Let Us Be Fair - Iron Taxes Are Not Equal *EDIT*
Day 792, 19:30
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Published in China 
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by
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by Zhou San
Full Disclosure - I am an iron worker.
An argument was made a couple of months or so ago that for eChina to become stronger, we should drop all restrictions on raw materials trade and drop the import taxes to 1%. This argument was one that I fought against, but was ultimately accepted by the nation. Therefore, grain and oil are now 1% income/import.
The point was, in my understanding, that opening up our raw material trade would strengthen our manufacturing. It seems the opposite is now true and that wages for land workers are much higher than wages for manufacturing or construction workers. But that is for a different debate...
I am proposing changing the Iron taxes:
1) My true personal belief is that we either close the trade entirely (99% import tax) or use a better % for import taxes (such as 5-10
2) Our domestic Iron industry has had time to develop so protectionist measures are no longer needed.
3) The main point of this article/proposal is that we should be equal. Why are grain and oil workers and managers paying 9% less taxes than the iron industry? Why are overseas iron managers paying 30% more in import taxes? Either we are all at 1%, 5%, 10%, or 31% (like Iron is now), or we are being unfair.
4) I understand that iron has higher national security implications than say grain and oil. So let's raise the others instead of being unequal.
Therefore, I am now proposing a 1%/1% tax for Iron. As I said, I do not support this move, but I do support fairness and equality among workers and managers. So let us equalize the playing field and then we can debate a true tax policy (cough cough,....5-10% cough cough).
Thanks for your time,
Zhou San （周三）
PS - In the spirit of democracy, I encourage all congressman to post their vote so the voters can see your stance on equality. I, of course, voted yes.
EDIT/UPDATE
As I mentioned in #1 and #4 in the article, we should protect all our HIGH regions to be fair to all workers and managers. I made this 1%/1% proposal to spark debate and I highly expect it to be, wisely, defeated. If I thought there was a chance it would pass, then I wouldn't have proposed it. Debate comes from emergency and we now have a timer counting down to encourage us to debate.
That said, it was mentioned that grain and oil are less profitable, and that grain may even be unprofitable in eChina. That is because of our 1% import tax imposed by a previous government. 1% import equals a very nice incentive for foreign companies to export to eChina. With more competition comes less profit margins. Just increasing the import tax on grain and oil (especially grain) would almost instantly benefit our grain/oil workers and managers.
As we can easily see, almost every country with a HIGH region has 99% import tax. I do not support a 99% tax unless we want to abandon import tax revenues. But I also don't support a 1% tax either. 1% is what killed grain, as I mentioned in that linked article I wrote months ago.
Please Read THIS
30% import tax across the board would protect our workers and managers, and the most efficient companies in the world could still help provide eChina with import revenues. With this extra protection we could also raise the income tax. So why not put 10/30% for grain, oil and iron?
My apologies for anyone who did not understand my original article and the proposal. Again, I do not actually support 1/1% (even though that was mentioned in the article) and I never have! What I support is being fair. Let us create an efficient staples economy. We have 3 of the 5 resources at a HIGH level. Why are we wasting our national advantage? Why are people defending iron only when we could profit from all 3?
An argument was made a couple of months or so ago that for eChina to become stronger, we should drop all restrictions on raw materials trade and drop the import taxes to 1%. This argument was one that I fought against, but was ultimately accepted by the nation. Therefore, grain and oil are now 1% income/import.
The point was, in my understanding, that opening up our raw material trade would strengthen our manufacturing. It seems the opposite is now true and that wages for land workers are much higher than wages for manufacturing or construction workers. But that is for a different debate...
I am proposing changing the Iron taxes:
1) My true personal belief is that we either close the trade entirely (99% import tax) or use a better % for import taxes (such as 5-10
😵that will not discourage imports but will bring in more revenues than 1% does. This statement is true for all our HIGH resources, in my opinion.
2) Our domestic Iron industry has had time to develop so protectionist measures are no longer needed.
3) The main point of this article/proposal is that we should be equal. Why are grain and oil workers and managers paying 9% less taxes than the iron industry? Why are overseas iron managers paying 30% more in import taxes? Either we are all at 1%, 5%, 10%, or 31% (like Iron is now), or we are being unfair.
4) I understand that iron has higher national security implications than say grain and oil. So let's raise the others instead of being unequal.
Therefore, I am now proposing a 1%/1% tax for Iron. As I said, I do not support this move, but I do support fairness and equality among workers and managers. So let us equalize the playing field and then we can debate a true tax policy (cough cough,....5-10% cough cough).
Thanks for your time,
Zhou San （周三）
PS - In the spirit of democracy, I encourage all congressman to post their vote so the voters can see your stance on equality. I, of course, voted yes.
EDIT/UPDATE
As I mentioned in #1 and #4 in the article, we should protect all our HIGH regions to be fair to all workers and managers. I made this 1%/1% proposal to spark debate and I highly expect it to be, wisely, defeated. If I thought there was a chance it would pass, then I wouldn't have proposed it. Debate comes from emergency and we now have a timer counting down to encourage us to debate.
That said, it was mentioned that grain and oil are less profitable, and that grain may even be unprofitable in eChina. That is because of our 1% import tax imposed by a previous government. 1% import equals a very nice incentive for foreign companies to export to eChina. With more competition comes less profit margins. Just increasing the import tax on grain and oil (especially grain) would almost instantly benefit our grain/oil workers and managers.
As we can easily see, almost every country with a HIGH region has 99% import tax. I do not support a 99% tax unless we want to abandon import tax revenues. But I also don't support a 1% tax either. 1% is what killed grain, as I mentioned in that linked article I wrote months ago.
Please Read THIS
30% import tax across the board would protect our workers and managers, and the most efficient companies in the world could still help provide eChina with import revenues. With this extra protection we could also raise the income tax. So why not put 10/30% for grain, oil and iron?
My apologies for anyone who did not understand my original article and the proposal. Again, I do not actually support 1/1% (even though that was mentioned in the article) and I never have! What I support is being fair. Let us create an efficient staples economy. We have 3 of the 5 resources at a HIGH level. Why are we wasting our national advantage? Why are people defending iron only when we could profit from all 3?
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Translation appreciated 😛
I'm really understand what you said as an IRON WORKER. But the situation is that in eChina, nowadays none of GRAIN company even Q5 can earn ANY money, and that of OIL is only a bit better.
Once you increase those taxes, there will be NONE companies still alive, and we are wasting our HIGH resources.
That's my opinion.
The iron is the most valueable industry in eChina,
and the iron workers' salaries are highest ,
The incoming tax of iron is the largest part of the taxes of eChina.
i can't agree to decrease this to 1%
强烈呼吁否决铁税议案，即使我即将开启铁厂运营。
@John Chen
🙂 thanks for the comment. My personal eLife is not brought into this, but I disclosed it in case others question my motives. People who know me, know that I am not doing this for personal profit.
Having different tax tiers, without informing the public, or without a good debate, is what I am fighting against.
What do others think?
I don't agree with what you have done, for there is many congressman who only votes, without discussion anywhere.
The iron worker has the highest salary in eChina, far higher than other industries. Why do you think they should get more money?
@wangxiaoyall and J. Chen
Awesome reasoning! That is a good reason for keeping a 10% income tax rate. n This is the kind of debating that I think is needed.
How about harmonizing the import tax rates but having different income tax rates based on that information? Again, what do others think?
@John Chen
"Therefore, I am now proposing a 1%/1% tax for Iron. As I said, I do not support this move, but I do support fairness and equality among workers and managers. So let us equalize the playing field and then we can debate a true tax policy (cough cough,....5-10% cough cough)."
If we can promise to have a continued and reasonable debate, then I encourage others to vote no and we can make new proposals later. But it seems people only debate when there is a proposal, not for one second before, or after.
I don't support giving iron workers more money, I am supporting fairness. The reason iron wages are high is because there are many new iron companies. New companies need workers and GMs always aggressively try to out-bid each other on salaries. It should cool off
I think none of grain companies can be alive in eChina
since the price of grain is only about half of iron's..
Oil companies' situation are much better,
the price of iron and oil are close,
with a less incoming tax maybe they can be alive
The reason is that IRON itself can earn more money than other resource industries. So the taxes can make a balance between those companies.
I understand the arguments you make. Like I said, this proposal's point was to encourage debate and fairness. By no means do I support 1%/1% and any congressman who blindly votes is a fool. Hence why debate it so important. Even though most debates are in Chinese, I will still run them through a translator or have my wife translate for me before I make a decision.
If you argue that grain and oil are not very profitable (or not profitable in the case of grain), then why not raise their import taxes? With less competition, the domestic producers are sure to see their profits rise.
If anything, these statements make the point that 1%/1% killed grain and oil. 1% could kill iron too?
1% is flawed, especially for import taxes and especially with our abundance of HIGH regions; We are a staples economy. Although I do not support 99% (or frankly, anything over 25) either.
Zhou San, do you know I have prepared to open 3 Q4 iron companies(2 are mine, and the third is for the joint company of our party) in ECHINA, to boost echina's economy, to provide high salary to chinese people. But if you decrease the rate to 1%, do you think I and some other player will still open new iron companies to welfare eChina people?
@Lovevas
Which means 30 more needed employees and even higher wages for iron workers which would upset J.Chen 😛 hehe just kidding
Everyone has to get off this 1% thing which I have never said I supported 🙂
I support a more equal land industry and that doesn't mean going down to 1%. Kindof regret using 1% now, should have proposed oil and grain to 10%/31% to make my point.
Another reason is that, the return revenue rate of Q4 IRON in eChina is much lower that in any other country, so if we really change the import tax to 1%, I dont think the existing companies will continue to be willing to make their business in eChina.
Then that is all we did to get Liaoning back?
I don't even want this law to pass. What I want is for us to find a common and reasonable ground. Why protect iron but leave our grain and oil wide open? We should either abandon it all, or protect it all. A nice harmonized import tax is all I am suggesting.
We comment that oil and grain is not profitable but iron is. That is because oil/grain is 1% import but iron is 31% import tax. Think about it. 5-25% across the board would invigorate or domestic producers and still allow efficient companies to export to eChina...therefore, domestic companies and workers benefit, efficient foreign companies benefit(less), and the government earns more tax.
Read again please:
"Everyone has to get off this 1% thing which I have never said I supported 🙂"
😃
iron is definitely the most valuable in this game, so any country must boost the iron industry instead of any other industries, cause iron has the largest market, greatest tax for a country.
I think you should see all the other iron countries about the iron related tax. Let's see import tax:
Spain:99%,Brazil:99%,Greece:99%,Hungary: 99%,Peru:99%,Russia:10%,Ukrine:99%,USA:1 %.
Can you see the problem?
Comparing with changing taxes of iron, why not rising up taxes of grain and oil?
Echina has many iron companies,but only a few of oil and grain companies,
we need to import oil and grain,and export iron
so the import taxes of them are different
There is no equal, if there is ,why we did our best to get liaoning back? why not just boost the grain industry or the oil industry instead of iron, of coz, iron is the best way to boost eChina.
if you think equaliry is important, I think you should cut down iron companies, because the iron workers are gaining higher salaries than the manufactures, that is unfair.
If we lose high iron in the future,
The taxes will be changed again,
It only depends on
what we are producing,and what we are lacking.
USA doesn't have domestic (original region) Iron and therefore are promoting imports. But I do see the 99%...why are we not doing that with iron/grain/oil?
Our oil and grain WERE 99% and you can read here (http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/grain-and-oil-proposals-1061977/1/20) where I debated keeping our import taxes high.
Just because Iron has a higher perceived value doesn't mean we should abandon grain and oil. I understand your argument and I am actually on your side.
I am saying, let us not abandon grain and oil, let us promote all our HIGH resources.
We need a 1% income on grain and oil because we have 1% import. If we raised import to 31%(for fairness sake) we could also raise income taxes to 10% on those industries.
Seems my sarcasm and debate producing antics have failed. Please read #1 and #4 in the article. You are arguing/debating against me though I am saying what you are saying 🙂
I could easily have said "Let Us be fair - grain/oil are unequal" and proposed 10/31% for grain and oil.
How to promote grain? with the same investment (190G for Q4), same salary, but how can the price the same? iron is 0.008G per Q1, grain is 0.0045G per Q1.
The market price decides the industry to be the most profitable.
@zhousan
Most of the ecountry's taxes are not equal,
For excample,you can look at The taxes of eSpain and eRomania.
The import tax of iron in eSpain is 99%,because they have high iron,They are producing iron.
and the situation of eRominia is different,
They are producing grain,and the tax of grain is 99%
I am aware. Then why are we not at 99% for grain, oil and iron then? We make all 3 so by your logic we should be protecting all of them.
Grain is at a lower profit margin because of foreign grain because of 1% import tax. And also it has a smaller profit margin.
see update for more views 🙂
and thanks for the lively debate guys, you made my day (I love a good debate...although I think I was misunderstood a couple times)
😃
Be back in an hour or so
If the income tax is to 1%, how does our nation gets income at all?
higher import tax can't save the grain industry
Market rules this...
不好意思，這是沒有經過議會討論的議案，所以是反對票。
"If the income tax is to 1%, how does our nation gets income at all?"
Exactly. Raise grain and oil too to be fair and to promote a livelier land industry and earn more taxes.
"higher import tax can't save the grain industry"
It was doing ok before lowered to 1/1%. Grain probably has the lowest margin, but there is a difference between bankruptcy and making a tiny profit.
"不好意思，這是沒有經過議會討論的議案，所以是反對票。"
I hope you are against it.
@ Wangxiaoyall
"we need to import oil and grain..."
Why??? We are high in these 2 resources in Beijing right?
"and export iron"
Q1 in iron is a loss business, and Q2 barely breakeven. I take that is the industry nature.
@John Chen + Lovevas
"The iron worker has the highest salary in eChina, far higher than other industries. Why do you think they should get more money?"
Because there is -10% (tax) on the salary you see from the job ad, that's why.
Although I am in favor of equality as a general principle, in this situation I don't see that equalizing taxes will actually make much of a difference. I went through the market a few minutes ago could find almost no foreign companies selling any of the three goods under discussion here. I'm not sure if this is a fluke or not, but if this is normal the depressed prices on grain and oil have almost nothing to do with foreign competition and everything to do with simple over-saturation of the market. It seems to me, then, that more protectionist import tariffs will have no effect on anything, so the whole point is kind of moot.
Speaking as a high skill Iron worker, Torgo has thrown every bit of that high salary and more into buying weapons for real battles.
Look further downriver to see if the economic effect of higher land wages is a bad thing for eChina. Where are the purchased weapons and food units produced in the first place? Judging from company names, the guns at least are all imported.