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Govt only funds programs that directly helps themselves.

If it profitable why would it need government funding?

We've both been here long enough that as long as it was helping players profitable or not programs were funded as long as the right criteria were met. You've all just become greedy f**ks sucking off the teet of tax dollars for to long with no one to tell you no.

Whats profitable about HAP why does it need funding?.
Its nothing more than a cash grab. So this shouldnt be a conversation and lil guys just trying to play the game a diffrent way helping others should be funded.

No one claims HAP is profitable unlike this program claims .Why would government funding be required for a profitable enterprise?

HAP is a straight give away to encourage people to fight in Air and build their accounts. . HAP is open to all our citizens that wish to co-operate.

I rarely ever fight Air so HAP does not do much for me but it seems to be quite well liked and approved by congress and citizens alike.

Does even using a Q5 help anyone much or is the idea they sell them? Most people do not use q5 when fighting air that I can tell. Maybe using a Q5 gets them more HA😛 funds? No idea how that works.

Nice articles 😁
o7

Keep up the good work Nat, You're out here making us proud lad 😛

You are still running at a loss and sadly you have not figured it out yet. You are simply subsidizing lower WAM for everyone else with you own resources.

Yep. Simple math shows that Air communes are very unlikely to make money.

A worker makes, at most, 9 Q5s. That's with 100% bonuses and no pollution. Gauteng, South Africa has 115% regional bonus with 25% pollution for a net of 185% bonus (or 9.25 Q5s per worker). That's the highest I know of. Assuming you're there, 4 workers gets you 37 Q5s.

You pay 16 Q5s in salary, netting you 21 Q5s

A Q5's market value is ~1140cc, so you sell them at bit high (1150cc) and gross 24,150cc (21 x 1150cc)

Those 37 Q5s need 37 Air Raw Material, which you can't work as manager, you have to buy or use workers to produce. If you use workers, you need twice as those producing weapons (so 😎. But you need to pay them four Q5s each or 32 total and you're short 11 Q5s. Can't do that.

So you buy them off the market. Market value is 729cc and you need 37 ARM
729 x 37 =26,973

You are losing 2,823cc or 705cc per worker.

If you buy & sell strictly on the Canadian market (so 1350cc for a Q5 and 780cc for ARM) you're still losing money (about 500cc) assuming people will buy a Q5 for 1350, when they can hop over to India or the US and buy for 200cc less.

This only works if you subsidize, either by covering your losses with other funds (wages or house sales), or by having workers not get paid twice a week. You can buy cheap ARM and try to sell at grossly inflated prices, but that's probably why you have a huge backlog of works and frequent capital crunches. There's not many people who will pay 1350cc for an item they can get next door for 1140.

I admire your euthanism for this, but you're simply fooling yourself. Use a Google Sheet to record every transaction and you'll see the futility of this. If you want to spend your cash this way, have at it. But please stop saying its making money / breaking even because its not. Its just the math.

He actually started this as a charitable project.

He wanted it to help others.

Kinda why Code-Y taking advantage of a mistake for profit was seen as a huge no-no from us.

I can appreciate the charitable nature of this but then Natser shouldn’t post articles like this that state:

"It is profitable for everyone
..
So, Natster, how are your finances lately?
One word : excellent."

HIS finance may be OK, but the program only loses money. If that’s his point (subsidizing a program that gets Q5s in a few people’s hands) then have at it. Its your money & time and he can do what he pleases. The issue I have is him presenting this as a successful, profitable venture, which it cannot be. And then acknowledging that it loses money by asking the government to cover his deficit. Its either successful and “profitable for everyone”, or it needs government funds to run. Can’t be both.

If Natser wants to create a network of independent Q5 factory owners to run a larger program, I’m all for that as well. I even have a Q5 factory I can use. All owners should be aware that each commune worker is going to suck ~700cc out of their pocket per day.

I’m not suggesting he shut down the program, he’s free to use his money however he likes. I do suggest that he start tracking his costs very carefully to find out his net. Just saying “Here is where I am:
170 GP
503,096 cc”
Means nothing. That’s a snapshot in time, where did he start & how did he get there. I’ll point out when I ran a slave pit I used to post on the activity

https://www.erepublik.com/en/article/coi-production-summary-2021-2747337/1/20

“And the cash positions (rounded to the nearest $100)
01/01/2021 cc balance...........618,200
Gold repos (net).................53,300
Donations (others)............. 294,400
Donation of True Patriot cash...559,400
Work Tax........................(286,900)
Wages paid......................(634,500)
WRM purchase.....................(52,800)
Cash at 12/31/2021..............551,100

That’s what he needs to do, not just look at his CAD total.

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Is their a guide to make money in the game?

I originally thought it would be a money loser. That being said, there are several factors here:
If I was paying wages, I would have to pay ~870 cc's for each ARM. So using your logic, I'm losing less money than paying people to work for me.
I have being doing multiple snaps through time (read my articles). I wasn't sure if I could even run the program initially for any length of time (I have been writing articles and updates since July).
I have not asked the government to cover any deficit. I merely wanted to expedite the program to more people but, due to market fluxes etc, I realize that a significant cash float is required. That is why I went to them to try and buffer that. I can be more generous this way. Sometimes, I have to go almost 2 weeks before I see money from my sales and production. Hence why I can run a big deficit quickly but am growing the positions in what appears to be a sustainable amount.

If you have been following my articles, you would have noticed that my cash flow has been steadily improving etc. As an addendum, I would like to point out that some of my extra labor generated goes to other industries (based on market) to extract best value overall. I have q5 home factories, q5 weapons, HRM and ARM capabilities. I move around the work to maximize potential.

I also realize, there will probably be a breaking point for everything so I do wish to be prudent in this program and not give the farm away.

As an addendum, I pay daily, I have not missed a pay (as far as I know) and I have not been spending my real money on the game.

Correction on math
Pollution only effects the base, not the regional bonuses so Gauteng has 190% bonus, not 185%
Means a worker makes 9.5, not 9.25
Means 4 workers (in the example) make 38 rather than 37 and need 38 ARM
Net loss per worker using the same numbers = 610cc

Again, only looking at the equation one way. Look at my articles and see. I have been posting regularily. At first, I came in unsure and was willing to do it as a charitable cause and now I am growing it because I'm moving the work around economically.

"As an addendum, I would like to point out that some of my extra labor generated goes to other industries (based on market) to extract best value overall. I have q5 home factories, q5 weapons, HRM and ARM capabilities. I move around the work to maximize potential."

Right. You are subsidizing the air production with profits from housing (which is quite profitable) plus other items. Until you do careful record keeping, you'll think air makes money when its your other endeavors that do & air loses money. Math is math, it is a universal truth, there's no "other way" of looking at it.

I'm obviously not going to change your mind about this, so i'll just bow out of this thread.

The government is willing to subsidize Air fighters with tax dollars and rental income.

Perhaps the government could subsidize this commune style program as well on a larger scale?

Well the current deficit would probably free up some funds to help Natster expand.

The Hot Air program benefits everyone who signs up. Are you thinking this commune would benefit the same number of people? This seems limited to just a few workers.

The HAP program only benefits those who meet all the criteria. I have certain limits as well but that is because of the markets and liquid capital restraints. Right now, it's more the capital then the markets. I have to maintain enough of a float to allow my workers to work and get paid even though I don't for several days.

This is worth to discuss on a large scale. How about to write an article to explain how this can be a bennefit to eCanada’s citizens. It will be great to have the best price on the market, so people can buy from our market and get money from the tax, but like i said before, for this you must have Tycoon pack(arround 1M cc or 10euro), you must have a lot of companies too and a lot of money to pay the workers(or we can work for minimum salary and get paid by sending q5 or money).

Tycoon pack will bring him closer to break even point but you are back to square one : using your own real or virtual funds to subsidize it. You would new a gigantic investment to undercut the Marcel's and Lily's of the eWorld.

@napoleon54 Again, read my articles. I have been doing regular updates. PS I'm not spending my money on this game. So, at the very least, you can see that I am doing something right. That being said you are somewhat correct that not all my work is going in to building ARM, a lot of times, it is more profitable to buy it rather then produce it.

Thanks for the reply Natster. I have read all your articles in the past and they provide no real data. You should follow Wilhem advise and keep track of every single transaction. Then you will realize that your other income : TP money, works, WAMs, daily rewards, BH/SH, SS medal, etc, are still financing your deficit.

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@Kung : I have been posting articles on this matter regularily. But, It's too easy to get lost in numbers. But, real quick summation:
1) Working for Minimum wage reduces your WAM costs, Thereby improving the profitability on self generated items.
2) I do not have a tycoon pack. I have 2 q5 Airplane factories (each in a different area); I also need to save money for a 3rd q5 factory so that I can support even more workers.

I've "played" the game for years. I'm dabbling again, if you do it right break even is the best outcome. Long time ago there were tricks, admin has fixed that. Now throw in a Tycoon pack and some extra gold, things work smooth like butter.