Domestic Abuse on US Businesses
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by KC Michaels
In this article I'm not going to go into the specifics of how our taxes are set and why and where I believe they should be altered. This article deals specifically with the mindset of the people setting our policies. Let me state up front that I don't think the people setting these policies are bad people or trying to sabotage the US. I even agree with the policies for the time and situation they were set at, but times and situations change.
1) Many parts of our tax policy were set during times of crisis.
2) Things have changed since then; both in the US market and with the game itself. Lana and paid training being the biggie that has forever changed the economic dynamics of eRepublik unless it is removed.
3) Through these changes our tax policies have remained the same.
4) The people setting our tax policies don't want domestic companies to be profitable and do everything they can to make sure this is true.
You heard me right, the people setting our tax policies do everything they can to make it so domestic companies cannot turn a profit.
One more time for effect, the people setting our tax policies don't want US companies to make any profit.
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5914/taxes.jpg " alt="Shake domestic businesses" title=" Shake domestic businesses " width="300" />
There are two citizens in particular who shape our policy, Sydiot and One Eye. And they have a very defined role they think citizens and businesses should play.
Citizens - Buy guns, use guns, and be happy!
Domestic Businesses - Keep citizens employed!
That is it. According to them if you are attempting to do anything besides these very simple things you are role playing, wasting gold, and helping to make eAmerica suck. If you want to run a profitable business, do it in a foreign country. I can feel a lot of people are saying there is no way these things I am saying are true. Honestly, I wouldn't have believed these statements if some random article was saying them about two respected members of our government. How in the world can people in prominent positions in our government feel this way? How can they not want to embrace US companies?
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7189/juliannehoughflagtwo2la.jpg " alt="Embrace domestic businesses" title=" Embrace domestic businesses " width="300" />
Luckily for me I have evidence to back up my claims in the form of quotes I have taken from each of them on the official US forums (eusforum.com) in the economy section. You can easily verify these statements were said by them for yourself.
Quotes from Sydiot –
Don't ask me why other countries don't adopt this plan, I've tried for months to get our allies to come on board, at least in weapons imports. They operate under the false assumption that GM profits are good for [a] country.
Supply trumps 'native' profits until unemployment becomes a problem.
Businesses owners can move their companies elsewhere if they're not profitable
People get all up in a tizzy when I say 'If I had my way, businesses would make no money at all."
It's so obvious that business owners are pissed because they can't gouge our citizens during periods of high demand. Sorry dudes. [my note – and by gouge he meant sell at a price that gave a small profit since there is no other way to make a profit right now]
they[company owners] have to take advantage of wrinkles in efficiency in order to profit personally. That's just the way it is.
wrinkles in our own market efficiency to provide opportunities for profit is bad
assuming that by 'peoples can make money'you mean workers, because ideally GMs should experience a zero profit
I believe that we should do everything we can to maximize ideal conditions for damage and train players how to play the game the way that best makes our country more powerful through bigger and bigger damage. Some others think the game is for playing in, developing, investing in and cultivating according to their personal gameplay goals.
Quotes from One Eye –
We still need to buy the guns, gifts and food, but we shouldn't make them.
The player who spends all their money on weapons, food, and gifts are the best citizens a country could ever ask for.
The players who hoard their first 20g only to open another Q1 company are equally culpable in making our nation suck.
Buy guns and shoot people.
Buy guns and shoot people.
Buy guns and shoot people.
Buy guns and shoot people.
Buy guns and shoot people.
Buy guns and shoot people.
If we want to increase retention we need to focus on what we can change. We can change people's expectations:
'buy guns, use guns, and be happy'
True Patriots run overseas companies.
True patriots start companies overseas.
Again forget about what the tax policies are and why and just focus on the mindset. These are the two people most in charge of defining our domestic economy.
Are you a citizen who is happy buying guns and using them and that is all? Are you a business owner who is happy knowing you are keeping citizens employed and all that time spent training new citizens about wellness and other parts of the game and trying to at least breakeven will most likely never happen? If so good for you! If not, don't expect things to change with these people running the economy.
Many people have complained to Sydiot and One Eye and they shrug them off saying those people are playing the game wrong and if their ideas were followed it would make eAmerica suck. Keep in mind these radical ideas are already used by every other nation out there besides us. All those who think Spain, Poland, Romania, Croatia, Greece, Sweden, and Canada suck raise your hand. I don’t think many hands went up, expect maybe Phoenix people who might be reading.
I may or may not do another article about the specific tax set up and why I think it is wrong. To be honest, it doesn't really matter, the thing that matters most is the attitude displayed and such a narrow mindset</strong> from people in <strong>pivotal positions over our domestic economy.
Hopefully things will change before the lights go out completely on the USA economy.
Thanks for reading and best of luck!
"Concern for man and his fate must always form the chief interest of all technical endeavors. Never forget this in the midst of your diagrams and equations."
-Albert Einstein
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voted and subbed!
wow... I claim SHENANIGANS on part of Sydiot and One-eye. eMericka should hold true the beliefs of its RL counter-part. Capitalism, and free enterprise. Why put in an economic system, if they want no-part of it? And then turn around and tell us that we are playing it wrong.
I think they are SPAIS!!!
V
Antagonistic much?
THEY NO WANTS YOU TO MAKE MONIEZ!
Because a strategy is used by our allies does not mean we need to adopt it for eAmerica.
Oh come on...you must be intentionally misconstruing the facts here, because the alternative is...sad.
Insightful.
@Josh
If anything they are PROMOTING free trade and capitalism by not barring the markets to foreign countries and citizens.
Here's a new quote for you:
Not all businesses should succeed.
@Devoid
I'm not sure how I or anyone can misconstrue the statements THEY made. Feel free to check the statements I quote and many others THEY have made on the economy section of the eUS forums.
And yes it is sad. 🙁
So you have the permission of both these members of congress to use the quotes? Cause if not you have violated an erep rule whether i like the smear article or not.
Thanks for the insightful article. There is a flaw in your diatribe though. It's not that I want companies to make zero profit or even little profit. It's just that it's impossible to increase GM profits through tax changes.
The citizenry of the US has more than 1 in 10 who wish to be a GM. But the game mechanics limit profitable companies to 1 for every 10 citizens. So the surplus of GMs in the US forces companies to compete savagely for employees and sales. The result is razor thin profits. Again these razor thin profits are a result of game mechanics and there is nothing the govt, or anybody can do to fix it.
If we enacted zero taxes, the competition of the market would still drive profits to razor thin margins.
There is nothing the government can do via taxes to change the imbalance of GMs to citizens, but there is something GMs can do. Open a company in a foreign land. Yes, this will reduce the number of companies vying for workers in the US, and that will relieve some pressure on GM profits. Not only that you'll be able to siphon money away from another nation and bring it to the US. So yes, true patriots start overseas companies.
I hereby give KC Michaels permission to quote anything I post in the eUS forums. I'm not sure he needs it because the forums are public, so it's not a private conversation.
@JeremyR
If I was quoting anything that was sent to me in private or on a private forum I would agree with you.
Posting something on a public forum though makes it...well...public.
there liberals what would you expect from them?
Its up to them to be anti republican and that means anti business. they want a stronger government At the cost of business's.
Nothing anyone can do about it though. Just like hospitals you just can't fight dogma.
What One Eye said.
Taxes come out of employee's paychecks, not from businesses. Game rules make it so companies work best at 10 employees, meaning that only 1/10 of the country can own a business.
In the USA, we're way over 1/10. Not only that, but we have way too many of some industries (see: Q1 anything).
I wish businesses could make more money, but it's not possible with the game rules the way they are. Blame the admins, not the government.
kc i only object because those comments although they were made are taken out of context i think a link to the forum with those postings would have been more appropriate
Excellent article, thank you for sharing. Thanks also to One Eye for the explanation of why you have your views. I still disagree to a certain extent, but some of what you say does make sense (i.e. making companies elsewhere).
Also, see this article:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/newspaper/eworld-trade-centar-180920/1" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/newspaper/ew[..]20/1
Yes, we have some of the highest taxes in the world. However, we get more revenue from it (and almost all of it goes either to fund the military or battle/war fees).
One Eye: Thank you for your clarifying comments. Now that they have been elaborated I can see where you are coming from.
Anaros: Thank you for your alternate opinion. The situation that One Eye has pointed out, would actually deter free trade (Which wasn't an argument of mine). They would swamp foreign countries and create the same situation over here.
I think that the V2 update will definitely allow for a more dynamic economic environment. Having different manufacturing jobs will create marketplace diversity and specialization. I think it will cut down on the GM to worker ratio. Especially when it gives current GMs the option to specialize first.
I also think that they should put a competition system. A system that lets potential GMs take a look at the environment and allow them to say "You know what? I don't think so..."
Commerce is theft and profit is a crime. Obedience, discipline and constant war are the only answer.
OMG!!! Thank you. I have been saying this for weeks. There is no possible way to make a profit. I've been trying to sell my company because the only way i can actually make a profit, is to underpay my employees to the extent that they'd have to starve. It's ridonculous. Screw the eUS economy. I just relocated to Iran, yeah that's right. Freaking Iran. And i actually can salvage the losses i took here soon.
Oops, I meant this link:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/do-you-know-how-much-your-country-earn-every-day-from-you--1203755/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/do-y[..]/1/20
JeremyR
Unfortunately they are buried in HUGE EPIC threads that the majority of people wouldn't care enough to go through if I just posted a link to the forum or even the individual posts.
I can assure you the sentiments I quote are how they really feel, if not they have a chance here to say so.
As I say in the article I don't hate One Eye and Sydiot, I just strongly feel people should know what their mindset is since they have SO much power in setting our policies.
Link to the forum in case anyone wants to read more of the discussions -
http://eusforum.com/index.php/board,34.0.html" target="_blank">http://eusforum.com/index.php/board,34.0[..]html
As someone who has been in on an awful lot of these conversations, I can say that you've left out an awful lot of context.
ok then you may want to talk about the congressional mindset on hospitals as well and by the way i withdraw my concern http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/i-can-t-haz-more-hospitals--1207487/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/i-ca[..]1/20
what about raising import taxes?
Greene12 9 minutes ago
what about raising import taxes?
Dude, don't even go there... It's not going to happen with the current group of leaders.
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PUBLIUS FIST
COPY AND PASTE THIS PUBLIUS FIST AND SEND IT TO 5 OF YOUR FRIENDS OR YOU'RE NOT A REAL PUBLIUS
@Olive Tree/Samuel Seabury
Use the monetary market. That's how business owners avoid taxes.
Nice well written article. Very civil on both sides of the issue. Can't ask for more. If you want to run a business in the USA you have to be way smart and you need to counter balance it with companies in other countries. Going all America is a business disaster.
"😉ude, don't even go there... It's not going to happen with the current group of leaders."
then its time for a change.
whats P classic about this whole mess is now citizens are making NOTHING.....no gold no stuff.and their stating this. yet
our glorious leaders REFUSE to look at any adjustments and continue to spout gold>stuff
Running the largest cooperative militia in the US, I have to say I like the current system, as misguided and oblivious to economic principles as it is. I have no competition for my people, because none of the jobs out there pays enough for them to leave. So just keep chanting "stuff > gold." It's bad for business, but awesome for me.
This was the best freaking article and comment discussion in at least a month...
Not even the last 2 presidential elections have touched upon why the way things are, are the way they are. :3
Voted and subbed!
Also, great job at explaining things in simple terms one-eye, ligtreb, and great enigmatic quote, sydiot 😃
"Commerce is theft and profit is a crime. Obedience, discipline and constant war are the only answer." this is the only thing I have a problem with. I cant be sure if Sydiot is serious but blowing resources means they go away. I think it would be kinda cool if gun prices were so low everyone could afford Q5. I don't like the idea of having wars just to make people feel obligated to buy weapons at a higher rate. Let the prices fall. everything will get used anyway. Perhaps if you didn't blow all the gold in the world they wouldn't fall.
I am kinda getting sick of warring it up and feeling obligated to buy weapons. There may come a time when I stop. Technically new people need to rank up more and heavy hitters need to save and become heavier. I don't mind giving newer players more value for their money. I certainly won't be responding to wars that are a stimulous to spend it is like crying wolf. When you cant afford it don't.
I think my new rule of thumb is only fight with weapons for allies and only if DOD recommends.
KC, very well written article. I believe that domestic business owners are also not helped by the low import taxes. Not only do the low import taxes create competition that our domestic companies can't handle. It also provides a chance for foreign countries to suck USD out of the USA economy.
The only problem is the amazing inflation. I'm not very involved in this game so I can't suggest a solution but I know enough about Economics as a science to understand that wages are not increasing anywhere near 39% (inflation rate) and so we have a REAL GDP that is plummeting like crazy.
Epic epic article.
We do have 'zero' taxes -- it's called the import tax. Meanwhile, loyal eUS workers pay 20% tax plus consumers pay 8% to 20%. It's not equitable, it's not just and it's not sustainable.
The 'one in 10' argument doesn't quite fit because there are many fully staffed companies with mathematically astute GMs who are struggling to stay afloat.
Face it: the eUS worker is the golden goose. Kill that and you kill all the epicness you think damage and conquest bring. As crumbling activity levels show, that's the way we're moving.
When you can't win battles even though you're giving out govt Q1s to every citizen who asks, that's a good sign you have more tax dollars than damage to deal.
Lies. Lol I am proud of my domestic and overseas companies
The 20% tax is strangling us small business owners. Granted, my company was in a bloated industry (oil) I eventually had to shut down because I was simply making zero profit. Every day I had to adjust my wages and prices, generally with wages going up and prices going down. Then, when I do manage to get a bit of scratch in the coffers, and want to take it out, 20% is taken from me. For what? To give every Tom, Dick and Harry a gun to go throw themselves in an uncoordinated fashion at a massive wall in Heilonjiang or London?
Oh, and all that money we spend not only as a government (whose money came from us citizens), but as citizens on guns when we are told to, gets wasted because we lose a battle or two and just give up. Has the acquisition of a LEASE on Karnataka offset the costs of the Asian and English campaigns? Doubt it.
Oh, and instead of playing the money markets to evade my taxes, I'd like to just give my government a FAIR portion of my earnings rather than have to snake my way out of my responsibility. If the rates were fair, people wouldn't try to avoid them. Real patriots pay their taxes.
Well, all fine and good. There's a reason to be in business ..but what's the other shoe that must drop here?
"I'd really like to not go to prison"
"Oh, someone always has to go to prison".
"That which is not specifically excluded is 100% mandatory"
"I've never seen a left without a right, front without a back, top without a bottom. What's the "other side" to this story?"
Very interesting
I feel the eUS could spend some more money on programs that help small business owners. We spend all of our budget on military. We also need a strong economy too.
Bottom line is that the game needs to implement more real world consequences for businesses. Companies should be more expensive to start up. Then if you run out of money you should be able to run negative and if you do you will go bankrupt and lose that company.
There is zero risk in owning a company. Zero risk means infinite competition. All that comp. drives prices down to unprofitable amounts. I am in the Gift business and I just dont know how some of these companies can offer there Gifts at the prices they do. Most will eventuality run out of money. If so then what? Nothing they just wait for there citizen to make some gold and then start right back up again. They should lose the company. that would reduce the number of companies competing and start to drive prices back up to manageable levels.
Another idea is to allow the governments to issue out licenses for companies. If you want to buy a company then you petition the government. They then can issue out a license to you which allows you to buy the company. I hate that idea but it would control the company to employee ratio to an efficient number.
Moral of the story here is that One Eye is right. Tax policy will do little to fix the problem. One thing they could do in the mean time is make it unprofitable for foreign companies to sell in American markets. Tax imports more and get the foreign Comp out. We dont need the comp. right now so why allow them in? THey are only making it more diff for eUS companies at the moment.
Pro tip...
Use monetary market to avoid tax............................
profit.
gee where have i heard this before? hmmmm....
Nice article, voted & sub'd!
voted and sub
I agree full heartedly, and wrote an article on this exact premise. The problem is that a lot of congressmen and people who make decisions own foreign companies with those cheap 5 gold import licenses they acquired during some pre-planned territory flop, thus allowing them to personally make money more easily. The motivation for it not changing is as simple as croneyism and self-advancement.
Frost responded to a msg I sent him last month before announcing a candidacy and said he thought import taxes should be raised. then, in order to gain the support of the croneys (Sydiot in particular), he switched positions despite knowing its bad for the country.
I, however, have found the solution to this problem: TAKE YOUR INVESTMENT DOLLARS ELSEWHERE. DO NOT INVEST IN THE UNITED STATES. My money is in Poland now, and my company over there is much more profitable than the one I sold off here. I've almost made back all the money I earned trying to operate in the US
I might have to follow suit considering the plummeting price of gifts in the eUS.
"If we enacted zero taxes, the competition of the market would still drive profits to razor thin margins.
There is nothing the government can do via taxes to change the imbalance of GMs to citizens"
The 300lb elephant that nobody on the "lower import taxes" seems to grasp. You can continue to blame import taxes all you want, but I still have not heard an argument that supports any change.