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I concur. Secrecy makes me suspicious.

I don't like the idea eihter One eye

Thirdamaxx

You guys are right, anyone should be able to debate in congress. I mean, even if they didn't earn the spot, don't contribute anything to the topic, and have even been known to make us take steps back in the debate, they should still be able to post all they want.

That will create more Ill-informed Congressman/woman wannabe...

Thanks for the comment NS. Who exactly are you talking about? No need to beat around the bush - call them out.

One Eye definitely doesn't deserve to post there.

Is it going to hurt anyone having the public post there? No. I really cannot understand the reasoning behind this proposal.

Everyone should be allowed to debate: Period.

@john woodman

Are you calling me a woman?

I don't think blocking people from the topic is a good idea. As a new player myself I know how it feels regarding congress. Seems like its a meeting ground of all the veteran players. If the certain threads could be set to only be replyable by congressmen that would not be so bad. But don't silence the people.

@One eye, I actually had Emerick in mind, I don't know who you're thinking of.

This is totally out of line by someone who wants to input on every discussion that Congress has. It is also misleading. There is no insulation. The proposal was simply a suggestion (mine) as a way of letting the Congress discuss the issues at hand without outside input. There was even a provision for the inclusion of valuable commentary by such people as One Eye and others (oh, wait, he is the author of this article!)

There will be an open forum for discussion just as there has always been but Congress needs a chance to ascertain who is voting in which direction and why. It will be readable so their is NO SECRECY.

Please write the truth if you are going to write.

*cough*me*cough*

I would like to add, along with Moishe's post, that the proposal is geared towards getting the total asshats out of the congressional forums.

Well that sounds like a good idea. Like I said, just don't hide the information. If you want to keep the voices down, I would be all for increasing government efficiency.

Thanks, NoneSuch. The move is not to eliminate information. It is to set up a place where Congress can debate the issues without unwarranted input. That it is made publicly readable should be seen as an asset. It could have just been created without anyone knowing.

@NS - I had no idea who you meant. That's why I asked. BTW, Emerick is little rough around the edges. But he has so much flava, and his posts are short. Really you can't wish to shut out the whole nation because Emerick makes smart comments or Alby makes MLsism.

@Sorry Rhane if that offended you.I am not saying you're ill-informed as you're active in forum.I mean if I only write congressman, people will shout at me "Hey you're discriminating women! Who says woman cant be inside of congress!"

LOL @ Moishe

Erep😕=IRL

@Moishe. It's the truth alright. I'm sure you know how conversations work. If you're not in the conversation, you have no input. Yes, I know they want to have a separate, but not equal set aside area where the crackpots can post. Thanks, that's really open.

I'll still get to post? Thanks, I hope so. But that's not how proggy worded his proposal. "but ONLY Congressional reps will be able to post there" Hmm.. Only congress. Not the president, not the EC, not SADD.

You'll find the article 100% full of truth.

Well, Moishe already touched on this, but, whether you agree with the proposal or not, it is important to note that Proggy is NOT suggesting making the congressional boards hidden from the average citizen - he is just considering making a "read-only" section where only congressmen could post, but that would still be open to the public.

I certainly mean no offense to you One Eye, as everything you said in your article is indeed factually accurate. However, judging from some people's comments, they didn't quite understand the proposal correctly.

An unacceptable pattern develops and becomes more evident and obvious eUSA citizens. Pay attention. The philosophy of either be an office holder, run for office or, STFU, stinks. That would be at least strike two for you ProggyPop, with this citizen. You get a thumbs down today.......again.

By limiting the participation of the average citizen the Congress will only become more removed from the people they are supposed to be representing.

@Alee and Neil:

Way to completely ignore the comments prior to your posts.

I myself read the suggestion on the eUSA forums (by the by, if you're not going to visit the forums in the first place, what exactly are you being robbed of?) and it was obviously not a move to make the congressional discussions insulated from the general public's scrutiny. It was a suggestion to create a new board which would allow our nation's congressmen and women to discuss congressional issues and proposals without having to deal with input from non-members of congress. It was also pointed out that the current board which allows for access and input from the general public would not be closed or altered.

the goverment is created by the people for the people so i vote no we have to voice our opinions in debates

yes all people should be able to contribute ideas/debate for congress. We elected you to represent US. If you exclude the common folk like us from knowing what is going on it will be the downfall of us ALL.

I think this idea is ok, just read the whole proposal. At least we can watch and heck, why would you want to post in the Congressional section anyway. Lol quit making this a big deal, they just want to be able to work without having the public screw with them.

@Hari: "allow our nation's congressmen and women to discuss congressional issues and proposals without having to deal with input from non-members of congress."

My point exactly. Congress doesn't want to deal with the citizens... nice.

@Time. I respectfully disagree. Congress can't deal with the occasional crackpot, so they shut off debate from everybody else. It's just not a good proposal.

There's a difference between listening to the citizens and having people who are completely uninformed stall needed debate because they chose to ignore the previous pages of discussion on the topic.

My point Hari, is that the price of inaccessibility is much higher than the cost of ignoring a few trolls. You can agree or not, but that's the point.

FWIW, ProggyPop is not interested in just excluding a few trolls. He is proposing to exclude everybody (except congress, the pres. and the VP). If you doubt this read his latest comments in the thread.
http://eusforum.com/index.php/topic,681.msg16791.html#msg16791

I actually already understood that there would be an entirely seperate board that would not allow public posting.

I guess I would say that:

A) My major issue was that I felt your original article was misleading. I felt it painted a picture of a congress that was going to close all public access to congressional discussions.

😎 I'm would acknowledge that recieving input from outside perspectives (average citizens not involed in the government) can provide needed angles of insight. I would also say that these moments are probably, on average, balanced out by a number of posts that show a complete ignorance of the inner machinations of the eUS's government and economy.

I almost want to liken it to bringing in civialian auditors to provide commentary and suggestions for the military. While some ideas could help, you'd see just as many that would be useless due to a lack of understanding of the military's structure and function.

I don't frequent the boards enough, so I would ask: How much do the worthless comments act to slow down debate and, by extension, congressional action?

@Hari. I did read the article. I also did read the forum thread. Senator Publius post was that the input did not stop Congress from doing its job. The forums are creating a court system that can deal with contempt of Congress if there are disrupters posting to disrupt the business of Congress. There is no real slow down of Congressional debate and if you visit the forums, you'll see many of the Senators play in the random threads so they have time to burn. It seems some Senators don't even have armpit hair yet so, even those Congressional participants, need some help from time to time and urging to stay on track. The active population in the forums is not as massive in numbers as RL. A number are posting vote no comments so One Eye is not standing alone at all, with his observations on the subject matter.

there is, unlike Alee says, alot of holdup, some from congressman themselves too though.

I don't support getting citizens out of the congressional boards though as annoying as it may be sometimes with off topic comments.

For governments to work properly and to be able to come to voting terms they need to be intouch with what the public has to say. the public also need's to see how each congressman/woman is voting on any issues so we can see that they are taking all of our best interests to mind and not just blowing off what we say to benefit them selves first and thoes who pad his bank account then the public last voting put the person there and voting will remove them so they should listen to all that is said to them and make sure it gets put on the discussion table for all to hear. So if you wish to make eUSA a great country listen to its citizen's dont shut them out. One person or group does not make a country it is the persons and all of the groups as a whole that make a country great. So bring all of our opinions to disscus and make more informed votes that will benefit all of us not just some.

I agree with this article, it is ridiculous to limit the debate to only congress.

Newbie scared! Newbie scared! Newbie run for president and SMASH, newbie SMASH!

(Newbie don't know better because, newbie, never got to see discussion!)

Well, the more I think about it, the more negatives I can see with the idea.

Our Congressmen and women are competent enough to ignore questions that have already been answered and suggestions that are obviously ridiculous. I guess in the end I would rather they have to sift through a dozen worthless posts in order to deal with one important one.

Also: I've come to realize that the ability to post in that board is by far the easiest and most effective way of not only voicing the concern of the citizens affected by these decisions, but also in working to bring to Congress' attention to issues they might otherwise be unaffected by. Not to mention simply getting your representative to answer your questions (especially if they rarely answer PMs, or if you aren't capable of writing articles to bring your concerns to a more public forum).

I still don't think ProggyPop's intentions were to in any way allow congress to act without the public's scrutiny.

Cant say I am surprised.. it is typical workerparty thought to govern a country from the top down where congress decides everyything, instead of from the grassroot up where the people actually has influence on congress..

Or Poggy is just a efacist.. I dunno

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This makes me feel uncomfortable about what they might be doing. They are just trying to take more power for themselves and are on the path to completely disregarding the citizens who put them in this position.

I say that you create a subforum where congresspeople can post, but where citizens cannot post but still read. And next to that, another subforum for assorted asshats to debate with Congress and each other.

Thank you One Eye for this slanted and uninformed piece of information.

Now let's correct some of your statements:

FACT: This proposal will not shut off access to Congressional debates. Debates will be publicly viewable ad-infinum.

FACT: Congress would utilize expert opinions on a consistent basis by opening up testimony on the board to government experts AND by utilizing the public comment section on the Congressional section.

FACT: My entire term has been about improving transparency. The vote records are fuller and public now because of my work. To claim that I'm decreasing transparency is offensive. Your problem is that I'm limiting YOUR access because you're one of the 5 non-Congressional reps who post on the board.

The fact is that a well-run Congress does not let individual members argue on the floor with Congressional reps. That's the point of being elected. There's no point in having a Congress if you, Rhane, Alby, and Emerick get to debate with the rest of us like equals. This proposal will increase efficiency, fairness, and accuracy of information.

I like Robert's idea

Just because you won the elections, doesn't mean your opinion is better than everyone else's. Even if RL congress doesn't work this way, it should in eRepublik.

This is the Reason why I no longer participate in Congress, They take their job waayyy to seriously. ProggyPop was given the position of "Speaker of the House" A made up position so he can get a power rush. Its kind of funny that ITS A MADE UP POSITION, YOU HAVE NO REAL POWER.

Its like game imitating real life, except we can kick them out after a month lol

Why can't we make it not possible to post, but possible to view?

From Proggy:
"There's no point in having a Congress if you, Rhane, Alby, and Emerick get to debate with the rest of us like equals."

Thank you for summing up my arguemnt. ProggyPop feels that the poeple in congress are superior to the rest of us and wants to shut us out of the debate.

In light of this you can see exactly how spot-on the article is.

People complain that letting the people run wild causes too much confusion. Which is crap. If people can't figure out who is speaking then how can they figure out complicated policy like taxes?