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This is the edited (for space and to cut out random talking) debate which took place between CJ Will Win, Aeroner, Charles Nimitz, and Myself with Vaclav mediating. I will not post any type of commentary anywhere, and I will not fix anything like grammer for anyone. A complete and unedited chat log will be posted on the forums if you want to see the chit chat that occurred before, during, and after the actual debate.



Vaclav: where do you see Israel in 6 months?

CJ Will Win: In 6 months I see Israel in about the same place as it is now. Israel is not a huge country in real life and that will definitely effect our population in game. That said I expect to get more and more people through immigration as Israel becomes a good place for people to live. I see it for the most part remaining neutral. That is not to say we can not improve on what we already have. I see our MPPs growing and our bonds made stronger. I see us gaining more respect on an international level and we continue to prove ourselves.

Aeroner: 6 months is a pretty long time. But I am thinking we will still be progressing, if we have not already achieved our goals. I am also speculating that we will have some of our territories in the near future if this war escalates further. but in 6 months, I am sure we would have gotten them back, as the war will most likely be over in 6 months.

BuzzyTheCat: In six months I see Israel playing a more significant roll on the battle field along side our allies with increased funding for our IDF. I also see a much more expansive collection of MPPs with new allies like Poland and others. I also see a much stronger economy as newer citizens begin to get higher skills and possibly even more government run companies to increase Israeli profits on foreign markets.

Charles Nimitz: I think now is a crucial time for us to shape the path to where we will be in 6 months. I think that in 6 months, the biggest change about eIsrael will be it's population size. I do see a baby boom occuring in the future. This will of course help boost our economy to be on par with the average eNation. I also think that we will see some more defined alliances. Hopefully, we will also see a stronger, more organized IDF as well.



Vaclav: What do you see Israeli role in a military alliance?

BuzzyTheCat: I see Israel as a supporting roll in a large alliance where we would back up our allies in battles. We also have a core foundation of some very powerful tanks, though unforunetly we lack the funding nessisary to inflict large battle damage with them. Israel can very easily offer assistance to our allies with discounted weapons and gifts from our government companies which will aid them in their own fights. Realistically I dont see Israel taking on a leading roll on the battlefield for a very long time however due to our size. It takes mutliple thousands of citizens to inflict damages like the US and Romania regularly put down

CJ Will Win: well in 6 months I see Israel's role in global wars to be a lot greater. This is not to say I ever see us being top dog, because our size and regions will make that an impossibility in the near future. That said israel has a strong group of older citizens that can lay down the damage as well as many mid level players. I don't see Israel ever being a supreme member of the alliance like say the USA, Spain or Hungary, but I do see us being a strong supporting player.

Charles Nimitz: It is my opinion that eventually, our eNation will have to join a millitary alliance to keep it's independence. As of today, we are a very easy target for a nation that wants to expand. If we do, I think we should expect to be minor players in the alliance for some time, until our millitary strength can be increased. If we do join a millitary alliance, we should not expect to put up amazing amounts of damage, nor should we expect to be regarded as a top nation. That being said, Israel does have much to offer. We do have a Q5 hospital, and companies which could aid in any war efforts. I do beleive that Israel will have a role,however small, in a millitary alliance within the next half year or so.

Aeroner: I see us as a driving force in wars, but we won't be doing an incredible amount more damage than now.we may be getting many immigrants, and they may be raising our damage, but not considerably so. It will stay take a long time for us to really be incredibly useful in a military alliance. we already are useful, but not overly so. we will defintely be able to fend off our neighbors, and we can be a productive fighting force but not enough to really fight a huge war where our own regions are at stak

*At this point Charles Nimitz said he had to leave, and left the debate*



Vaclav: if israel was directly assulted, and our allies preoccupied to help, what would you do?

BuzzyTheCat: I would look to delay attacks if at all possible with diplomatic negotiations with the attacking countries President as well as seek a quick end to any hostilities through negotiations. However if the terms for peace were simply unreasonable or unmeetable I would engage in a war of attrition with the enemy and hope to cause them to spend as much money as possible while also spending as little of our own money as possible. I would also save a very large porition of all government funds to that once Israel is more organized and prepared we could engage in resistance wars to gain our regions back. That said, I would never rule out the idea of offensive and preemptive strikes against the enemy territories because as we have seen in the US war, being on the offensive can mean the difference between winning a battle here and there or being wiped off of the map.

CJ Will Win: Depending on the enemy and the amount of support there could be different ways to handle it that said our best bet would be to pursue diplomatic channels. I do not see a time when our allies are 100% going to be unable to support us and I don't see anyone really attacking us. We have no regions of great worth and that means that we are unlikely to be attacked and if we are attacked it is unlikely a ton of effort will go into keeping us. If it came to it and we were attacked and no peace wouas possible I would work with our military leadership and citizens to give our best defense. If we were taken over I'd do my best to keep some level of organization amonst citizens to make a resistance effort possible.

Aeroner: what any other would do. it is a priority that israel be kept safe. Our gold reserves will need to be on standby, and tanks will need to be funded withno hesitation. we need our IDF to be more organized and scripts to be put out ASAP so everyone knows what's going on and where in time to react quickly and gain the upper hand. we must not be afraid to waste funds. IF w ehave no israel, what good are they anyway?



Vaclav: how do you feel about sadeh leaving and how will it affect relations with turkey?

CJ Will Win: I am hoping that eventually Sadeh will come back, but if he doesn't I understand his reasons for leaving and am saddened that he left. That said I'm hoping it won't ruin relationships with Turkey and if elected I would immediately try and contact Turkey and try and continue working towards and mpp and a deal.

BuzzyTheCat: I think Sadeh leaving is a horrible thing and I feel very bad for him. He was the father of this country and he was uncerimoniously shuned by a few people who wanted to play "democracy" instead of making a simple leadership call and supporting the best man for the job. As for relations with Turkey, I am really not sure. Sadeh was the driving force in the peace between Israel and Turkey and has in many cases stopped hostilites between our countries before they even began. Without Sadeh working with the Turkish we are certainly in a more volitile spot than we were with him around, and I am just not sure if the same type of peace and friendship can occure without him. This goes doublely true when Turkey and our allies see how we treat our own citizens... it will almost certainly make them wonder how we will treat our allies and our friends in other countries. It is obvious Israel has a short memory and our feelings change with the mood of our vocal noob patrol, that isnt a good position to hold when dealing with foreign countries.

Aeroner: Sadeh badeh was an incredible asset to this country. he will be sorely missed, but it is time we start looking toward the future. Of course, I will setup meetings between Sadeh and his opponents, and have them talk with eachother. Similarly to what Obama did with sgt Crowley and henry gates.I don't expect Turkey's relations to change, but if they do, even in the slightest, we can't trust them a single bit anymore. If they were just sticking to us because of one player, then they are not an ally that needs to be kept around or that we should feel the need to help

BuzzyTheCat: Vaclav, may I ask a question about Aero's statement?

Vaclav: Yes

BuzzyTheCat: Aero, you say that if we cant trust them if they were simply sticking to us because of Sadeh, and the relationship between our country was damaged to the point of Turkish regime change occurs and BattalGazi comes into power again, how would you handle a situation which you know would lead to open war within a very short period of time?

Vaclav: question accepted

Aeroner: I doubt that our relations will be damaged to that point, but if it is, then we will have to be prepared for the worst. Actually, the question before this could certainly fit here. If USA and our allies are preoccupied, what will happen? We won't be expecting any help from Greece, that much is sure I'm not saying it was a bad decision to stay neutral, I'm saying that this is one of the many bad consequences.

BuzzyTheCat: May I answer that?

Vaclav: Yes

BuzzyTheCat: If our allies in the US and Romania are busy, and we are attacked by someone like Turkey, we really have no hope of survival. I would also go further and say that due to the length of negotiations and how hard they were, for Israel to say "we cant trust you anymore, so now go away" would be more provacatory of a statement than any type of declaration of war. Everyone has an ego and that ego tends to get bruised when a small insignificant country decides to tell you that "you suck and we dont want to deal with you anymore" we also have to consider the ramifications internationally of such a decision as not only would it upset Turkish administration it could also change turkish public opinion and lead to a regime change within their country

Aeroner: may i answer?

Vaclav: Yes

Aeroner: I never said we should say "You suck, go away". I just meant we should be cautious about how far we trust him




Vaclav: next question from the audience: what kind of relationship would you strive for with Greece if elected?

BuzzyTheCat: I would simply open comunications with them to make sure that there are no hostilities between our countries, however as per our current deal with Turkey, I would not push for any type of MPP with Greece, nor do I believe that would be a good move even if we were best of friends. Due to our common boarders with Turkey, a Greek MPP with Israel would mean an inevitable war between Turkey and Israel because of Auto-war-activation. It is common sense that Turkey will continue to attack Greece over the Iron in their Central region, and an MPP with Greece would mean that every time Central Greece is attacked, a separate war would be automatically opened between Israel and Turkey... that is a war that we can not only not afford, but also a war that we could not ever hope to win

CJ Will Win: I'm hoping that good relations with them can be formed. I'd hope that of any country. They did not like that we could not support them in their war against Turkey but they are doing fine via there other allies. I'm not one to purposefully burn bridges and I'm hoping a relationship can be formed, but not one that would hurt our country or our diplomatic relations with Turkey.

Aeroner: Good relations with Greece. I think we should treat them the same as Turkey, but not go as far as an MPP, for obvious reasons. We will NOT fight Greece against Turkey, or vice versa. we cannot afford it. It all comes down to a matter on how you play the game of politics. You have to know when to fold and when to go all in. Like a game of poker, you cannot let the other side know what you are thinking, or even your emotions to a specific situation



Vaclav: Next question: How would you propose a way to gain more gold?

Aeroner: I've actually been thinking about this for awhile. well, I've noticed that the parties have much gold in their treasuries. Likud alone has 35. Do the parties really need that much gold? No. Every month, maybe even every 3 weeks, each party will have to donate 5 gold. I am not talking about the smaller parties, yet to grow. That wouldn't be fair. I am talking

Vaclav: I may interject, the gold cant be taken out.

BuzzyTheCat: Our government run companies, though despised by some, are currently and for the foreseeable future our only source of serious income. Due to this I would encourage and aggressivly open and manage more goverment companies designed around increasing more wealth for Israel. This could be achived by using the profit from our current companies and putting small amounts on the side so that eventually we could open another high quality company, then doing the same thing over and over again, many times, until we are bubbling with companies in all markets, in all qualities, and all over the world. Profit from companies is just about the only way for a country our size to survive and flourish

CJ Will Win: There are many sources of gold for a country one being taxes. Israel doesn't get a ton from this because of our tax and market structure. This means money in your pocket for the common citizen but it doesn't mean guns for our IDF. Like others I am a fan of the government owned comapnies and see high qualities exports as a great source of income.

Vaclav: Aeroner is allowed to make a new answer. If he wishes of course

Aeroner: Fine, then each party will have to raise gold on their own with their members.. This will help inspire team-play in the party itself, and make them believe their are working together to ahieve something for the entire country. A rule will be put into place for the next 2 congress elections after I am elected, IF I am elected. Every single last congressman will have to donate his or her 5 gold. that's 200 gold. If one does not donate his gold, he will have to give an excuse to be judged by me and my VP. if it is not a valid excuse, he will be asked to donate again. Those who don't donate without a valid reason will be published in a newspaper, and pressured to resign. I know this sounds like tough love, but it is neccessary. if you really like your country, you'd give anything for it

CJ Will Win: that's not exactly feasible. a congressman can tell you to **** off and die and won't give the money.

BuzzyTheCat: you will in every congress, run into between 10 and 15 congressmen which will never talk to you, never speak a single word to you and will many times not even create a forum account. Due to game rules, there is simply nothing you can do about that... just so you know, you can in the best of circumstances only hope for about 100 gold, and many times, it will be much less

There was also some more back and forth during this time, for complete side conversations please read the unedited version on the forums.




Vaclav: How would you, if you would at all, try to promote peace between Greece and Turkey with out being involved in any war? Do you think it's possible?

CJ Will Win: Besides just giving both sides my thoughts when it became possible nothing. I think trying to force peace could alienate both sides from us and we are in no position to order it.

Aeroner: I was thinking about this the entire time I have been a candidate. I think it CAN be achieved, but only with rigorous politics and attention to the issue. We can't shun or insult a single diplomat that meets with us. It must be diplomatic and peaceful. We can act as the host nation, welcoming both Greece and Turkey. The meeting has to be nice calm, and we have to be hospitable and so must the others if we are ever to achieve this great feat.

BuzzyTheCat: Realistically I do not think peace, or even an atmosphere of mutual non aggression can be achieved between those 2 countries. Their history goes back too far and negative things have happened on both sides for there to be any type of friendship of peace between them. It was back before many of your times that Greece Trolled Turkey into conqureing them because the Goons had PTO'ed Greece, now Greece has come to the attitude "they are our lands and we wont give a single inch of them even if it means peace between us"... If people were even remotely possible between them, I hate to say, Greece WILL have to give up Central Greece to Turkey permanently, appologies will need to be made and attitudes will need to change greatly. Short of that, Greece and Turkey will continue to hate each other forever and there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

Aeroner: May I ask a question on Buzzy's?

Vaclav: Yes

Aeroner: if Peace is to be achived, greece shouldn't have to give up a single region. which brings me to another question, if you had a choice between going to war with turkey or giving up one of our important regions( a Q5 hospital region) would you do it, or would you try and fight? Greece is different that us, I know, but this is a tough question

BuzzyTheCat: If giving up a region of Israel meant lasting permanent peace between Israel and Turkey, or Israel and anyone else, I could certainly consider it. As horrible as that sounds to some people, you have to ask yourself the question... live with 1 or 2 less regions, or cease to exist at all. In my opinion, I would rather live without a region that have no home to live in. Negotiations must be give and take, if you come with the attitude of giving nothing up at all, you arent negotiating, you are making empty demands

At this point Vaclav needed to leave, and the debate continued without a mediator, though it stayed friendly at all times.

Aeroner: Ok, so buzzy, this is different. our allies are not so preoccupied. they can help us somewhat, and we are strong fighting force, then what? would you take the chance?

BuzzyTheCat: my decision would be based on Knesset opinion and the strength and terms of the deal. If the deal was for permanent peace (through an iron clad contract enforced by the admins) and Knesset opinion wasnt "are you freaking nuts" then I would strongly consider it, and would probably lean into the direction of agreeing to it however if the deal was something along the lines of "we wont attack you for 3 months, and there is nothing except our word on that" I doubt I would even go as far as talking to Knesset about it, that deal would be dead right there


BuzzyTheCat: does anyone want to ask me anything else, unmoderated?




SoulSalvage: Buzzy, if you were to lose presidency, Would you willfully hand over any and all government-run companies?

BuzzyTheCat: yes I would, this situation is vastly different than it was was Gzen became president through impeachment. If a candidate is voted into office by the Israeli people, he will have the passwords and org accounts in his possession within a few hours of winning along with a "congrats"



SoulSalvage: If elected president, would you set up a cabinet, to help with anything? Also, would you publicize all people placed in the cabinet, for sake of transparency?

Aeroner: Yes

Cj Will Win: Yes I'd definitely set up a cabinet and have it available

BuzzyTheCat: Of course I would as I have in the past, in fact I wrote something very similar to that into our constitution

At this point there was some minor back and forth about the constitution posted on the forums.




BuzzyTheCat: If elected, can you truthfully say that you will be able to dedicate 2, 3, sometimes 4 and 5 hours PER DAY to your duties, even when you have school, work, or other things to do? Basically, can you/will you, put other things in your life aside so that you can play a game?

CJ Will Win: lol I got 3 units and no job 😃

Aeroner: I can do 2 3, sometimes 4 But as responsibilities pile up, those hours are shaves down, but I can probably still do that




Filthy McNasty: you were gonna take a break do you not feel that cj would be up to the task if elected ?

BuzzyTheCat: out of friendship to CJ I will not answer that




That was our debate, have fun reading it, and above all else, make an informed decision when you go to vote guys. Seriously, whatever you believe at this point, just vote based on facts and how candidates responded in this debate. Please don’t vote based on friendship, party affiliation, or anything else.

This is the link to the forum version of the Debate

http://erandia.net/tjc/index.php?topic=439.0