Natural enemy or Inside enemy ?
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by Zombinho
Are you that much ignorant or are you just spiteful?
Yesterday i proposed a new law, I proposed NE to Brazil because they proposed NE to us, too. So, to prevent from being a step behind, I quickly proposed NE and I think I made the right decision.
That way we would have fought for NE which in the moment we don't have it and we would have made more damage and more rank points. At first, the voting was going OK because it was the correct decision. However, due to your unbiased hatred towards me, the necessary NE law was rejected.
So I ask you in public, Why did you reject the law when only good things would have happened? You are telling me that my purpose is bad and that I'm doing bad things for the community, but maybe i'm not ? Or are you mad that it wasn't your friends from Turkey?
Why would you vote no, when this clearly benefited the country?
Did you rejected the law ? or your beloved friends, the Turks that "want only the best for eSA" rejected it ?
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It is illegal for South African Congress Members to vote yes to a proposal that has not been discussed. It is part of our agreement to uphold the Constitution of South Africa. Besides that, it is also a courtesy to the other 40 votes out there to actually get input. If you feel more comfortable discussing proposals in-game via and article instead of forums, totally acceptable. But at least link it to some forum for discussion even if it is an ingame mail thread.
While you assume your action was the correct one for South Africa -- did you bother to ask the other 40 voices of the people? No.
No discussion.
No discussion link.
No consultation to build consent.
No vote.
Clear?
I rarely visit the forums so that's why i posted article in game.
I didn't now that i have to ask the others just to make the right move, I thought that this is the right move and i made it.
http://forums.erepubliksa.com/congressional-hall/natural-enemy-proposal-12683/msg154235/?topicseen#new
I repeat the point for emphasis -- how can you reasonably assume a proposal will succeed if you haven't bothered to ask any one of the other forty people who also have a vote and an opinion, what they think?
I respect everyone's opinion, but i didn't know that i should ask for permission.
anyway, this was good thing for eSA
Its not asking for permission. Its consulting with your fellow Congress Members to build support for your 'position/proposal. Politics is not a solo game.
I was congress member back in Macedonia, there the congressman doesn't have to consult the other's for a law like this, this is a MUST VOTE YES law, and that is why i rushed and don't asked anyone.
" I was congress member back in Macedonia" Yes back in Macedonia, this is South Africa. We do things differently whether you agree with it or not.
But why such a law was voted with NO, is it because of me ? If someone else proposed it, and btw didn't consulted with the others, will than the law would have been accepted ?
I don't care in Grimstone, Miyagi, Enbaros, Leon, Kiko or whoever, rogue is rouge & I'll vote it NO and their are several others who side with on this. Their were also other cogress members who argued that we should vote yes since it was a good proposal regardless that you made. They lost the debate, the law won.
Vroteier, so you are saying that is better eSA to be left without NE, than accepting a law that i proposed, good for you 😉
No where did I say I voted it down because you proposed it get over yourself. What I did say is that I'd vote down a rogue proposal regardless of who made it.
But you do admit that it was a good thing, so good this aren't suppose to be accepted ???
Good or bad, the law must be & will be followed. I cannot make it clearer than that.
Well I respect the rule of law, I don't believe in the absolute idea that whatever is law must always be followed. If a law makes no sense, or in this case no harm come from fudging the law, then it isn't a big deal.
I disagree, the law is their to be followed through every time, not just when we feel like it or believe it to be a good time.
@ Zombinho - I dont know you and have nothing against you but I believe as a congress member you should have respect and discuss things with us and not get all pissed off when things dont go your way. There is a congress for a reason and we have a right to a discussion.
Agreed. If you don't like a law, change it. Don't break it.
Choosing which laws to follow or not at your convenience is just pure anarchy and renders all laws meaningless. Why bother to define any laws with that attitude?
Laws embody the consensus opinion and following them reflects your courtesy for the opinion of everyone else in your society.
NyxShade, bro I'm not pissed off at all, and i respect the law
Me & Zombihno came to an agreement that the law must be followed, I just replied to the wrong spot, was supposed to be to Elronds reply.
@Zombinho, again, you're wrong. Nyx's a woman.
Uber kiko, that is a thing that i didn't know, but i'm sure that Nyx wont be mad at me 🙂
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How stupid you are. I was the only one who defend we should vote yes. Poor pTOer, nobody care you.
I don't mind that nobody care about me 😉
And i don't want to insult anyone, i just want answers to my questions
Not helping Leon. Why call him names when an straight answer will do?
I wish I'd see you when the times which everyone calling eachother with name on forum, Miya. However, nice to see you are an active citizen now, even for defending pTOers, it's good.
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Leon, why are you saying all the time that eSa citizens are defending the PTOers, when nobody defends you ?? I'm I blind, or what ?
Just guilty ones need defending.
YES man you are guilty, you are right
I said we should vote yes too.
As per Section 2, point "d" and "g"
(d) Unless otherwise specified, all Congressional Proposals will require a Proposal Debate after which the Speaker may call for the proposal to move to either a Forum Vote or in-game vote.
(g) Valid in-game proposals may move immediately to an in-game vote.
Do I think it was a good NE, yes. But since it didn't follow procedures I voted NO and so did most of my fellow congress members. Had a discussion been started on it it would've been passed easily.
So because of the formalities, eSA is without NE and will most likely will lose all the regions ?
Yes, those "formalities" are in place to be followed. Proposal that break them get voted down, simple as that. Plus were gonna lose the regions anyway or do you think the NE bonus would make us strong enough to beat Brasil all of a sudden?
With or without NE bonus we cannot beat Brazil. So the only lost benefit is 10% extra damage for rank points. Minor effect either way.
Losing our regions is actually helpful this time since it keeps Indonesia out of Africa. Once EC is closed, Brazil will return the other regions like they always do (and even did a few days ago) and keep paying us rent.
Indonesia has no such compulsion.
I agree, but wouldn't be better if we had NE now ?
The open a discussion thread in then National Assembly already.
How to open a discussion when i can't aces it ?
Tell you what Zombihno, I'm a believe in the democratic process. Next time you, Enbaros or another Templar congress have something to propose PM with it & I'll get it started on the forum & keep you in the loop.
The joke is on you. I can be ignorant AND spiteful, all at the same time!
ignorant or spiteful, i say 😉
I have said it before and I will say it again. Some of our laws are just plain ridiculous. And NO, I AM NOT SUPPORTING PTO'ers! I am still against 24hr discussion/24 hr voting. And also, from what I read here, is Zombieman acknowledged he made a mistake by proposing and still you guys carried on about him making that mistake. sheesh.
Me to, why do we have to discuss the law, when we know that is a good thing ?
Don't get me wrong, it should still be discussed. It is the 48hrs being wasted that gets to me...
yes yes
Its 24 hour discussion always. For in-game laws, the vote happens immediately afterwards in-game, and does not need a forum vote then game vote as per the old law.
I get that you may want a simultaneous vote and discussion -- but there are very few instances where this is beneficial. And if we do want to extend discussion, a simultaneous vote would force us to cut it short.
The other issue is multiple time-zones. If it all had to happen within 24 hours, a response would only be seen after the vote completes -- so again no time for real discussion.
Not perfect, but its more fair than rushing everything through.
Its not just that. Its the fact that even though the discussion concluded that the proposal was a good idea, people voted it down because they were told too, not because they were against it.what did we gain by opposing it, other then wasting time. Had I been a congressman I still would have voted yes regardless.