[eV] When Community fails to the Community itself
Day 3,568, 16:02
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Published in USA 
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by
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by Demonaire
There are moments where the most useful thing to do, after you do lots and lots and lots of criticizing to everybody and anybody (specially administrators and developers) and suggests lots and lots and lots of ideas to improve something (and you even see them implemented), is to dedicate yourself to self-criticizing for the things you did wrong, the things you couldn't do, and the things you didn't want to do (despite it was benefical for everyone).
Yui MHCP001 made two articles controlling Alexis Bonte's promise to radically improve eRepublik towards the 10th anniversary. (You can see both articles here and here) Very good articles indeed (Message to Plato: you're taking too much time to endorse Yui's article, and you have only one day left), but the next things call my attention:
* Both articles acknowledges progress made to the game from the devs, then concludes those advances aren't enough for eRepublik to be interesting.
* They use the already known patterns of all rants: Blaming Plato-Bonte for everything and anything and, then, making a veiled threat about them growing tired about the situation and considering leave the game.
They are also sharing another thing in common: there is absolutely NO criticism towards Community at all for anything. Normal thing for me, of course, since once and again, it's easier to complain about others instead of ourselves, as if Community always had been right in their suggestions to the devs.
But the fun fact is: Community hadn't.
About the image above, some person told me (but I don't remember the place where we talk about it) that the isolation of the developers from the community happened because Rising's fail. Since that failure, the trust bond between developers and citizens was irreparably broken. Normal reaction, by the way: if Community had an idea, and developers works it but it results such a terrible failure they needed to dismantle that idea some months later to avoid big economical loss, and then Community blames you for the implementation, it's a no wonder for me why does devs decided that doesn't listen to players was for the sake of the game.
Please, do not pretend surprise.
But now the question is: What lesson does Community get from that failure?
Apparently, the answer is: nothing.
Using the same methodology from Yui's articles, let's make a review of some important social updates made from the devs in V3 and how has community reacted to them (and not with words: with actions)
July 26th, 2013: Combat Orders.
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? "Making official" something already in use for mercenaries and giving soldiers a sort of work for a living (especially considering the"overproductive" flawed economy of that time)
What did I expect from this update? I believe the devs also were thinking in a way for closing the gap between old and new players by giving the later ones a way to "manipulating" tanks with money in the battlefield. After all, if I'm a 40k Strength D3 player, but I have, for example, 10 million CC in my account, I don't need to fight to turn some battle wall around if I can pay some tanks to do it. Hence, If people dedicates themselves to make money not only with CO, but with companies, endorsements, diplomacy and what else to save money for their own CO, we could have expected some interesting campaigns where many people fight not with their strength but thanks to good economical planning. (and I know he isn't the best example at all, but Colin Lantrip 3, although VISA player, has shown us how he can unbalance things in the game despite to be "on the losing side")
How did Community react? This update certainly went against collective cooperation of soldiers in the battlefield (making IRC fight meetings useless) and even the military supply system. But I still think people could do something more to military cooperation and CO coexist between them. After all, CO isn't active all the time and some countries could organize soldiers to coordinates in some battles, even the uninteresting ones. In short: Community just gave up with the update, not even showing proactive thinking to exploit it for their own sake.
That would be the first time Community gave up onto something...
August 8th, 2013: Work Tax.
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? Stop overproduction. Indeed, it was the really first step developers took to "Fix the Economy".
What did I expect from this update? For me, it was (and still is) revolutionary. We're talking about a tax that not only would serves for economical purposes, but for political ones, because it was the possibility to force great owners to share their wealth with the rest of people. It's a tax that created the space not only for inclusive wealth but to put into practice ideologies like communism, socialism, socialdemocracy, etc. Even, well used, the Work Tax could create a new international stage, with countries fighting for ideologies, not only for domination and conquest. And I'm sure the devs also bet to that situation to happen, considering this correction where they were accepting the possibility that Work Tax + Minimum Wage was used by nations to totally expropiates companies' incomes.
How did Community react? Well...
And those are the highest values.
The consensus is to put the Work Tax between 1% and 5% and Minimum Wage at the minimum, but the thing disappoints me the most is to see "communist", "socialist" and, overall, far leftists and leftists political parties around the world radically against to raise Work Tax, like behaving as zombies for right-wing parties.
Bonte put his bets on the Community for they to change. And Community didn't live up to his expectations.
Needless to say, that wouldn't be the last time.
November 13rd, 2013: Freedom Fighter
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? To answer community complains about TWO domination in the eWorld.
What did I expect from this update? People from the community organizing themselves and forming Revolutionary Armies around the world, regardless the nationality, to fight against TWO and be rewarded with that medal and the RH medal (even recruiting some VISA players to those efforts). Besides, since Revolutionary Armies wouldn't have some affilation to alliances, they would be an interesting third party in the wars.
How did Community react? Community didn't do anything and, on January 12th, 2015, Plato changed the medal prize from 5 golds to 1.000 currencies. 'Nuff said.
Again, Bonte put his bets on the Community for they to change. And Community felt short to his expectations.
November 15th, 2013: Taxation of Occupied Regions.
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? To remember Community they could make peace treaties, paying a sum of gold to gurantee that peace, or countries paying tributation to empires for safety in their territories.
What did I expect from this update? Same as devs.
How did Community react? Countries turned tributes and peace agreements/NAPs with sum in golds/money in taboo.
[Irony]Bravo![/Irony]
November 19th, 2013: Determination
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? To boost revolution wars, as they did with the freedom fighter aforementioned.
What did I expect from this update? Same as mentionated in Freedom Fighter.
How did Community react? They created a determination carousel. Some Community fault, though: That carousel proved determination in RW, as it stands now, totally useless.
September 18th, 2014: Publish Articles Globally.
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? To boost the journalistic module and reinforce ties with the Community and the Community as a whole.
What did I expect from this update? Same as devs.
How did Community react? There wasn't any improvement in articles' quantity or quality whatsoever. Not Community fault, however: 2 golds are too much expensive to spend, more when Ads in other articles or feeds were a more economical option.
November 18th, 2014: Article Endorsement.
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? To further boost the journalistic module and correcting the flaws of the previous update.
What did I expect from this update? Same as devs.
How did Community react? It was a good received measure and some people began to publish more articles in another countries, expecting to regain the investment with the endorses. That measure was improved further when the endorsement was upgraded to 100/50/5 coins.
Febraury 24th, 2015: Dictatorship.
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? To expand the game political module, considering the plusses would surpass the minuses (like TO or access denied to President and Congress medals)
What did I expect from this update? Since the moment I read the terms, I knew it had a totally flawed implementation. Anyway, I had the hope dictators could make revolutionary changes in politics and economy in their countries, forcing ideological civil and international wars (you know, raising Work Tax and other taxes, raising Minimum Wage, making Peace Agreements, NAPs and other treaties with money and without impeachment fear, etc.)
How did Community react? Making use of an extraordinary but known fear to the changes, Community decided to mount defensive dictatorships around the world with the sole purpose to keeping the current statu-quo. Hence, we had the worst from the two worlds: dictators never made any important change, neither in internal nor in foreign affairs (despite having absolute power) and it closed political participation for many players, damaging political module (and game reputation) beyond repair. Devs themselves acknowledged the fatal error they committed and nerfed the system.
Thrice, Bonte put his bets on the Community for they to change. And Community felt short to his expectations, even after such radical update.
June 25th, 2016: Upcoming Economy Changes (Holdings and Pollution)
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? It was another big step towards "Fix the Economy!"
What did I expect from this update? It was another update reinforcing Work Tax power, it was another invitation from the devs to the governments to really set WT in motion. Besides, as a personal note and as Yui would say about Discor
😛"My baby. My precious little baby.".
How did Community react? As mentioned when I wrote about Work Tax implementation: despite the tax being empowered, the consensus from all political movement in the game, regardless if they´re left, center or right wing, is to have WT as low as possible. Besides, come on: when Community didn't gave a **** about dictatorship system, it's reasonable for me to have expectations not too high.
Febraury 2nd, 2017: New Media Module.
What do I think Devs were expecting from this update? Mainly, to deliver a fatal blow to Voters Club and reinforce Community ties.
What did I expect from this update? Nothing, I was a dead citizen by then. Now I think it is a great update.
How did Community react? Nagging, nagging everywhere.
Of course, we have more recent updates since Febraury, but those are still too new to be qualified.
All of you can see it. If Plato really admitted eRepublik is dead, as Gniraps once told us, Community was the murderer, or, at least, an accomplice for that murder.
But for Yui, Master_rg and Gnilraps, Community is a victim of the things Bonte and company made to her.
Community, for them, is just a good girl troubled by that "ugly bastard" called Plato.
Now, they ask for inmediate changes, under threat of leaving the game, and blaming Bonte if such departure happens.
And I'd really miss them.
But that departure won't be by Bonte's fault solely. And the funny thing is all of them will never have any ill feeling toward Community, despite, as we'd seen in this article, Community is, at least, as responsible as Bonte for their possible leaving.
Yui said she's growing tired and losing hope by the current state of things, Also Master_rg. Truth is: me too, but for blaming Plato for things he did and he didn't.
And no. I won't blame Bonte for having a Community that is behaving herself like an emo kid, that didn't use any of the updates given for make a better game, that hasn't proactivity or initiative for play in other ways, that is very terrified to dare changing the current state of affairs, and that has a depressing nostalgia by V1 and want that to come back, even it that means to kill herself (as shown, for example, with the Maverick Pack).
This is like the Blue Whale Challenge, eRepublik version: Bonte and Community competing to see who hurts themselves the most. A disgusting vicious circle.
And when two elephants fight between them, the meadow (the citizen) is the only one who suffer from that.
The worst thing: Community (in the same way as Bonte) doesn't and won't listen their own players, because Community thinks about herself that she is always right, after all, her leaders thinks the same way.
Nobody within community (even me) wants to take risks to improve the game.
All the people are lacking courage, so much.
Yes, we are.
-Demonaire
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[eV] When Community fails to the Community itself
erepublik.com/es/article/2649313
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"Yui said she's growing tired ..."
Is (s)he?
😃
No hay version en español?
No, y no creo que haya.
Como artículo global dirigido a todos los jugadores y a los desarrolladores, no tiene sentido hacer una traducción para un público más específico.
"... but the thing disappoints me the most is to see "communist", "socialist" and, overall, far leftists and leftists political parties around the world radically against to raise Work Tax, like behaving as zombies for right-wing parties."
Because "communist", "socialist" and, overall, far leftists are not in power (few exceptions), don't control the budget of the countries. We don't want even more tax.monies to be stolen by the filthy power-hungry double-faced pig-disgusting elitist oligarchies.
Does this make sense to you?
P.S. Good article, you've put a lot of work into it.
o/
Thanks.
But the point of the article isn't really how convenient is to raise taxes or not, but about Community strongly penalizes opinions or actions apart from Statu-Quo. I defend high taxes, but strangely I don't find a party who defend such thing.
And that, I have to say, shows how little the game matters to the Community.
Gretings.
In the world, One is exlusive at other. Two parts of human.
High or low taxes - it changes nothing in the game. The amount of cc is finite. Only VISA players can have impact onto the economy!
[removed]
I totally disagree.
But, even if that were correct, then VISA players weren't clever enough, just using their power only for bore people.
[removed]
Where is the money coming from, if not from VISA players?
Would you rather have in-game advertisements?
Seriously, yes. That would be a less evil for me.
Now, are you talking about US$ or CC?
Both.
Well, about US$, I'm thankful to VISA players because their support to eR (Not certainly by in-game ads, a thing I can tolerate; nor by their gameplay mode, a reason behind this article)
About CC, I disagree again: Although VISA players can obtain money faster, NON-VISA also have their own means to generate much currency (3.5 golds by TG, Double-Salaries, Many companies, endorsements, CO, etc.)
People says "Fix The Economy!" but, comparing when I was a newbie, the economy is pretty much fixed (Now I understand people was meant to say "We want fun economy!" but I think the economy wasn't meant to be all-fun and people gaming the V1 monetary market was a minority)
why do you want to punish the people making money in the game demonaire? certainly, i never complain about the ridiculous amount of bh other players make. or the popularity of some politicians so why not afford good tycoons some sunlight? do you really think you know the economy game better than a person makings an income of 50 gold a day? even if your an economix doctorate does not mean you should super impose your poorly motivated ideas on me. you dont say why restricting prodcution will improve the economy. it means people will pay higher or not make money it may mean small operators making money. but if it is economically feasible players will just amp up their production to make every last cent available. our solution will always be increased production. you raise wt our net profit is down which means we should produce more to have the same income,
"do you really think you know the economy game better than a person makings an income of 50 gold a day?"
How many economix doctors you know who're also billonaires?
Because I know many billonaires who haven't even a degree in economics.
'Nuff said.
im not claiming to have any degree or training in economics. but the point is why are you trying to create an environment that will kill off my business. to what end will that help the game to kill off good business players.
Best article I've read since the last article you wrote.
Are you working for Plato?
I know I would give that impression. 😛
Un valioso punto de vista.
Como en un divorcio, que nunca es exclusiva culpa de ninguno de los dos
V!! tremendo articulo!
Sad, but also sadly true.
I feel like many people want to play the game as it was in 2010, not 2017.
Be careful what you wish for.
😘
I nornally am
Interest and instability is what the game needs INO.
Reading this makes me pretty sad, just because of how true it really is.
So we have to be the change we want to see. If we couldn't change then, it may be our last chance to try to change now.
While it may take a while, we can definitely make a change.
I hope the same, but is it true?
WoWW!!
Very interesting. I think one of the problems now is the big impact of the players that use a lot of real life money to have big influence on the game and not enough impact of the other players. The big impact of the whales also has an enormous impact on the devs. I think that killed part of the community (and thus my commitment).
Only my addiction to be with my friends (new or old) let me stay playing.
o7
Great article, anyways, one thing:
"For them, Community is flawless, perfect." -> 0/10 statement.
https://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-series-visiting-erepublik-labs-part-05--2624830/1/20
So, you think the whole problem with community can be reduced to communication and behavior of the player, Amiright?
Sure, if this is to prove me wrong when I'm saying about you thinking "Community is perfect", it works perfectly. But it also proves we usually tends to underestimate community power within the game.
And if many people are suffering from boredom (like you), it's not only because Bonte took wrong decisions, but Community too, and not because some players saying: “Again a shitty update”, “You %$”!$% it up again”, “Plato doesn’t care”, “Stop playing this shit!”, nor by purchasing Infantry Kit or Maverick Pack, but because Community power to do things was wrongly used, a situation even Devs couldn't change at all, despite updates.
Nope, it's just an example to invalidate your statement which is completely wrong. Also the community problem can't be reduced to communication and behavior, it's way more complex.
Furthermore you didn't get the point again: I never said I am suffering from boredom, I am suffering from disappointments by eRepublik - and hopefully I am allowed to do so as I am
- the biggest third party tool provider
- offering a public API for developers
- invested money into the game
- invested (and still investing) money, time, power into my free services
As I don't want to repeat myself over and over again, please take a look at Yuis article and my comment about the former plans of the "Plato Foundation" and try to make a connection to "Power of the Community within the game". Regarding my disappointments you may also take a look at Yuis article and read the part where I am talking about half-baked solutions - and try to put this into a bigger perspective.
If you can't properly classify my statements mentioned in the article you may should not quote me or do statements about my point of view if you don't have an idea of.
Edited, then.
Done about your asking too, and I believe you're expecting too much.
Greetings.
Thank you very much
o7
The article makes some good points, however it fails to see the big picture.
The truth is the game won't become more attractive unless everyone works towards that matter. But the community is tired of it. I am tired of it. Basically, the powers almighty aka devs/admins/mods/whatnot have shown absolutely no reason to the community so it can work with them.
Let me clarify - and check the promised changes in the last couple years.
The admins promised economy fixing (I dont know which year or even millennium they did but it's been a while). Endresult - the economy is still broken af. The admins promised q6/7 houses, training for perception, local taxes, and I fail to remember all the failed promises. See a pattern emerging there?
Let's talk about game rules as well, please. When the admins turn a blind eye to notorious cheaters only because they are paying customers, that is not the way to go ( I am looking at you RoM/FYROM president). That erodes any trust the community had in the powers almighty.
You are right, the community could have done a lot of things, and it chose not to. But it is a two-way street and does not work one way. If the devs start showing intent to actually discuss the changes with the community before implementing them and start fulfilling their promises - then we might do something. In the meantime, most of us dinosaurs left here are staying not because of the game but in spite of the game I would say. Erepublik has long turned into a kind of a social forum to meet with friends. The current broken status quo (which has been like that for over a year now) does not help either. There is no more game/competitiveness, there is only cards/euros.
Kristine showed it all too well a couple days ago, helped to a great extent by the Greek tanks.
Forgive me if I don't want to help such a game develop further.
Some things are better left to die.
The "big picture", in this case, would be both Yui articles and this article.
I don't ignore Bonte responsibility about this decline, but that is overdiagnosed since long time ago (and Yui's articles remind us that they still aren't fulfilling the goals they proposed), but, instead, Community responsability is almost under-analyzed and now we can be observing the phenomenon of Devs and Citizens not concurring at the same place and time.
Bonte can't say players how to play his game, and this article shows that, even with very suggerent updates (like Dictatorship, where Devs were almost saying citizens "Hey! you can build your own idealized country! Change your gameplay ways!), Community response to updates are apathic and indifferent, unwilling to change the mode to do things.
Hence, as I said, "This is like the Blue Whale Challenge, eRepublik version: Bonte and Community competing to see who hurts themselves the most. A disgusting vicious circle."
Yes, however you fail to understand this...The community lost trust in the devs a long time ago. Period. So anything the devs do WILL be met with mistrust. And since the devs have shown repeatedly that they don't care about anything else than profits, you get my point....
It is not the community job to help. Not now, because when the community tried to help and had some reasonable suggestions - we were screwed. Remember the big presidential bans from several years ago? For me that sealed it...
It is a P2W game with somewhat limited social aspect. And of course the majority of players who do NOT pay will fear disgruntled.
Because the reality is you cannot compete without paying huge amounts.
No thanks.....V1 had at least some options. This, this has ....nothing.
...So, as Community saw no hope in helping Devs, they also began to behave in such form that the game wasn't fun anymore.
Precisely the point of my article and the completion of an Egg-Hen Dilemma, with some Self-Fulfilling Prophecy.
I think you fail to understand Community power (including VISA players) to bring fun to another citizens with the tools they have. And because that, regardless valid explanations for such actions, we're struck in a moment where neither Bonte nor citizens do nothing to better things.
I dont fail to understand the community power, I am just realistic about the community desire....
There is no chance in hell that anyone would lift a finger nowadays precisely because of what was done in the past. And since caution is now prevalent all around, there will be no betterment by the community. Since lets face it, community alone won't change the game. And as I pointed to you - the community is not obligated to do anything. It is part f the job descriptions of the devs/mods. Why would someone else do their job if they are inept at it?
That is the reason for the mass exodus in the last couple of years - the game just stopped being fun. All the empty promises brought people to the edge.
"It is part f the job descriptions of the devs/mods. Why would someone else do their job if they are inept at it?"
You're right. Devs job is to create and implement funny and useful features in the game, but, certainly without calling a job, Community role is to use those features, hopefully with the goal of offering fun to everybody.
And you're also right: If we make some evaluation about Devs job, the qualification would be 3/10: the updates had been generally harmful, with very few good ones, and by not mention the grave accusations of protecting cheaters.
But that's the problem: those very few good updates (some of them, mentioned here) were either wasted or misued by Community (despite to be their role). And to teach Community how to use features in a fun mode ISN'T Devs' job. but Community to themselves.
Community suggestions to Devs about how must they do their job, correctly deserve the " Why would someone else do their job if they are inept at it?" answer, but that's DOESN'T validate the waste and/or misuse of good updates.
"Hence, we had the worst from two worlds: dictators never made any important change, neither in internal nor in foreign affairs (despite having absolute power) and it closed political participation for many players, damaging political module (and game reputation) beyond repair" - Exactly, thank you for killing that one. For some of us, that was the entire game.
Game over.
This article was on of those "let's try to make milk out of the first thing we see on the horizon"
The only 2 valid points were the rising experiment and the faulty usage of the taxes (not creating that diversity that was needed...which used to exist back when CCs stood for something...which, the same people you decided to take the blame away from, went to great lengths to make it forgotten)
for the rest, the community's main fault was putting up with this bullshit and paying for it
Most of the alterations they came up with were made in erepublik's own interest (not saying that that is wrong - the purpose of it is to make money) and then they sold them as cocaine to drug addicts. That is not sustainable by any means. It also draws the wrong kind of crowd, the crowd that will mess up things even further and make it easier to have the blame shifted on it. Most of the great minds of erepublik are already off the boat for quite a while and the quality of what came from the fresher ranks is...arguable. But that was shifted by how the game is run. I am genuinely surprised what kind of creatures fester the realms of this game (and I don't want to be a hypocrite, I go off the rails sometimes as well) and how hard it is to accept that these people are well in their ...midlife.
so of course the community will go mental about it if they ask for cake and they receive a pile of shit sprinkled with sugar and with a candle on top - I mean, yes...you can call it a cake, but your stomach tells you something else. And even further than that, it is obvious why the regular customers would get miffed when the implementation of whatever is decided in the HQ is arbitrary.
But enough with the game of blame. The bottom line is that if you sell cocaine, you will attract drug abusers and nothing else.
Only to say this isn't a blamewashing at all. I'm very aware about Devs' wrongdoings, but two opposed mistakes doesn't make a right.
And then, we come back to Devs not listening players (totally true), even when the few times Devs does listen, players reactions only generates negative feedbacks (also true) that impairs further interactions and reinforce arbitrary decision making. In that case, VISAS are only scapegoats.
https://www.erepublik.com/en/article/join-the-party1-2649211/1/20 join the party
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I have been saying that Plato/Admin stopped listening to the community when they implemented eRepublik Rising and the community raised bloody hell. Because those who spent real cash on the old game made the wrong choices during the implementation of Rising sadly Plato -instead of saying GFY- gave in and rolled Rising back and so the best chance to level the playing field between old and new players was removed.
We the community have no one to blame but ourselves, especially those who pay to play and then cheat by using multi accounts.
So, you discovered the game is broken since the V2. It's not a new however.
Intersting
Votado71
Sub308
Quite an interesting point of view