In Response to: Duties for Near Future
Day 1,022, 17:18
•
Published in Ireland 
•
by
•
by Michael Hook
Socialism and eRepublik: Good, Bad, or Ugly
I'm going to try and keep this as civil as possible but personally I don’t think complete Socialism is very smart or possible in this game.
While I have respect for Socialism in the real world I don't see it as a good idea for eRepublik. First of all this game has very limited things to do and many people quit from boredom. If you take away the option of building up money to create a company even more people might quit from boredom or leave the country. Also, not only will you really anger and piss off a lot of people at first, but after a short while you will really screw over anyone who owns a company in eIreland and see it turn into a wasteland.
Please listen to this reason. Anyone who is anti-socialism will most likely leave the country. Because of this you will see a pretty decent drop of population in a short amount of time. Like you said you will force company's out of business. This will lead to everyone trying to sell their company's. However, because of the drop of population and the limited resources of the government not as many companies will be needed, or be able to be purchased. This will lead to hundreds if not thousands of Irish gold to be virtually frozen. This will piss off the company owners and then push them out. This will be the 2nd drop of population. Now, generally those who own companies, are the wealthier citizens. While I understand Socialism is building from the ground up, there is a need for those with money. Those who have more will give more to the state through tax and in socialism's case, buying products. With the potentially thousands of frozen gold, the wealthy citizens gone, and a severe drop in population, this will lead to a weaker, poorer, and worse Ireland.
A Compromise
I think the best option for you right now is to keep building your idea and to keep a close eye on The Czech Republic as they try to build a Socialist society. It should help us see what works and what doesn't work when it comes down to it. Also I recommend taking on some Right-Wingers to develop your idea. This will probably help you get the idea more accepted and far more plausible. I’m not saying you should take this completely away from Socialism but just taking it a little bit farther away. Like I said I don't believe complete Socialism is possible in the game. However I think if you start slow and build it up, you will get it pretty damn close and won't screw over eIreland at the same time.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but take it as constructive criticism. We all know some sort of change is needed in Ireland and I applause you for trying to create it. I just think your current proposal is a little too extreme for this game and this country.
Thank you,
Michael Hook
Current Co-Minister of Immigration
Former Minister of Immigration x2
Former CO of the IDF Tank Division
Former Member of the Dail x4
Former Deputy Minister of New Citizens x1
Former Minister of Health x2
Former CO of the 3rd Regulars
I'm going to try and keep this as civil as possible but personally I don’t think complete Socialism is very smart or possible in this game.
While I have respect for Socialism in the real world I don't see it as a good idea for eRepublik. First of all this game has very limited things to do and many people quit from boredom. If you take away the option of building up money to create a company even more people might quit from boredom or leave the country. Also, not only will you really anger and piss off a lot of people at first, but after a short while you will really screw over anyone who owns a company in eIreland and see it turn into a wasteland.
Please listen to this reason. Anyone who is anti-socialism will most likely leave the country. Because of this you will see a pretty decent drop of population in a short amount of time. Like you said you will force company's out of business. This will lead to everyone trying to sell their company's. However, because of the drop of population and the limited resources of the government not as many companies will be needed, or be able to be purchased. This will lead to hundreds if not thousands of Irish gold to be virtually frozen. This will piss off the company owners and then push them out. This will be the 2nd drop of population. Now, generally those who own companies, are the wealthier citizens. While I understand Socialism is building from the ground up, there is a need for those with money. Those who have more will give more to the state through tax and in socialism's case, buying products. With the potentially thousands of frozen gold, the wealthy citizens gone, and a severe drop in population, this will lead to a weaker, poorer, and worse Ireland.
A Compromise
I think the best option for you right now is to keep building your idea and to keep a close eye on The Czech Republic as they try to build a Socialist society. It should help us see what works and what doesn't work when it comes down to it. Also I recommend taking on some Right-Wingers to develop your idea. This will probably help you get the idea more accepted and far more plausible. I’m not saying you should take this completely away from Socialism but just taking it a little bit farther away. Like I said I don't believe complete Socialism is possible in the game. However I think if you start slow and build it up, you will get it pretty damn close and won't screw over eIreland at the same time.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but take it as constructive criticism. We all know some sort of change is needed in Ireland and I applause you for trying to create it. I just think your current proposal is a little too extreme for this game and this country.
Thank you,
Michael Hook
Current Co-Minister of Immigration
Former Minister of Immigration x2
Former CO of the IDF Tank Division
Former Member of the Dail x4
Former Deputy Minister of New Citizens x1
Former Minister of Health x2
Former CO of the 3rd Regulars
Facebook
Twitter
Discord
Comments
I agree on a lot of points. Socialism is great for small groups, especially tight military units who already have established Capitalist Interests abroad bringing in the gold to finance their operations. But your average player who sets up a company wants to see a profit to finance their personal gaming. Not share the little with the many. Micro-Socialism is fine.
Macro? Not so much. Good article Mike.
Micro-socialism? I've never thought socialism this way. That's a nice PoV. I should admit that trying socialism in eRepublic is a real struggle since this platform is based on capitalistic ways of profit. I should add, being in the Cabinet of Czech Socialist Republic, that a socialist state attempt should be supported by a plenty of cash flow, because taxes cause a huge inflation in the first place. This can be achieved by money supply from the government until a point.
The important thing starts at this point. Here, the question is: "Is the private sector still strong enough to play out of the State's rule?" If the answer is yes, the attempt is a fail, try again later. But, if the answer is no and the state companies rule both the job and goods markets, there will be a balance between prices and wages. And also communal organization of companies should have the ability to provide food, weapon and ticket to everyone, at least to enoguh people to sustain the economy.
Anyways, all welcome to CSR to experience "macro-socialism.
Thanks for the response chorrito. Much appreciated. However my question for you is with eIreland's current situation, how do you see Socialism working. How do you justify for the thousands of gold lost by it's citizens. I understand that a balance between prices and wages will be reached and you will be able to sustain the people with food, weapon, etc.. But why change our current state from a society that works and sustains itself (to the degree you've described) to another society that works and sustains itself but runs against game mechanics and has this gold lost of the citizens as the cost.
Well this game throws pure socialism and capitalism out the window. The game is set up under Capitalistic principals but each country has state businesses and supports the new players with socialistic programs to help keep the nation strong. Both philosophies have to adapt a little.
In my personal opinion, it's a matter of proving that something different from what the game mechanics impose can be achieved. We're having fun this way, because it's more struggling than the normal way. This may be a reason for eIrish, too. Breaking the system's restrictions?
We'd be so glad to see socialism is working in eIreland, too. But, all countries will decide their own future themselves. Our state is still a young one; and we're trying to establish our economic, social and legal order. I'm also waiting for the results; but I think we have some advantages like having a comprehensive plan to overcome difficulties and we have experienced members of government who knows the game mechanics well and knows the soft spots of it and also a dedicated people behind us.
I hope eIreland will get what it deserves in the future.
Good night, time for bed
Fair enough chorrito. Glad to hear your side of things.
Strange enough Hook, i support you seanad idea and connolly's idea....
i believe that your "seanad" idea has to be implemented..
it strikes me as bring huge amounts of fairness and reward to the ppl who really work in ireland and a way to adminster and manage the TD's....
That's perfectly okay and I'm actually glad to hear it. It shows that you make your opinions based on the content rather then the person releasing it. You can't say the same for a lot of people in eIreland. I always knew I liked you 😉.
@Anthony, granted the state businesses, but those are pure welfare. Even a properly run socialist system relies on Capitalist principles to make a profit (in RL) but state run businesses are for pure retention purposes at a loss to the state (usually).
Eire Aontaithe is a supporter of micro-socialism. As we have been a Labour supporter in the past, and engage in some microsocialist ideals ourselves.
@MH tnx for responce at first.
I wil make a small comment about companies. From a ingame research, there are
393 companies in Ireland atm, 18 are for sale, makes
375 are not for sale.
1/2 of them are totally inactive, that makes a
190 that have at least 1 worker. After that more than half of them have less that 5 workers. meaning they under-produce. this takes us to a
90 companies that are full working.
Every body knows that good bosses have companies that cover all the product line, e.g. grain-food. With a conservative calculatiion we fall to
60-70 orgs with active companies in full throttle
meaning 70 citizens ( i dont think we have many orgs with multiple owners)are buisenessmen/women
Ireland has 1106 citizens. I could say that active and two clickers are half. lets make this 500.
So you say, that it is fair for the 70 to screw the fun for the 400?
Where are these figures from?
and you did not account for any state owned or organization owned companies.... I am sure those would be interesting to see if they are inactive or active...
if the figures are true, it seems the economy is not doing particularly well.
Would be very interesting to compare it with another country, i.e. UK.
also, on another note, capitalism is not a unified ideology and actually serves not so well as a universal timeless "bad guy".
@ekane
i took them from info -> rankings. Its free for everybody. If i putted state companies in, the number of private sector would fall even more...
Thanx for the info 🙂
Information is gold, and I will be digging enthusiastically later today 😃
How are the 70 screwing the fun for the 400?
If a fair, carefully calculated, socialist policy is implemented, then no one gets screwed. The role of the government is to ensure that all participants are rewarded in proportion to their contribution to the nation as a whole. This will mean that the entrepreneurs will still make more money than the average assembly line worker, but will ensure that the power inherent in the position of employer does not get abused to further benefit the employer at the expense of the employee.
You must be careful not to confuse socialism with communism (Which assumes that all individuals will contribute equally, regardless of presence or absence of incentive), nor to confuse the soviet system with actual communism.
What Donovan might be referring to is the phenomena sometimes called the "rule of 150" or "Dunbar's number" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
The major stumbling block to the successful implementation of macro socialism is its very small allowance for error on the part of the government. Very similar to the way a fully capitalist, open market system does not account for the fallibility of private sector leaders.
I do not yet know enough about eRepublic nor eIreland to attempt to apply any of this to either of them, but I hope that this information will be helpful to the people who will be making these decisions.
Thanks Dealanach, as I said I have respect for Socialism in the real world because it can work and be beneficial if administered correctly. Here I think the game mechanics prevent it from being anything close to practical.
As an aside: Capitalism differs from Mercantilism in the presence of investment banking as well as the concept of credit. Mercantilism differs from a barter system via the use of a common currency to allow complex, multi-party exchanges without all parties being present for a single event. Simple example: Fisherman gives a fish to the toolmaker, who replaces a broken arrowhead for the hunter, who gives some fresh meat to the fisherman. The currency is, itself, supposed to serve as 'proof of payment.'
The ability to acquire a loan to serve as the seed of a new business removes an otherwise almost-inconquerable hurdle standing between the poorest members of a community and financial self-determination. This doesn't mean that the majority of investment bankers aren't every bit as greedy as Marx describes, but it does justify their continued existence, at least in my opinion.
what do i mean by screw/ My calculations say that we have 70 citizens that are the private sector in Ireland. An MH, you tell me that we should not drive them out of business... but they are minority...
Then why not keep our current system and screw over no one. There is nothing stopping you from running your collectives but to stop others from running their businesses would be a bad idea for Ireland.
GDP = Public Sector + Private sector
Kill either and the GDP goes down.