A long lesson on how things are.
![Israel](http://www.erepublik.net/images/flags_png/S/Israel.png)
BuzzyTheCat
Hello Israel,
I am writing this article to clear some things up and to make a long winded explanation of the way things are. Erepublik is 180 degrees different than real life. Yes, some very abstract ideas from real life work in the Eworld, but most of the broad ideas simply do not apply here. Namely, low taxation, capitalism over socialism, and congressional oversight.
First, the tax issue. In real life, low taxes are the aim of everyone right of center. No one likes taxes in RL. They are however a way of life and a necessary evil. The same is true in Erepublik. Sure, everyone wants nonexistent taxes, and without thinking like a government, crazy low taxes are a great campaigning tool. The reality however is that you NEED taxes for many reasons. First, income tax regulates the value of the NIS. A high income tax not only provides income for the government, it also removes money from the market at a stable and steady rate, which keeps the value of the currency stable and steady. We have to look no further than the US for this example. About 3ish months ago, the USD was soaring over 60 USD per gold because of government spending. Now, government spending isn’t bad in itself… government spending however needs to be kept in line with taxes. So what did the US do? They instituted a 20% income tax. 3 months later and the USD is now stronger and more stable than it has been in nearly a year. I would also like to point you at other countries around the world and have you look at their taxes. Just for clarification, Israel has a flat 10% income tax. Now how do other countries compare?
Sweden – 15% income tax
Norway – 18% income tax
USA – 20% income tax
Switzerland – 50% income tax
France – 12% income tax
On the opposite side we have countries like Japan and South Korea who have 1 and 2% income taxes… and guess what? Their monetary value is horrible and their countries have generally failed to expand despite months of being in existence.
Israel is far from being “overtaxed” by any stretch of the word. Yes, Spain and Romania have 5% income tax rates… they are also between 6 and 20 times the size of Israel, and even with 5% income tax, they make more gold per day through taxes than Israel will make in a month or more. Bottom line, taxes really have nothing to do with business strength or worker strength, taxes have nothing to do with people moving to or from your country, but they do have everything to do with government funding and monetary strength.
Second, taxes create revenue for the government. Would it shock you to know that as a high skill worker in a place like Romania you could make nearly half of what Israel does as an entire country in a month? It is not only true, it is kind of sad. Israel as a country, with our low taxes, makes less gold in a month than a country like the US or Romania does in a single day. To put that into perspective, it would take roughly 3 months for Israel to earn enough gold through taxes to purchase a single Q5 hospital. In our current situation, it would take Israel 12 months, yes, a year, to earn enough gold through taxes alone to purchase 2 Q5 hospitals and 2 Q5 defense systems. This doesn’t even touch on the fact of the single most important expense a country has, its military. In order to provide the IDF with the funding it needs to operate perfectly, Israel would need far far higher taxes than we currently have. 700 weapons for a single day of fighting aren’t cheap. If you add in the cost of having funding for 2 days fighting, and a 2 day reserve you have easily just made it into the “how much gold did you just say!?!?!” range. You know the last time you bought a few Q1 weapons to fight? Remember how much that cost? Ok, now multiply that by 60, now multiply that by 4, and you are just getting a rough estimate of a single day of military expense.
Without writing a 20 page essay on this subject, I will say this in summery… “low taxes” in a country the size of Israel are simply irresponsible and dangerous. Yea, they look great on paper, they make amazing campaign promises, but in reality they will kill an Ecountry very very quickly. Maybe when we reach the 10,000 citizen mark and we are collecting more gold than we can ever hope to spend, we can revisit the whole tax issue. For now however, “low taxes” basically equal “useless military” “poor monetary value” and “bankrupt government”. Sorry, that is just the way it is in this game.
Next is the idea of a purely capitalistic society where government “protects the boarders and delivers the mail”… It doesn’t work. Well, to be fair, it works, but far from delivering “optimum results” Government run business can be found in every large and middle-sized country in this game. Some countries, like the original Pakistan, created entire empires built around government run businesses. Not only did it work, it worked so well it took some of the fun out of the game. It worked so well in South Korea that large countries like the US and Canada feared South Korea because their cheap products could destroy the US economy…while at the same time still making huge profits for South Korea.
Now lets go back to my earlier example of supplying the IDF with weapons. Lets say, we need to supply 10 soldiers with 12 weapons each. That is 120 Q1 weapons. On the “free market” 120 weapons would cost roughly 20.76 gold (.17 gold per weapon, current market value of a Q1 weapon on the Israeli market) Now, if you don’t know how a company or production works, ill give you a small lesson here. A weapon, uses 5 iron per Q level. (Q1 uses 5 iron, Q2 uses 10 iron, Q3 uses 15 Iron, etc) 5 iron, going by current world prices, Iron costs about .70 NIS per unit. So a Q1 weapon would cost a company owner 3.5 NIS in raw materials. Now, add in a worker. A 10 skill worker at 100 wellness in a properly run company of 10 employees, can produce 9 Q1 weapons in a single days work (45 production divided by 5) Lets now say that this 10 skill worker, working in a Q1 company makes 25 NIS a day (the current market value of a 7 skill worker in Israel working in a Q1 weapons company) That means the company is paying the worker 2.77 NIS a day to produce 1 weapon. That gives us a grand total of 6.27 NIS per weapon.
Now using that example as a base line for our IDF supplies, instead of 20.76 gold to supply 120 weapons, if we use a government run company 120 weapons costs 14.52 gold… we just saved 6.24 gold by operating a government run weapons company. Or, if we still have 20.76 gold to spend, it means we just produced 52 “free” weapons. (6.24 divided by .12) This is why just about every country in the world runs government companies… Without them, the likes of Romania, the US, or Indonesia, would never be able to support large-scale military action.
In summery, THAT is why Israel NEEDS government run companies. Without them, our already low treasury would be like “pissing into the wind”. Needless to say, without government run companies, Israel wouldn’t be buying anything anytime soon.
Now for the biggie, the one thing everyone loves to toss around. Congressional oversight (IE “government transparency”) It’s dangerous. Plain and simple. In the world of Erepublik, where a congress member will write a newspaper article spilling government secrets, where a congress member can win a seat with 2 votes, and where a congress member will only serve for a total of 30 days in a term, congressional oversight is a really really good way for your country to get spied on. In this game, a country doesn’t need a network of spies, informants in 20 different countries, or any other sophisticated espionage system… they need only read newspapers and use Google Translate. Having an “expense report” of what government is spending its money on, and how much money they are spending would read pretty much read like a “how to attack and destroy this country” guide.
I will also go out on a limb here and say this… why does the public need to know how much the government is spending, and on what? The simple answer is, they don’t. Please, show me a large or middle size country in the entirety of Erepublik who publishes their “expenses”. The US doesn’t, neither does Romania, Spain, or Indonesia. Doing so is a detailed description of “how to attack me, and once you do, you know know how long I can last in battle”
Going even further, you are suppose to elect people you trust. Not your friend, not the new popular guy who joined 2 weeks ago, but wrote 20 newspaper articles, not the guy who promised you what you wanted to hear… you elect the person who has experience at the job, and who has a track record of being trustworthy and reliable. This is another reason you really don’t need an expense report. You should be able to trust your elected government to do what is right. If you can’t trust them, well, then you really shouldn’t have elected them.
TL😃
R version… Government run companies are necessary, Israel is far from being “overtaxed” and congressional oversight/government transparency is not only foolish, it is not needed if you elect proper leaders.
Thank you all for your time,
Buzzythecat
Comments
WHOA!! PERTAMAXX!!
Cant agree more!!! finally someone who actually understand what he is talking about.
Totally worth the time reading it!
Voted.
"The party line is, dont worry, be happy, Sadeh knows best, everyone else is crazy." I KNOW RIGHT ?!?!?! Sadeh fucking pwns everybody , their all just a bunch of power hungry fools who wouldnt know power if it hit em smack in the face . Damn hippies going against Sadeh ...
Being a member of the IWP I appreciate this article it has some great insight. I have to beg to differ that government ran companies are not a good thing because it eliminates individually owned companies and it eliminates a free flowing market. I must say that there does need to be congressional oversight without giving away secrets. There is a fine balance to be found by a good working government. Overall a good article and worth reading.
I do not think much taxes are necessary. It just depends on how much the government wants to be spending on projects; a good country does not need to have lots of government spending. And correlation does not mean causation.
Likewise, government-run companies *can* work out well, but we've seen capitalistic economies run just fine. You can have a great economy at either end of the scale.
And yeah, government transparency doesn't seem to do much good for anyone. There's always a few who complain for more information on exactly how things get spent, and I know there are corrupt politicians out there who will take advantage if they can, but security is the larger issue.
here here!
Great riposte Jeff, I agree with your sentiments whole-heartedly. The supposed inflation control that high taxes can be controlled by the issuing of NIS on the monetary market by our national bank. If we are to grow our economy and attract new citizens to make eIsrael strong, then we need a strong and stable manufacturing/construction sector. The easiest way to attract businesses is a favorable tax environment.
The part about transparency in government is just sheer idiocy, fear mongering by an authoritative regime that only seeks to keep its stranglehold on the government.
furrymaxx
Subscribed and voted........
This hands down is one of if not the best articles I've read in my short elife. Excellent job Buzzy 🙂
A 10% income tax is reasonable, anything higher I believe would warrant some form of an explanation (ei. temp increase for hospital/defense funding).
Transparacy no, accountability yes.
Government owned companies are a necessary evil, in this case not so much as our government owned compnaies for the most part aren't competing with our private sector, rather they are in place for "emergency" situations (ie. food and weapons during times of war).
Those are my opinions, you don't have to agree with me, no public tongue lashing necessary from people with opposing views.......
Like I said, excellent article 😃
Took some time but was worth it.
Very good article.
not the taxes keep the value of the local coin, but the power of the national bank. at the US, for example, the Congressional Budget Office stuck the USD -> Gold exchange on 0.02, and he used to stuck the Gold -> USD exchange on 51 (i guess that now they just dont need it anymore).
so there is no connection between taxes and the strength of the currency. the country can have strong Bank with a normal tax of 7%
@ jeff. I understand some peoples frustration with IWP, however saying I "tote the party line" isn't exactly fair. I have been saying pretty much the same things since I was in the US 5+ months ago. My tax views are also echoed by other long standing Eplayers such as Benn Dover (his article on taxes can still be found buried deep in his newspaper if you would also like to read that)
Also, it really depends on how you want to play the game as far as taxes and government run companies go. Extreme socialism works exceptionally well in Erepublik. Again, look no further than old Pakistan which basically "invented" the idea. There was also South Korea, which in its less than 2 months in game caused nations with 15,000 citizens to fear it.
But I will ask this question...
If government is to not run businesses, and we are to have very low tax rates...how do we stockpile 3000 weapons, 5000 gifts and have funds for moving tickets? At the same time, we also need 2 more hospitals and 2 more defense systems... where will the gold come for that? And also, every 30 days we need to renew between 2 and 4 MPPs with other countries...how do we gain the gold for those as well?
Basically...how are we to run a country, fund a military and defensive plan, and purchase security with low taxes and no government companies? If you have an idea or plan I would whole heartedly love to hear it. I mean that genuinely
about Switzerland with it's fucking 50% income tax:
check the salaries there and the companies.
the salaries are much higher then any normal country and all the companies are belong to the government.
the companies don't earn as much as they spend on the salaries, and that is why the government donate money to it all the time.
no private person can open a company in that country.
this is what you call Communism >.>
and it's a crapy way to play.
@jeff,
I used SK as an example of how socialism works in Erepublik. No doubt the main funding for the "project" came from people like Father and Teacher. However their model of government run companies supplied by government owned raw material companies, and financed by government treasury basically meant that no country in the Eworld could compete with their prices, while at the same time, they still made a profit from each and every sale in foreign countries.
For example weapons (because SK didn't have Iron) if they had to pay a worker .30 TRY to produce a unit of Iron, it was then donated back to a SK weapons company. They then would pay 20 KRW to have that weapon produced. Now with I believe it was a 90% income tax, that means in all reality a Q1 weapon cost the SK government 2.5 KRW to produce... Export it to a country like, the US for 5 USD, undercut every single weapons company in the country by more than half, and still more than double your profits... which are then put back into building more companies, upgrading companies, etc
That is why SK was "killed" by the US, Canada, and others... people knew that "socialism" worked so dam well that if applied on a large scale, it could destroy every capitalistic country in the game.
But we are getting off track here. I simply said that a government company is not a bad thing at all. Especially in the case of Israel because the only time our government owned weapons company puts products on the market, is during war time. Those weapons are also placed at a price higher than every other weapons company on the market which means no one in their right mind will pay 12 NIS for a Q1 weapon when there are 200 Q1 weapons on the market selling for 8 NIS. The weapons aren't meant to be sold to the public, they are meant for the IDF and are bought by IDF suppliers. There is no government competition in the market the way Israel does it.
I would also like to add that I am in agreement that donations to the treasury are important. Our hospital in Israel right now was funded through donations and currently we are more than half way to another Defense System simply from the donations given by the congress when it was elected.
However we cant ever depend on donations alone. Back when I was getting donations for the original hospital and defense system I hit a "wall"... when I first started gold and currency was flowing in from a select few people. Once I had tapped out willing donators, the donations almost completely stopped... We will reach a point where people who are willing to donate have given everything they can, and at the same time, you will find that some players are more likely to ignore you and give empty promises than to crack open their wallet for a 1 gold donation
Jesus, I to tired to read all that.
Jeff why do u think that abroad company can afford to pay more 15% less then you?
If someone in the eWorld is doing just hue net profit, its amazing and unique.
If someone does sell in large difference then here, maybe we need to check ourselves about our prices?
At the day abroad company will threat our economy, tell me about it, and we will right a way change the taxes, but I am positive it just wont happen.
Even if someone could sell cheaper then here, he will try to make the best profit from his business, since he is no charity ORG.
We are more then protected IMO.
it was very intresting to read, thanks. i think i sterted to understand the game a bit more. 😁