett handelsutbyte, utan felbalanserar enbart spelet och kommer i slutändan att urholka de nationer som inte har något att erbjuda.
Mitt förslag är att alla nationer bör ha en större tillgång av tre stycken raw materials (1.4) och ha en brist av två raw materials (0.6) i regionerna. De större nationerna, med fler antal regioner, kan då fortfarande ha sina fördelar med att ha många regioner med deras tre raw materials (1.4). Men stora nationer ska också uppmuntras att handla med andra länder, därför ska även de ha brist på två raw materials (0.6).
IRL
IRL-liknelserna bör ses över, många klagade på att det inte var likt verkligheten. Självklart ska vi försöka efterlikna verkligheten så gott som det går. Det är däremot inte det viktiga i frågan - det viktiga är att vi får en balans i spelet vilket är oerhört mycket mer relevant än om det verkligen finns diamanter i en nation eller inte. Om det är för svårt att anknyta till verkligheten borde diamanter ersättas med en vanligare naturtillgång, Kanske skulle Energy (Vattenkraft, vindkraft, solenergi) vara ett passande raw material att använda för att producera gifts. En sådan raw material känns dessutom mer realistisk och är även lättare att fördela ut över Erepublik.
Jag blir glad när jag läser att Admins påverkas av meborgarnas åsikter och att de kommer finjustera spelet eftersom. Jag hoppas att ni lyssnar på oss och våra idéer. Ert förslag om Raw materials behöver omarbetas.
/ Ziggyzag, [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/party-104.html]FBS[/a] Swedish vice-President
First of all let me say how impressed I am with the Erepubliks citizens. The [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/article-679621.html]PROTEST[/a], against the unbalanced placement of raw materials in the various regions, showed that there is great dissatisfaction over the idea. The protest got over 500 votes! But I must also say that the very idea of differences of the nations raw materials is a good concept, it only needs to be improved in a number of points.
Problems
Would the proposal, as it stands now, be implemented in Erepublik there will be many negative consequences. Admins might think that it will only occur more regional wars and more active trading economies - but that is not the whole truth. To begin with, nations with poor access to raw materials will be abandoned. Despite the fact that people want to live in his/hers IRL-country, it will not be sustainable when such a disadvantaged economies; it simply can not provide their citizens with products.
Large countries with gold and organization, but with less access to raw materials, will colonize the smaller countries with good access to raw materials - the colonization will be done economically. Companies will be dispatched to countries and they will then export the raw materials to the home nation. This is not trade one bit! Also political take-overs are encouraged when smaller countries, for an example South Africa, suddenly becomes very attractive with its raw materials. When it can not be won militarily by larger countries, because of the distance, political take-overs will occur.
Having all this said I would like to give some of my own suggestions
Variables
The differences between the regions' productivity should not be as big as 0,1, 1 and 2. We can already see how much influence such as "employee no.-varibeln" has for a company. The difference is that we, workers and general managers, can influence this factor, which is not the case concerning the region productivity. It would be sensible if the difference would be less - preferably something like 0.6, 1.0 and 1.4.
Location and distribution of raw materials
It is good with some differences in the distribution of raw materials. Comparative Advantages between nations creates trade, and encourages international diplomacy and politics. But to do business, you must have something to offer in exchange. In the original proposal you can see that some countries have access to all raw materials, while others have access only to one or two raw materials. This does not create a trade exchange, but only unbalances the game and will ultimately undermine the nations that have nothing to offer.
My suggestion is that all nations should have a greater supply of three pieces of raw materials (1.4) and have a shortage of two raw materials (0.6) in the regions. The larger nations, with more number of regions, can still have its advantages of having many regions with their three raw materials (1.4). But the big nations should also be encouraged to trade with other countries, this is why they also should have a lack of two raw materials (0.6).
IRL
The IRL similarities should be reviewed, many complained that it was not like reality at all. Of course we should try to imitate reality as well as we can. But It is not the most important matter - what is most important is that we have a balance in the game which is very much more relevant than whether there really are diamonds in a nation or not. If diamonds are too hard to connect with reality it should be replaced with a more common natural asset/raw material. Perhaps Energy (hydropower, wind, solar) could be a suitable raw material to use in production of gifts. That natural asset is also more realistic, and should also be easier to spread out over Erepublik.
I am glad to read that Admins are affected by all the citizens views and that they will fine-tune the game in pace with development. I hope you listen to us and our ideas. Your proposal for Raw materials need to be recast.
/ Ziggyzag, [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/party-104.html]FBS[/a] Swedish vice-President
**************************************** **************************************** *****************
Först av allt vill jag säga hur imponerad jag är över uppslutningen av Erepubliks medborgare. [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/article-679621.html]Protesten[/a] ot Admins utplacerande av raw materials i de olika regioner visade verkligen att det råder ett stort missnöje över den idéen. Protesten fick över 500 votes! Men jag måste även säga att själva idén med skillnader på raw materials i nationerna är en bra grundtanke, den behöver bara förbättras på ett antal punkter.
Problem
Skulle förslaget, som det ser ut nu, genomföras i Erepublik kommer det komma många negativa påföljder. Admins kanske tror att det enbart kommer uppstå fler regionala krig, mer handel och aktivare ekonomier - det är inte hela sanningen. Till att börja med kommer nationer med dålig tillgång på raw materials till att överges. Trots att människor vill bo i sitt IRL-land så blir det inte hållbart då en så missgynnad ekonomi inte kan förse sina medborgarna med produkter.
De stora länderna med guld och organisation, men med sämre tillgång till raw materials, kommer kolonialisera de mindre länderna med bra tillgång till raw materials - kolonisationen kommer att ske ekonomiskt. Företag kommer skickas ut till länder och de kommer sedan exportera raw materials till hemmaplan. Detta är inte på något sätt handel! Även political take-overs uppmuntras då mindre länder, som t.ex.South Africa, helt plötsligt kan bli väldigt attraktiva med dess raw materials. När det inte kan erövras militärt av avlägsna större länder, så kommer political take-overs uppstå.
Nu när jag förklarat lite av problemen skulle jag vilja komma med några egna förslag.
Variablerna
Skillnaderna mellan regionernas produktivitet bör inte vara så stora som 0,1, 1 och 2. Vi kan redan nu se hur stor påverkan t.ex. "employee no.-varibeln" har för ett företag. Skillnaden med den faktoren är att den kan påverkas av oss arbetare och företagare, vilket inte är fallet angående region produktiviteten. Det vore vettigare om differensen vore mindre - förslagsvis något i stil med 0.6, 1.0 och 1.4.
Placering och fördelning av raw materials
Det är bra med vissa skillnader i fördelningen av raw materials. Relativa skillnader nationer mellan skapar handel, och uppmuntrar diplomati och internationell politik. Men för att kunna bedriva handel måste du ha något att ge i utbyte. I det ursprungliga förslaget kan man se att vissa länder har tillgång till alla raw materials, medans andra bara har tillgång till en eller två raw materials. Detta skapar inte ett handelsutbyte, utan felbalanserar enbart spelet och kommer i slutändan att urholka de nationer som inte har något att erbjuda.
Mitt förslag är att alla nationer bör ha en större tillgång av tre stycken raw materials (1.4) och ha en brist av två raw materials (0.6) i regionerna. De större nationerna, med fler antal regioner, kan då fortfarande ha sina fördelar med att ha många regioner med deras tre raw materials (1.4). Men stora nationer ska också uppmuntras att handla med andra länder, därför ska även de ha brist på två raw materials (0.6).
IRL
IRL-liknelserna bör ses över, många klagade på att det inte var likt verkligheten. Självklart ska vi försöka efterlikna verkligheten så gott som det går. Det är däremot inte det viktiga i frågan - det viktiga är att vi får en balans i spelet vilket är oerhört mycket mer relevant än om det verkligen finns diamanter i en nation eller inte. Om det är för svårt att anknyta till verkligheten borde diamanter ersättas med en vanligare naturtillgång, Kanske skulle Energy (Vattenkraft, vindkraft, solenergi) vara ett passande raw material att använda för att producera gifts. En sådan raw material känns dessutom mer realistisk och är även lättare att fördela ut över Erepublik.
Jag blir glad när jag läser att Admins påverkas av meborgarnas åsikter och att de kommer finjustera spelet eftersom. Jag hoppas att ni lyssnar på oss och våra idéer. Ert förslag om Raw materials behöver omarbetas.
/ Ziggyzag, [a url=http://www.erepublik.com/party-104.html]FBS[/a] Swedish vice-President
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Comments
Voted! Nice to hear that you are not just complaining but also suggesting.
I already wrote an pm to the admins concerning trade with the same idea that every nation should have a lack of at least one or 2 resources...
I totally agree to that but I can\'t see that every nation should have 3 good resources. voted!
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Another idea could be very interesting could be a range of trade (just an idea). Let me explain:
if a country has only one region with iron (2) than at least the neighbour regions of this country could have iron(1) because they are close to it and it can easily transported.
if country A has Iron(2) and coutnry (😎 not then after signing a trade agreement they could have at least in a harbour Iron (1).
Perhaps we can also have a wider range with more small steps from 2.0 via 1.9, 1.8, 1.7....0.1 depending on the distance to the next raw material of the own country or of a trading partner.
Voted.
voted
nice initiative!
voted
Hey Ziggy,
I like your article but here are some of our ideas:
- we do listen to the community, but when we know that something is right no petition would change our mind
- having productivities like 0.6, 1 and 1.4 would make the regions resources not anymore strategic as in the 0.1, 1, 2 case would be;
- reading your comments we made a few changes to the raw materials distribution. We did documented a lot on it but still, there were 2155 values that we had to insert;
- we want to be as close as possible to real life. Even if in real life things are not correct people are developing quite good also in areas with less resources.
- one scenario you are missing: countries with a lot of resources will focus their industries on raw materials, countries with less resources will focus on manufacturing and construction (final products). Who do you think that will be advantaged long term? Like in real life, most developed countries are not the ones that extract the raw materials, but the ones that are processing it into final products. And the table to be complete: what regions do you think will be more attacked? The ones with resources or the ones focused on final products?
Thanks for all the help and involvement.
Also: we plan to add in the future new resources and industries.
George, you have given the countries with raw materials an, in economic terms, an \"absolute advantage\". Even if the non resource countries have a comparative advantage in maufactured goods, and they trade, the resource countries will always be richer and better off, because wages and wealth are determined by absolute advantage.
To balance the game, you should give countries without many resources a bonus to manufacturing goods.
Look at it this way. You have given country A the ability to produce 2 resources, or 1 manufactured good. You have given country B the ability to produce 1 resource or 1 good. Does that look fair?
In real life countries can invest in machinery/capital/etc to increase their manufacturing productivity, but this is not possible in erepublik. Like you said, the non resource WILL specialize in manufacturing and trade (see my article http://www.erepublik.com/article-680572.html) but the resource countries that have the absolute advantage will always be richer than the other ones!
Thanks for the reply George - but I diasgree.
\"- having productivities like 0.6, 1 and 1.4 would make the regions resources not anymore strategic as in the 0.1, 1, 2 case would be;\"
The variables of 0.1, 1 and 2 makes to much of a differences in production. It makes the \"1-regions\" almost useless. Way to unbalanced and it will affect economies in extreme ways.
\"- one scenario you are missing: countries with a lot of resources will focus their industries on raw materials, countries with less resources will focus on manufacturing and construction (final products). Who do you think that will be advantaged long term? \"
Well of course the country that develops raw materials in exclusive \"2-regions\" will be the most succesful ones. Doesnt matter how much effort you put into processing final products, you still need the raw materials to even start producing. The raw materials will set the price of the final products since you have no other choice than to buy the price that is given. If then a few countries have monopolly on these raw materials, take diamonds for an instance they also indirect control the prices of gifts.
And the table to be complete: what regions do you think will be more attacked? The ones with resources or the ones focused on final products?
No one. The countrys with valuable raw materials wont be attacked. They will either be economically colonized, or maybe even politically taken over.
If the protest against unbalance of raw materials got more than double the votes of the Erepublik insider, dont you think that means something? There are experienced players, who knows the game inside out, that are telling you this, you maybe should listen.
You would be right if you didnt need the raw material to produce final products, but you DO need raw materials. Thus giving raw material nations a MAJOR advantage against construction/manufacturing countries.
A little macro economics. Everything is based on supply and demand. The demand of gifts wont go down, but the supply of diamonds (needed to make gifts) will go down. Thus making the gifts prices go up. The ones who has control over diamonds then has a major advantage against those who doesnt have it. Its not that hard imagining how this will end.
And if you are smart you dont even export the diamonds. You just develop gifts at home and get total monopolly, and by that you can sell the gifts for how much you want.
Excellent article Ziggy. You are truly an asset to this country.
Voted.
Agreed with Algaroth.
Voted.
Also, totally agree with Michael Collins about countries that have less raw materials bonus should receive a bonus to manufacturing.
Lets brake it down.
You, George Lemnaru, sell lemonade in your town. To make your lemonade you need lemons. Just for an instance I am the only one in your town that grows lemons. You sell your lemonade for 1 dollar a glass. You want to buy 1 lemon (lets say it takes 1 lemon per lemonade glass) from me for 0.5 dollars.
Wait a minute, I dont want to sell my lemons for 0.5 dollar a piece, I want to sell them for 5 dollars a piece. What are you going to do about it? I am the only guy in town that grows lemons. You have to buy the lemons for 5 dollars a piece, now you have to raise the prices of you lemonade. At the same time I might come up with the idea of starting my own lemonade business. I mean, I can produce the lemonade really cheap since I own a lot of lemons. How are you going to compete with me?
Or maybe I wont sell you any lemons at all.
Flammbar - It is much easier if they would just divide the raw materials more balanced.
Voted. Someone let Ziggyzag admin eRepublik pls, ty :
Voted. Good article.
@George: The Netherlands has really been F*cked with resources. You say that other countries in RL also made it without resources but what has that to do with this game ? The Netherlands is one of the richest economies and biggest transporters of Europa. How are you planning on making The Netherlands more like RL, if that is their strong point.
If resource would be spread like you are planning now it will give some countries incredible advantage over those countries with less or no \"special raw materials\".
Balance the resource more or make the economies more complex so other countries have a better chance of specializing there economy in something.
You guys always talking about your recent country in real life... but this is eRepublik a new world so nobody can choose where am I should be born right? I\'m Indonesian and I proud with all condition apply on my country, I\'ll let you know Indonesia in RL have all resource but know on Erep we don\'t have iron but we not complaint... cause I realize this is GAME...
Although for general reason I also agree with Ziggyzag for balancing raw material...
Maybe war is solution to have material that you want...
@George: Do you will reset all country from start??
*sorry for my bad english...
Voted.
If admins listen to Michael Collins suggestion to spread out manufacturing bonuses then this system will work.
But as we have seen earlier in erepublik, the company that provides the goods for least amount of money will survive giving no opportunities to others. The 1-region productivity is useless.
Great article that sums up the problems of the proposed usage of raw materials!
- The factors 0.1, 1 and 2 are GIGANTIC! Even the dirrence between 1 and 1.4 as Ziggyzag propose is big. Consider the difference in productivity combined with the bonus you get from have a big company. No country with only 1 in a resource can compeat to that. I\'d say the factors should be 0.7 to 1.3 or even 0.8 to 1.2 to make even possible to consider producing raw material in a region with 1.
- If you want to be as close to RL as possible you\'d end up with 80% of the resurces in 10% of the countries, do you really think this make it possible for any new country with no resurces to grow? The bigger countries WILL try to get over the raw material through the game machanics, that is with economic or political take overs if war is not an option.
- Development of trade. If we could create a trade agreement per product (IRON, WEAPONS) there is a possibilty that a country with big weapons industries can trade with a big producer of iron, but what shall the smaller countries do? They do not have anything to offer and will be left out from the raw materials market and left with expensive final products exported to them.
Please listen to the players of the game, we are the ones who will adapt to the changes and are trying to predict to you how we will act in v1.
Good suggestion, voted!
Nice article, good suggestions. This would make the game much more realistic.
I very much agree that the admins may have underestimated the mobility of labour in the game. Certainly some regions with no natural resources such as the North-East of England will become depopulated. Surely the aim of introducing raw materials is to encourage more international trade, not mass international migration..
I also agree with you Ziggyzag!
Back to drawing board, eh.
Nice article Ziggyzag, and as already proposed regions with low raw materials shoudl have higher productivity.
You could maybe go procentual about it, like region A has 20% raw material bonus and 80% productivity bonus while region B has 40% productivity bonus and 60% raw material bonus. And then you could maybe have somme 1:99 region scattered around the globe.
tooooo long article..... !😃
but i am agree with first part. the people would not stand in the regions without resources... and this make Erepublik to hell..