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Oh my god, 20 NLG in a Q1 manufacturing for a skill 6+?
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But..wait... I was paid 19 NLG when I was skill 4.5. It's a shame, rise more his salary!
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And moreover, state companies aren't only here for train, some make profits too.

@jofroi - "New Liberty puts it to you, common citizen, that these are your jobs and your rightful opportunities that are being traded unfairly between high level players"

why is that unfair?
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The wages aren't particularly high...

So much for governmental/industrial transparency.

I think what Thomas want to say is that UNL companies should be also there to train newcommers and young citizens. But the state has other companies for that no?

I am a little bit disappointed in you Thomas you could have asked for clarification by coming to me or Theneka. Frankly i think you just made a fool of yourself by this article. But please let me explain what happend.

Theneka needed a job and we at UNL Moving need employees. We, the whole country, also need MT's because we are low on MT's and might have to move people in case of an invasion. So I offered Theneka a job. Theneka is skill 6.48 so 20 NLG isnt a high salary or neither low.

So what is the scandale? I gave someone a job?

FYI publishing IRC conversations is not allowed so if i push the report button admins could remove this. I will not do that but just so you know.

@Mitch - " Frankly i think you just made a fool of yourself by this article"

The article is written by the party, and I dont rule the party with an iron fist. My first responsibility is to the party, and the party wanted this published, which I agreed with.

Why couldnt this job have been advertised so anyone could have taken it? And incidentally, a quick scan of the pay for level 6-6.99 manual skill workers puts them at about 18NLG.

"FYI publishing IRC conversations is not allowed so if i push the report button admins could remove this. I will not do that but just so you know"

I thank you for your support of free speech.

Is there any troubles in the government ?
That is called transparency...

Interesting...
xD

There were plenty of job openings in UNL Moving and the salary for a skill 6 was 18 at the moment. However, Theneka is skill 6.48 so should earn more then 18 NLG as we pay skill 7 around 21-22 i suggested to give Theneka 20 NLG. I dont think that is very high considering we pay someone with similar skill level 32 NLG in UNL Weapons Q5

So what is the corruption here you talk about? Me giving someone a job? Or according to you (market says differently) overpaying by 2 NLG?

Is LP in the governement?

Another question why publish it here and not in congress on the forum?

Fi you truly believe that what i did is corruption then ask for my resignation in congress. Surely you dont want a corrupt secretary of State Companies.

I am more and more starting to believe that this is some sensational article without any base or goal.

That remind me the time when Theneka were fired as advisor😁.

@Mitch - "So what is the corruption here you talk about? Me giving someone a job? Or according to you (market says differently) overpaying by 2 NLG?"

What we take issue with is that this job was offered and taken out of the public eye, without fair competition for it. If this were a private company then that would be totally acceptable, but UNL Moving is a public concern which requires transparency.

"Fi you truly believe that what i did is corruption then ask for my resignation in congress"

This is not a witch hunt, and I believe that such witch hunts dont achieve anything - note how we specifically chose not to name names in the article. All that the party is asking for is government transparency, in the spirit of which this article was published.

Thomas Fairfax there were job offers on the moment when Theneka asked. Besides this happend in #eUNL the public channel. How is that not a public thing???

Thomas, does LP asking a job article for each job proposed by Eunl states company (exepted training companies)?

I have read the article and i don't see a problem or corruption.

Guy gets a job at the statecompanies (unl moving didn't have enough employees), wage is increased.

MT's are important for the army, citizens who want to move out of the belgian regions.

20 NLG for skill 6? Fellow, you could earn at least the double...

If this is in the #eUNL-chan, there is no harm to publish it. That's called transparency. But still, I don't get the problem. There is no corruption here...

As a company manager, I can say that I pay the fair wage of around skill*3 for good employees. If I put an offer of Skill 4 at 12 NLG, and somebody joins with 4.5 skills, I immediately raise the 12 NLG to 3 * 4,5 = 13.5 NLG (if wellness is near 100). So above is more or less market conform for a salary.

PS: Probably this was discussed in the #eUNL channel, so it's not really something that both persons wanted to be a secret anyway 😛

I would say: case closed!

Not corruption, not voted!

what a silly article. 20 bucks for a skill of 6.48 is around 3 bucks per skill point, that is average if not below average.

This is not free speech, this is gossip.

If I may comment I think we all miss some perspective here, The person asking for the job is paid quite much (2 NLG over normal salaries as a commenter above put it) But yet the state is in need of gold for MPP's. Doesn't that seem a bit wrong to you? Asking the citizens for money so the government can keep paying ridiculous wages and do what they want?

And to reply to Mitch Rapp's surprising line.

"FYI publishing IRC conversations is not allowed so if i push the report button admins could remove this. I will not do that but just so you know."

The article is meant to gather more support against state companies, see above comment. And what kind of minister replies with such thing, it's a thread to a censored IRC conversation. This is clearly not the way to handle discussions.

Either way, (sorry for the triple comment, I'm afraid text will be lost due to some limit).

The newspaper may have misused the word corruption, but unfair could easily and surely take its place.

As minister of state companies,
I'm disappointed by article. And thats me saying it nicely.

You can read my comments in my article.

State should pay CLA, no more no less. Paying more is just donating tax money. MY tax money. If one wants to earn more: GET A REAL JOB! If there are none: fix the market, dont let the citizens pay.

Even if statecompanies serve a purpose (other then training) it is very strange a salary is raised on asking. If this is normal procedure then consider this my job request. Just let me know the company to apply to. I would like a wage of 30NLG please. Thank you.

This is just crap. Mudtrowing in the worst form, without any reason nor ground of accusation. For your info, I come from a company where I got 31NLG for working there, and if I look to the job market, the pay for a lvl 6 manu is somewhere around 18 (max 18.5 NLG). So perhaps I'm wrong when I say that those 2NLG's are just making up the 0.5 skill I have more than lvl 6? Or is this just the vision of the LP on the job market? Do u want wages that can give u just enough to buy bread with?

@signup: If that were the case noone would work for the state. That would mean no weapons for defense meaning we would need to buy everything from the market. That would mean an increase in taxes.

Piece of advice for the LP: get your facts straight!

And an other ad😛 if I shud be payed minimum wage, that's 4NLG if I'm not mistaking? than how would I be able to buy stuff on the market? Just buying food would kill my budget. Is this the way of freedom so chariched by the LP? How can one buy expensive goods now you have increased the taxes to 'support the state' and one only gets payed a minimum wage?

Holland hasn't changed a single bit, hasn't it? I left this country because people were arguing over someone's dog not taking his crap on exactly the right spot and here we are, exactly the same thing!

And it seems this isn't only Dutch politics but Belgian too as there are probably Belgian people commenting too here.

Let me tell you, in India I got offered higher salaries than most people openly, why? Because I was a good worker and yes I am a friend of a lot of people. What's wrong with helping your friends? Those 2 extra NLG you pay him daily won't ruin the country will they? So why the hell are we arguing about this? Because it's about power, people want power power and more power and that's the exact reason why stupid little arguments like this come out, doing nothing but wasting time.

Anyway that's my opinion 🙂

No, you should be paid 2 times skill (incl. behind digit, so 6.48 x 2) according to this law: http://www.enetherlands.nl/viewtopic.php?f=174&t=3563" target="_blank">http://www.enetherlands.nl/viewtopic.php[..]3563

However, that is a MINIMUM. Three times skill is perfectly normal in the current market. Yes, there are companies paying less, but that's their problem.

I don't think the height should be a point of discussion here. IF you really want to discuss something, discuss the way it was done...

... which - in a public channel - is also perfectly fine with me, by the way.

Or use the forum?

@Auggustus: That is the whole idea. Statecompanies are to competative for dutch citizens to start their own company. There enough private weapon companies to provide guns. I rather see my taxmoney spend on helping private business then "well payed jobs" at statecompanies.

Perhaps the LP party is making a bit of a big thing out of this but the fact remains: it is strange a high wage is offerd to certain ppl just because they ask for a job. In this I have to agree with the LP party, some guidelines on statecompany wages would be nice.

That is plain bullocks..

State companies aren't competitive.. Almost all prices of the state are higher then the market.. Often most of the time the company is made to build something (like hospital defence or weapons) or to train people for the market (like food and houses).. How can this possibly be wrong for the market?? Training companies payout CLA minimum. Other companies who needs to produce need good employees.. This isn't managed by sending off a minimum wage offer..

Also if there weren't any state companies I can assure you new babies will stay jobless..

One of the main functions of a statecompany is to provide jobs for babies. But Puc, don't you agree that a citizen with a 6+ jobskill is NOT a baby?

As I have stated MANY times there are differences in the state companies: Training, defense and finance. The only thing that the defense and finance are competing with is the job market. Not the free market. Competition in the job market is normal, plus they provide jobs for things that are necessary!

"But Puc, don't you agree that a citizen with a 6+ jobskill is NOT a baby?"

well, in this particular case... 😛

I believe that alot of this problem could be solved with better publicity for the state companies. The deal can appear to be a little shady, because people were not aware that they could apply to work at the state companies. I know that anyone can contact the minister, but the fact is that alot of newer players dont know who that minister is, or what they are really applying for. Better publicity, or an explanation of what the state companies are and what they do would help avoid this kind of problem.

Thomas fairfax, there is an other way to solve the problem : good worker get out...

@thomas- Please explain one how we can make state companies more "open to the public". Do you want to see a list of everyones wages, or have a list on expenses and expendatures? Or do you want me to have the passes handed out to everyone so they can see whats going on. I mean state companies are part of the government and the government is for the people. So technically everyone owns a part of the state companies so it would therefore only be fair that everyone had all the passwords! Or is that too open? Where do you draw the line? Show me a solution!

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/state-companies-agenda-december-2009-1075176/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/stat[..]1/20

article about state companies btw.

This discussion just keeps on going. Replying to Broodrooster though, what you wrote is a load of fucking bollocks.

Thanks Mighty, great addition to this discussion 🙂

I actually agee 100% with what broodrooster says. The politics in eUNL is pointless.

(I would agree with handing out the passes. That would be democracy xD but than I want to be the first to plunder them. Lol.)
*Hits Boklevski*

And wow, 20NLG sure is a lot. U know, all economic crises are caused by something called 'overproduction'. I think you might have heard of that before. That means people can't buy all that is produced because they don't get payed enough (see marx's theories on meerwaarde, no idea what it is in english). In this case, I can buy 2 Q1 guns and a Q3 bread with my wage... That's not realy much, is it?

@Auggustus - "I actually agee 100% with what broodrooster says. The politics in eUNL is pointless"

I totally agree that you shouldnt have to respond to comments that are just profanity, and swearing is really the last resort of a low vocabulary.

But saying the politics is pointless makes the government look very patriarchical to new players.