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Increase taxes, i say so that we can pay more things than just MPP's.

Tax dollars go to MPPs.
Tax revenues are plenty to keep up with our MPP needs.

If you wish to support any MU, then feel free to donate to that MU. Tax dollars do not go to MUs, and tax dollars should not go to MUs.

I see a lot of claims but none arguments. Why shouldn't money go to MU's? They fight for Ireland. Stronger they get, stronger the Ireland get's. Basic logic.

And one question: Why don't we have an MPP with Canada currently?

Plenty to keep up with our MPP needs. Yeah right.

lol Bhane, taxes don't even cover a quarter of our MPPs.

and the Govt can fund MUs if and when it wishes.

good article, awkors.

Yes... plenty of tax revenue to keep up with our MPP needs.
Your math is flawed, so your revenue estimate is completely wrong.


I will tell you why MUs should not be state funded.

Let us look at a fictional MUx. The leader of MUx wants to be state funded to give out more supplies. His members work in a commune, so they pay no taxes of consequence. he wants to give them more supplies than they create, with tax supplements. Since his members pay no tax, he is basically withdrawing from the system, without ever paying into it. He wants more supplies, but he just wants everyone else to pay for them.

There is no way a distribution of funds to MUs will be fair. The people in charge of the distribution will develop some sort of reasoning behind their methods of choosing which MU gets how much. But it will inherently play favorites. Do you give the same to all MUs? Then the small MUs are getting more goods per person. Do you distribute based on membership? Then the MU with more inactives gets a benefit. Also, the larger MU gets a lot more, even though they probably already have more resources of their own.

When their are public funds being distributed, there will always be a fight for control of the distribution. That leads to political schisms, and patriot infighting.

What about the people that are not in MUs? Should they pay into a system that gives them ZERO benefits while other people get free stuffs?

The most fair thing to do is to maintain our modest tax revenue that is sufficient for MPPs, and not have politicians start distributing money to whomever they decide to favor.

Public funds need to only go for MPPs. That is the only thing that is truly equally beneficial to all citizens.


I have been tracking revenues/expenditures longer than you know.
Our revenue is perfect. It is big enough to pay for the MPPs we need, with some occasional private funds to help. It is small enough to not create a surplus that scoundrels might be tempted to abscond with.

omg, bhane you took the time to write all that and it's all completely wrong. How sad for you.

You are adorable as ever, Haugh.

Nice article Trodaire.
I'm gonna go with Bhane on this one. Not about the MMP coverage since I have no idea if our funds cover them but on the political fighting that results from the government supporting one group over another and about the absconding part.

only not to long ago sweet was saying that we were quickly running out of cash for MPP's and i asked both you and sweet about tax revenue and i was told we make 1k a day on revenue which is enough for 3 MPP's

Actually, the revenue has increased a bit since then, Adriano.

I have some theories why it has been happening, but no evidence yet. I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. It's good for Eire.

Bhane

Very easy way of distributing funds is giving each unit IEP per person. Dividing member of units into several strength groups is easy way of giving funds to units.

For example - unit member between 100 - 1000 str get 20 IEP (just an example) etc.

MU members work in commune's anyway. There is no other way of financing. MU's can create a certain amount of weapons and food for themself. With the money Ireland gives them, they can buy weapns from the market or raw materials. That means that your whole theory about stoping money flow is wrong. Money has to be spent.

And it is not all in dimes and quarters Bhane. There are some things that don't have a price.

Bhane are you telling me our 1% tax rates take in over 100,000 IEP/month to pay for the MPPs we have? Your math is flawed, not mine.

You can claim it is unfair etc, but there is not much you can do to stop a President from funding whatever he wants. Sorry but that's the simple truth of it.

Either ways, as the majority of Ireland's active population are in a Mil Unit, more funds for MU's = more supplies for the citizenry. I can't see your opinion being very popular tbh as most people in e-Ireland like to fight in battles, so if they are getting more supplies they are hardly going say "oh I agree with Bhane, please stop giving me more supplies as I'd rather I got less supplies"

I never said 100,k anywhere.

I said our revenues covers our MPP needs. We need Canada and Croatia. After that it's nice to have the US, and another TEDEN country or two. We have enough to cover those MPPS. After that we can spend our surplus on other MPPs as needs arise.


So you are saying that all the Irishmen that participate in the economy should pay to supply themselves, AND pay to supply whichever MUs the administration may favor? No thank you.

Giving a set IEP amount per member is not a fair distribution formula. The MUs with more active members get less benefit per capita.

If you want to support MUs, then donate to them. They will distribute the goods to their members. That kind of voluntary system is completely fair.

Will you guys please stop trying to find a reason that average eIrish citizens should pay to supply the people that do not help fund our MPPs. (Communes pay no tax of consequence, so they do not contribute to the MPPs that they benefit from).

You guys can make up numbers all day, the bottom line has nothing to do with the math, anyway.

When you set up a system for distributing wealth, the power is in the hands of the distributors. The struggle for that power leads to schisms, and internal conflicts. the achievement of that power leads to corruption. It's better for the entire country if we simply allow the MUs to do their job, without any state interference.

There is a project underway to improve the coordination of Eire MUs.
Adding some sort of funding program will only disrupt that effort, and hurt our homeland in the long run. There will be conflicts, and favoritism (perceived and/or legit) that the MUs will argue over.

MU's argue?
/shakes head.
s'never gonna happen.

More people on channel during battles, more IEP. I don't see how this affects more active units?

You completely distort the truth. I know you want to protect your capitalistic empire and Ireland is merely second on your priority list. I for one can't and won't try to change your mind. Let the votes judge.

I can tell you are losing the argument. You are starting personal attacks.

I haven't even bothered to start arguing the business cycle and how it affects taxes to completely end your failure at revenue math. If your MU is having trouble, then pass the hat. I promise there will be a few benefactors that will donate a healthy sum. You can also write an article explaining your situation, and your need for some money. Spell out exactly how you plan to spend that money, and ask for public donations. You will probably get a couple philanthropists from the eIrish public to step up. No MU "needs" state funds, you just "want" state funds.

I have no capitalistic empire. I shut the doors of my businesses months ago. I spend ZERO currency on myself. All my IEP goes to the needs of eIreland, and the eIrish people. Trust me Trod... you do not want me to stop doing the work I do behind the curtain. Ask some veterans in your MU about me, before making wrong assumptions and questioning my patriotism. That is another argument you will lose.

I know what I'm talking about.
Using state moneyz to fund MUs will only lead to a bad end, eventually.

Bhane is right here, trod 😉

Anyone Who pays tax in Ireland is Mad .. Other than the income tax on min wage.

Yis are all Mad

great article and good debate. I think the long term goal of the goverment should be the increase our population. I think the goverment should subsidize new citizens to help the whole country. Giving tanks guns is good in short term for damage, giving food to new players is good long term. Would be nice to see a new goverment MU for players under a certain rank. They are dropped when they make say captain but are subsidized heavily before that. a training unit.

"MU members work in commune's anyway. There is no other way of financing."

This wouldnt be 100% true.
There are plentyful ways of financing MUs that do not involve communes.

The only thing MUs do is organize players. You don't need to finance them past the stage of paying to create them. Communes and supply networks are things that are common to MUs but aren't part of the definition.

At any rate, Bhane is right that the government shouldn't finance MUs for all the reasons he's already stated.

I see that a lot of you think MU's shouldn't be state funded but i still believe that the capacity of Irish MU's is by far greater, and it's optimum could be achieved only with state funds.

and Bhane - Land of Bhane: 53 buildings

I agree that MUs should receive funding from tax income - however dragging this argument to a personal level I certainly do not agree with.

And Trod - 0 employees.
I used to employ roughly 100 people until I had to shut down productions. Now I do my best to combat inflation so the import evaders can't completely price gouge the eIrish public. (I can stop spending my money on this fight if you like to spend 50 IEP on tanks).

You can believe that state funds should be distributed to the MUs. I can believe that state funds should stay out of private groups like MUs, and parties. We are allowed to disagree.

Open debate like this allows both sides to defend their positions in the light of public discourse. That allows undecided people to see the arguments on both sides of the fence and decide for themselves. I am glad you made this article, and that we could have this discussion.


As Stark sai😛 "There are plentyful ways of financing MUs that do not involve communes."
Trod, if you ask me, I will donate to the top 5 MUs. I will donate 1k to Libertad, IA, ICA, Labour, and EAMU, for a total of 5k IEP in donations. All you have to do is ask.

Tbh, I'm a little confused.
Which MU is actually asking for government money? I know for sure, it isn't us.
I think regular and untargeted funding is both unnecessary, and wrong.
When eIreland is under attack and needs defending, we need a supply (of e-cash, weaps and food) to fund those willing and able to throw in their damage. Any unused should be returned. Trusted foreign tanks should also be part of this allocation, on a purely bang-for-buck basis. We already assist visiting tanks with CS for NE bonuses, whether that is a good use of our CS passes is another strand that needs discussion.
I think most MU members have no interest in draining the country for personal gain...but hey, I believe in leprechauns, too.

I'm sorry to be rude, I'd really like to address this issue soon, but I just don't have the time to do it properly atm.

For now I must say: there is barely a statistic anywhere in this entire thread that is accurate 🙁 and that makes me very sad

However Grainne has the right strategy imo

Gimme the fuckin money!

The offer is to Trod, Ibhoy. He must ask, so that he can prove there are plenty of methods of MU funding outside of using tax dollars. I would also hope that he would show a bit more courtesy than you were able to muster. : P

I also need to apologize for neglecting to mention the Galloglass MU. That would be another 1k to them, for a total of 6k in MU donations.

Hmm, it's not MY strategy Sweet, it's just the way shit gets done most efficiently. Most soldiers here know that, for sure.
/shrug
Bhane, although the carrot and stick might be an interesting debate here, tbh with you Libertad-IRE doesn't really require a donation from you at this time. Thanks for the offer anyway.
Sure what would we do with it? Dole it out equally in cash, buy some supplies and distribute 'em, 30ish quid each won't do much else. Anything other that that is limited by the game, or subject to underhand shenanigans that most soldiers cant be arsed with anyway.
I'd rather know that when the shit hits the fan there's a stash for anyone reporting for duty, from popgun kids to bazookas beasts, and there's a team effort going on with some basic co-ordination.

Honestly, sometime things so SIMPLE get so COMPLICATED here. It's almost an unwritten exclusionist policy to keep everyone baffled or bored to death.
MU's like to fight, especially for their eHome or eFriend. When there's a war chest of money to spend in a crisis, they'll be around.
When there isn't, they'll be there self-funded anyway.
Never yet saw a bunch of tanks sitting on the sidelines waiting for a handout.
/another shrug

Only said that you 'had' it there.
Didn't say you owned the copyright /grin

😉
😛!

Xm. I think i am gonna make an article.

Trod, when i came to Ireland i worked for Bhane until i joined LA communes and he was probably the best employer i 've ever worked for. I remember i thought "this guy is bored of having money for sure".

No need for that Bhane. Just to be clear i am not asking for money in nobody's name. All i am saying is increase taxes from the usual 1% to 5% and give the excess to MU's. It would greatly increase the military power of eIreland. Awkors MU's should do something in return. Notice my two part article. Taxes and army reform. Excess taxes to MU's in change for a unified command chain. eIreland gives them money, they give obedience. Simple exchange.

And MU's financing would be in range of buying companies for MU's and weapons from Irish market, thus improving our economy. Endless cycle.

I layed out this basic idea in the article. I think it's pretty understandable what i meant. I may be a member of Labour's army, but before that i am eIrish and what i do as a newspaper writer and a soldier is very diferrent.

Fair play for trying to help out mate and welcome to Ireland.

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