[SecDef] Same Team?
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by Avruch
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It seems to be a perennial problem; as soon as the tide in the war turns in our favor, some internal dispute crops up that threatens the whole effort. Americans aren't known for our political discipline, or for working together smoothly in a group. We're individualists, innovators, creative thinkers, entrepreneurs and so on. So coordinated activity takes serious, consistent effort for us. It takes commitment from all involved towards a common goal.
On this subject, there were a series of shouts and comments this weekend (I saw them via Haliman's shout) where some folks debated whether the various military groups in the United States were or were not on the "same team." My strong opinion, argued in several comments, is that we are - we have the same opponents, we fight in the same places on the same side, we have the same president, we vote in the same elections, we pay our taxes to the same place. I'd also argue that we try not to leave anyone out of our team - the National Security Council includes the leaders of all the militias, the JCS-mil, the new military, and various strategic and operational advisors. The DoD orders are translated into Turkish for the benefit of iNCi citizens and the OWLS militia. The DoD orders also contain links to newspapers or applications for virtually all the groups out there, with no discrimination.
So I'm saddened to confess to all of you that we've suffered a setback in our team tonight; a division that threatens to pull apart what we've worked to mend together. Here is a conversation between the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Bradley Reala, and I this evening. I'll admit that I got testy at the end. Despite the way the conversation ended, I still hold out hope that the traditional military (now described often as a "paramilitary" group), the United States Armed Forces, the militias and the executive can work together efficiently to defeat our enemies.
But we need your help: read the conversation I linked above and tell me in comments what you think. If you're a part of the old military, tell me how you think this could be resolved or how I could have done better. Despite the opinions of most others in Emerick's administration, and virtually every member of Congress, we've done everything we could do to continue working closely with the JCS. We haven't reclaimed the 14,000g in companies that they took with them when they left official recognition behind (many of which have now been sold), though we could have. We didn't reclaim their organizations, though we could have. We didn't exclude them from planning or coordination, though we could have. Recognizing that it harmed us all to cut them off out of spite, Emerick and I have tried to mediate and walk a middle road -- but it's not clear that is still possible.
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You do everything you can. I don't see how you could have handled it better.
I'm not going to lie. I think you could have been a little less trolly with that, but you were kind of right. Bradley wanted his order followed. He put Channing in place to be second-in-command. From what I can tell, you already tried PMing him, so I don't blame you for going to other JCS members. We need order but also representation and communication.
Is anyone surprised? I'm not.
Brad commented that he objected to me posting logs of a one-on-one conversation. Fair objection; I've never posted similar logs in the past. But sometimes other considerations are just more important, and people need to know what's going on with their leadership.
Again, Brad had some fair points. If he didn't want one-on-one stuff shared, this is kinda bad. But, people do need to know about the reasons behind this split. Something this big affects a lot of people, as you can see.
Typical.
Interacting with Brad in a professional capacity has been very difficult post-split.
All I see in that log is Brad upset that someone went over his head to make sure America was getting all the damage it could.
I hope we can repair relationships with the branches, but I don't see it happening while Brad is in charge, or while he clings to power and an archaic JCS structure.
We owe nothing to the eUS mil. They stole government property, ignore their messages, send taunting shouts and comments, and refuse to change their convoluted name. If they refuse to cooperate with our actual military after all that, they're only one rung higher than a Polish militia.
Brad needs to set aside his ego. What matters in the end is that the former military is coordinated with the other fighting forces in our country and in our alliance. I'm not sure what Avruch could have done any differently. The former military got into this position because their leadership were control freaks. It's sad to see that hasn't changed.
Sounds to me like Brad needs a nice long vacation. This looks to have become something much more than a game to him, and while I can understand that given his position, I can't see how this can be fun for him anymore.
Being a former member of the eUS Mobile Infantry, and now in the USAF, I have got to say the way Brad handled the situation was out of hand. I mean there is fault in both sides, but for the most part Avruch you did your best with good intentions. From what I read, Brad wanted you to have gone to Channing since he is his second in command, but at the same time, he did not want Channing in the NSC? o_O That's contradictory in itself I think. There needs to be more than one point of contact in between the JCS and the NSC, having Brad as the sole point of contact will eventually lead to situations as pointed out in the conversation, and he should understand that. The JCS led military is strong no doubt, and can handle it's own as was mentioned, and it seems to give off the notion that the USAF is trying to boss the JCS led military. That's not the point, the point is we need to be COORDINATED and ORGANIZED in America's defense and offense. Sure the JCS is a paramilitary group and can do whatever it wants, but it's primary goal is to fight for the best interests of America, and what a better way than to close ties with the NSC/SecDef like the rest of the militias are doing? Why can't Brad understand that? 😑
As a neutral civilian, all I see is Bradley not cooperating at all, first thing they tell you when you join any military or militia is to tell your CO of your leave of absence (even for a day). I see even the big boss is not doing it, great example. Avruch's side on this one.
My opinion: Everything is screwed up all to hell and everyone is to blame.
I'm sick of the idiotic finger pointing, all of you be LEADERS and work this crap out so the rest of us can enjoy this damn game we are all trying to play together.
I have friends I care about who I don't get to see daily anymore because of this stupid ego separation, and that is exactly what it is on BOTH sides now. The reasons why this began are being overshadowed by a bunch of ePeen waving bs.
PULL IT TOGETHER, ALL OF YOU, WE RELY ON YOU.
And if YOU people can't figure it out, find some people who truly give a crap about all players, and not just their own politics, to work on fixing it. It's not rocket science.
Bradley looks like he loves pushing things to their limits.
-First you banish your second in command from entering an irc channel,
-disappear afterwards and give an enigmatic "no" as an answer and leave the person in charge clueless,
-when SecDef couldnt reach you and knew Channing was not allowed to NCS, he tries to contact another officer,
-you say he overstepped.
If you didn't do this for trolling and seriously think you are righteous, I think you need professional help, seriously.
This kind of stuff makes me want to quit.
Here's my take on it.
Avruch, you went out of line by going to CyberWitch. You are fully aware that Channing is Brad's 2IC. I understand your reasoning for not going to Channing, but IMO your reasoning wasn't that good. Yes Brad told you not to talk to Channing. So why would you instead purposely go FURTHER down the totem pole to CyberWitch? Avruch I understand you probably thought Brad would be angry for you going to Channing, but Channing was the 2nd in command, CyberWitch is below Channing. You know that, I know that, we all know that. Regardless of what Brad said, you should have went to Channing.
Brad, in my German class we have adopted this term in German for how you acting. Affe Scheisse. It's German for ape shit. Brad you are being unreasonable. That's all I am going to say there.
And Avruch, FYI with cell phones...it is VERY common for text messages you send to sometimes be received at different times. Its very realistic that Brad received your texts out of order. Hell I personally have that happen almost on a daily basis. Hell I once sent a text to someone standing 10 feet from me and he didn't receive it for 3 days, but the 2nd text I sent him he got in seconds.
The JCS blows, end of story.
Fact is, Armandez, Channing isn't around all the time. When I ended up talking to random senior officers in TC and MI, it was because he wasn't there. At the same time we put CW on the access list, we added Channing. The idea wasn't to go around Brad, it was to get more people involved and able to communicate. This whole CoC RP stuff is all fine and well as long as it doesn't cripple our actual game performance; when it does, people need to be a little flexible and allow their subordinates a tiny little bit more autonomy.
As for text messages... Nowhere did Brad argue that he sent me anything more comprehensive than "no" to any text messages between Friday and Monday afternoon.
I am not really familiar with both parties, but here's what I think: If you log out of the game for 2 days without any warning, you shouldn't complain about people taking other measures to ensure everything works fine.
If these things happened in any other country, I am sure as hell the government would contact the admins to get the firms and organizations bought by taxpayer money back.
Stay focus my friends, the world needs a Strong United eUSA
BR
CatBea
Man, if I didn't know any better I could swear this inability to communicate resulted in a catastrophic event. But then I realized it was only a game and nothing of significance actually happened.
Still pointing out that you link to every militia's sign up sheet, the congressional military sign up sheet but still dont link to the eUS Military sign up's.
Guess thats not going to change?
Is there some point at which this all begins to actually make sense?
x2
Something has to be constant in this game, and you can rely on the JCS to be filled with idiots to do just that. Gotta have a baseline.
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they shouldnt have been allowed to steal a single cent, and it seems that emerick hasnt done all he could to take back the government's property
Stealing is serious allegations, post proofs or STFU ! Otherwise You will push us to report any single post which have any clue about "staling".
Doesn't seem like he likes you much avruch 😛
There are always 2 sides to every story. Way to put only 1 side out there Avruch, how kind of you.
No he entendido nada y mira que se inglés/americano.
Votado y suscrito.Pole!
I dunno Cstarlight21, I'm pretty sure I put out both sides of the log. Brad's argument is I should have tried harder to contact Channing. If you read the log, you see that argument is answered there. What else is there to say?
Relorian - if you give me the links and images you want used, I can change it. They link to newspapers, not apps, but presumably almost every article at all the linked papers contain app links? Same links the DoD always had, btw.
Brad has crappy service, didn't he already use the no service excuse when he was POTUS?
>Camping
Im p sure thats out into the woods sunny, I doubt most services would reach him anyway
And the point of discussion isnt that brad was away for a bit, it is that Avruch decided against talking to the vCJCS, and opted to publish an article such as this in order to create further dissension between the 2 groups
Jankems...
Normally we coordinate with Brad. That means, in the past, we wait for Brad to be around, or if time is running out, I text him. If I'd known Brad wasn't going to be around, maybe I would've started earlier trying to find an alternative. In the event, I did actually look for Channing - he wasn't around at that particular point. Channing wasn't my normal "next point of contact" because I'd specifically asked Brad if he wanted Channing included and been told no, and because it's been obvious all along that Brad prefers to be the single exchange between the exec and the JCS.
We've found the IRC channel to be pretty useful. It's handy, for me and the other folks involved, to get a sense of not just the plan but also the planning, and to have input into what can and can't be done. Maybe you're used to making decisions in isolation and feeding people orders, but since most of the military groups nowadays don't directly work for me, that isn't an option.
"Don't like Channing so didn't PM him" - I don't know Channing at all other than by reputation. Most of the PMs I've sent him at various times over the last year went unreturned, an experience I'm told is quite common. Even so, if he'd been around at the time I would've PM'd him, and if he likes he's got access in the NSC room and is free to idle there.
Finally - my motive in posting this is to appeal to other people. Other than #TC, people in the exec are pretty shut out from forums of communication that can reach people in the JCS-mil. Since Brad will no longer speak to me and the status quo is essentially untenable, I didn't see another better option than to show people what's going on and ask them to suggest solutions. My ulterior motives are to make this work and to do a good job as Secretary of Defense.
>people in the exec are pretty shut out from forums of communication that can reach people in the JCS-mil
http://eusmil.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1089
As you can see, Emerick is still marked as POTUS, and still has access to the JCS forums.
Please note the fact that the last time he logged in to our forums was April 10th, so despite the ability to check the JCS's itinerary for the day, he has elected to ignore them. However, if you think you are better suited to check up on us, I would suggest contacting Breala or Jankems, and see if we can set you up instead
Man, if I didn't know any better I could swear this inability to communicate resulted in a catastrophic event. But then I realized it was only a game and nothing of significance actually happened. x2
We had finally reached a more peaceful place in which to interact with one another and THEN logs get published. Was it REALLY that necessary to stir things up again? We were in the path to moving forward and now we get thrown into another mudslinging setback.
Moreover, posting logs: never a good idea without informing the other and asking them. It is a practice I try to employ.
Stop with the blame and get in the game. Start fighting what matters. So much complaining gets so damn tiring. And DO NOT accuse us of stealing. It's not like I am lining my pockets with money. They are employed for the same purpose as it ever was: fighting for the eUSA. Until you find me proof that I have mishandling funds, or stealing, or anything of the sort, stop making accusations.
> So rather than trying to plan for a contingency and get things started, you intentionally let things fail?
No, he saw a problem and adapted to it. Brad took Avruch's solution as a personal attack, and refused to back down in the face of Avruch's attempt at a rational explanation. When Avruch tried to create an alternative to his problematic actions for future situations, Brad took it as a further personal attack, and got more belligerent. This is an unfortunate trend in Brad's interactions with other players.
Avruch admitted that he got "testy" toward the end. I'd say he started making it personal toward the middle. I don't know that I would have been as patient as Avruch was in the face of Brad's aggravated douchbaggery.
All I see in that log is Brad upset that someone went over his head to make sure America was getting all the damage it could.
x2
So many spinners in these comments. You would figure the government would be better at this game, but they aren't.
This all boils down to Avruch getting his panties in a bind when BR decided he wants personal time. NO one person in this game has the right to question anyone's RL commitments or personal life. TBH, I am surprised BR didn't tell Avruch to go sit on the can and wait for him. Fact of the matter here, Avruch overstepped his boundries, and now feels the need to attempt to portray BR as the bad guy. You guys are pretty lucky someone like me isn't in charge, you'd have gotten the middle finger and been told to go fornicate yourself in the most heinous way possible.
Another note: I love all this "same team" crap. Exactly what it is. I will confirm we are on the same team when the eUS government and its semi-retarded leader stop trying to interfere with the running of our military. Then...we are on the same team.
Until that happens, show's over here, nothing to see.
Something I've noticed in these comments for those against what Avruch did and the chat logs is there seems to be a lot of intentionally placed miscommunication stringing from the issue. Which seems to be done mainly by the militia JCS so when something is mistaken for an official response they can later hold it against him to attack him later down the road and frame him for incompetence for him not knowing exactly what they meant at all times.
Either way, it is quite obvious to me that there is a lot of contempt between both parties with both sides intentionally instigating flare ups to smear one another. Yet, most of it is coming from the JCS who as usual have a pack dog mentality to try to gang up with their clique and followers and fight who ever opposes how they do business regardless of how polite and "within best interest" a person may have approached them and then chip away at their opponent publicly until they have convinced enough people they aren't the bad guys when they were clearly the ones acting out of line.
Dude, Jankems. On the one hand, I'm supposed to develop contingencies for communicating with other people. On the other hand, Brad tells me (not weeks ago, but LAST WEEK) not to bring Channing in after I suggest it, then freaks out when I set up plans to include other people - and demands to be the only point of contact, period. So, what are you talking about?
As for "lost half the country to Spain and Mexico" - this just proves you have no idea what's been going on. We intentionally dropped region after non-critical region in order to help our allies in other places. There's a war on, man, try to follow.
I'd respond to the rest of your comments, but really what is the point? What I've personally observed from you over a long period of time is an extreme aversion to change and criticism, and an almost complete inability to admit fault. You've trained those qualities into Brad, and where has it got us?
"...a woman you can batter." Give me a break. Go peddle that crap somewhere else.
Final comment on this article from me - people can claim what they want about Congress and the executive, and me and the new military, etc. We're interfering, bumbling, stupid, arrogant, overbearing, whatever you want.
But the log speaks for itself. It's one example in a month of conversations, and it is singular in no other way. I worked with Brad, I dressed down people who argued with him in the NSC room, I acted as an interlocutor when he refused to communicate directly with other people, I included him in the plans, I listened to his advice, I never tried to order him around, etc. I don't think there is a single person Emerick could have picked for SecDef this term that would have put more effort into cooperating. So you can sling all the mud at me that you want, but good luck in ever improving this situation if this is what happens when people actually TRY to work with you.
Broad up such things in public is not intention to solve some communication possible problems, it is political crap to make pressure on US Military members and then is plan that they should come to "new army" because of "incompetence" of US Military ?
What do You want ? What You will do Avruch ? Cut our fundings from government ? Wait, You can't do that... Uhm, let me see, Sack Bradley ? xD Ups, You can't do that, that can do only Joint Chiefs of staff.
Well said, Av. We see what's going on daily and we stand by you.
BS
HisAirness, you're not helping yourself, your military organization, or your eNation. You're just pissing into the wind for the sake of looking like a hard-ass. Instead, you look like a fool soaked in his own piss.
@DeyoZero: He makes a valid point. Bringing this up in public in what is clearly an act to discredit Brad and indirectly as a result, the entire eUS Military under the Joint Chiefs, is political, not practical.
This article serves to divide us further, which is pure hypocrisy to the title of this article and the arguments Avruch is making. This is by no means the right way to attempt to fix an issue. This is Avruch and the people who hate the JCS attempting to play the politics game to discredit the single largest military force in the nation (yes, it still is). How is *that* fighting on the same team?
Guess what? It isn't.
Avruch, if you really wanted to play the "We're in this together" card, you never would've posted this article. You've lost even more of your credibility with this, since it proves your motives are not related to communication by any means, but they are geared towards discrediting the military, quite possibly in an attempt to bolster the fledgling USAF.
@Everyone Else: Cut through the crap. It's obvious this was posted for politics. If he really wanted to mend fences and work on communication he wouldn't have done this.
The immaturity in both the private conversation and this public article bore me.