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修造：シューーーっ　

萌。いや、燃え＾＾
勝算がないと思うが...
まあ、戦争のゲーム、お楽しみ。

Teach me Japanese

> Shirobu

Go take a class in RL...😛

kabuyaPTT>> ゾッ！
cuihao>> 燃え尽きた・・・ｗ
Shirobu>> As Chise E Tamai pointed out, taking a class is the best way to efficiently and effectively learn a language. Alot of people go on about how they self studied and that the couple years spent immersed in Japan was all they needed to be able to communicate on a daily basis. However, from experience I can tell you that their Japanese is partial, in-comprehensive, often contains heavy native language accent and weird pitch changing / stress patterns.

The overinflated sense of language proficiency comes from Japanese people not pointing out their language flaws and only complementing. That being said, language is not all about learning some vocab / grammar and this is where I am a firm advocate to education facilities. Without the socio-cultural and historically embedded information of words and expressions, not only do the physical aspects of conveying that information (body language etc) but also the mental aspects （空気読め・・・） are erroneous.

9 days too late, but whatever. Damn, Hidenshi also has kickass English as well. Personally, I've always been of the thinking that, "compliments build arrogance."...,oh god. I was going to put something after that quote, but I can't think of a way to do it without making my sentence a complete mess. And I have to write a 5 page summer assignment soon. Bleh. Anyways, the best way to learn a language is to be born in the country whose language you want to learn. Impossible now, sure.

Sadly, I'm in the same "boat" as it being in-comprehensive. Sure, I can read better than I can write, but am I truly understanding what I'm reading, or am I just thinking I am without actually "getting" it? Sure, this one is straight-forward, and then I get a picture that hurts my eyes, making me yell, "I CAN ONLY GAIN 10 STRENGTH A DAY", at whoever that is. Classes, well, they have a bad connotation in my mind. When I think of a class, I think of some useless phrases, only polite form, and

just taking six months to learn Kana. After that, more simple crap that even a kindergardener would feel above. At least, that's what I think of it. Hell, I'd probably had already caved and gotton one hadn't it been for the $100-180 price tag and the fact that my dad, as I'm still undersage, avoided the subject and THEN took my whole month of June up with Driving Lessons. And then school starts next week, so I'm left to my own devices, which I don't think are good. I don't read over what I write

「自分で勉強が影響させるだけでない違い意味をくれるでしょうか」と言われる問題は彼ら（件の「間違っている者達）のように私も悪くなってたかもしれない。クラスで学べと良く聞こえるのに無理でしょう。時間と金等無し人として余り勉強出来ないからいけないか？確かに日本人先生や良く鍛えられる先生が助けるそうだ。私には始めて所とは？クラスで勉強して欲しくないその為、さらに「過去の文法を見ると上手になってほどが分かれるよ」と駄目だ。未来にも駄目と思っているのにしか続けない。面白くないこれ
でもね、まだ続ければ良くなるか？また間違っている。最初の間違う事とは日本語を勉強する思いのだ。止めよう。あんたが読みたくないに違いないし、とにかく私に（とっても醜い文法を作らせているから）侮辱しろ。
What did I just write? I have no fucking clue.

I can empathize with the "just taking six months to learn Kana" statement you have used. When I first started learning Japanese in highschool it was something along the lines of Hiragana 1 year, Katakana 1 year, basic 100 kanji 2 years. Personally feeling the pace too slow I memorized it all in the space of a few months using the provided ~~academic materials~~ and then subsequently used the classroom and teacher (without disturbing the learning of other students) as a platform for self study.

So, then, you aren't native Japanese. Well, you've thorogly fooled me, good job on you. My main problem with the class, as has been said, was a fucking slow ass pace. It only took me a month to learn Kana fairly well. Another month/2 for JLPT5 Kanji meanings, words with them, getting familiar with stroke order. And then here I am 4 months later. Still hardly improved. I looked at the place in my city, the only place, that teaches Japanese. They use Genki. I looked at Genki from a pdf.

I look at it, and I say, besides all the words I don't know, I'm above this. But then again, am I? I fear I've lodged myself in an awkward position here. I mean, what did I say to ask where my starting location would be? ”私には始めて所とは?”. Sure, it looks all right to me, but me alone probably. How long has it been since you started learning Japanese in highscool, and, if it's not too much of a bother, how did you go about studying?

Regarding your text, were I to give an equivalent feeling in english (note that the following is not an accurate translation but the representation of information I digested when reading the paragraph;

The problem said "difference not only effected by the study of oneself does give a reason?" is to those like them (the mistaken people of incident) I also may have become worse. Even though I often hear learn in the class that is likely impossible. ...cont

Is it bad because that people don't have time and money can't study much? It seems to be that indeed Japanese teachers and teachers that train well help. My first what is place? Don't want to study in class for that, even further "when look at past grammar become good the more you will understand" this is bad. Also in future even if thinking this bad can only continue. Not interesting this but if continue will get better? Again is mistaken. The first mistake is the idea to study Japanese. cont

Let's stop. It is most certain that you do not wish to read and in any case insult me (because I am making make very ugly grammar)."

So yes admittedly there are some grammatical issues there, but I would assume that the information you were trying to get across is in essence being conveyed to the person that reads between the lines.

Well, I'm not sure if that's an equivalent feeling, or just trying to translate it roughly. One thing I've noticed is to, not, well try to translate it into English. Maybe it's just because of what I write, but without taking liberties, all of it will sound odd, no matter how well written it is. Take, 「過去の文法を見ると上手になってほどが分かれるよ" Were I to, because I had thought of it in English beforehand, translate it, it came to me like "If you look at the grammar of your past, you will see the degree to which y

ou have improvedよ. Well, not see, but 分かる. Well, you get what I mean. In some cases, I think, Japanese does things a lot simpiler than English to convey the same meaning. Then again, you are the expert.

Likewise, let's look at
未来にも駄目と思っているのにしか続けない
You give me, Also in future even if thinking this bad can only continue
But (because I can't stop using English), I get "And in the future, although I am thinking it to be useless, I can only continue."
Come to think of it, that sentence is kind of, "What was I thinking?"

I can understand where you are coming from (this is why I opted not to literally translate it but give a representation)

For example I would translate, "If you look at the grammar of your past, you will see the degree to which you have improved" to 「昔自分が使っていた文法を見てみると、今の自分がどれだけの成長を成し遂げたのかを確認できる」 >> translating this back >> "If you look at the grammar you used in the past, you can ascertain how much growth you have currently accomplished."

The only thing I don't get in your example is the のかを, but besides that, I'm hit with, "そうそうそうそうそうx1000"

and "And in the future, although I am thinking it to be useless, I can only continue." to 「そして未来に続いて、無駄な努力と思いつつも、続くことしかできない」 >> and back again >> "And continuing into the future, even while thinking that it is a futile effort, I can only continue"

Of course by no means was what I wrote above your posts an accurate translation (to be honest translation of grammatical awkwardness is extremely difficult). I was merely trying to convey the image of, "I get the general idea." feeling.

Well, I'm not that bad as to not be able to understand your translations. I get them. I completely see how you're doing it, but I'm not able to make them out of thin air. Reading is a lot easier than making, isn't it?

のかを：
The の is simply a softener particle.
The か is nominalizing 「どれだけの成長を成し遂げたの」
The を is required particle for the object of 確認 verb form

Yes, most certainly, digesting is alot easier than producing. (Especially since producing by nature requires a relatively exponential amount of digestion in order to function efficiently. This is wall existing between learning grammar structures and 'understanding' the nuance of a phrase)

This is going to be stupid but,

since when did か nominalise? I my mind, it was all....の (Okay, so it's like 事 but he actually cares about it.)...か (What, this is a question? のか?)....を(THE HELL IS THIS か!?) In my mind as well, you could just do away with that か, and it leaves the same impression.

Well, in any case, 「しか続けない」と書いたので続こう。
Simple; I didn't mess it up, I know that.

か nominalizes the just like の, it just does it for clauses which are questions.
私は彼がりんごを食べたのを確認した >> I confirmed that he ate the apple.
私は彼がりんごを食べたかを確認した >> I confirmed whether he ate the apple.

So yes you could get rid of the か but;
① that would mean どれだけの成長を成し遂げたの（か） would no longer be a question but instead a statement and would thus require the removal of adverb どれだけ (how much)
② the softener particle の would have to be a nominalizing の instead to keep the sentence grammatically sound

So in this case
どれだけの成長を成し遂げたのかを確認できる Can confirm how much growth was accomplished (or not)
成長を成し遂げたのを確認できる Can confirm growth was accomplished

The major difference between the question and statement is that in the case of the questionative phrase, growth can be null (e.g. did not use Japanese for a year and thus compared to the grammar I used I have not accomplished growth 成長を成し遂げたのか＜そうでないか／どうか＞を確認できる) whereas a statement is just that. It assumes growth.

Okay, back to私は彼がりんごを食べたかを確認した

彼がりんごを食べたか　is more like a quote that someone asked, or no one (it doesn't matter), and you を確認した to it? Of course, this thinking might be wrong to me, because I could see myself trying to put と after か and making somesort of sentence wherein I said I confirmed that.

To be more presice, I'm talking about the fact that I probably would have said 私は「彼がりんごを食べたのか？」と言われる質問を確認した。Does that change the meaning of the sentence, or is it just redudant because the かを already tells us that it's a question, and I don't need to quote it then say that the question is called this.

Lastly, now that you've explained its use was to indicated whether or not grammar has improved, I'd say it was slightly off from my intentional meaning. The reason I used と to mean if, as I understand it, is to give it a 100% certainty that if you look at this, then Y. Of course if you do anything, there's a 100% chance that something will or will not happen. So, I mean昔自分が使っていた文法を見てみると、今の自分が成長を成し遂げたのを確認できる and 昔自分が使っていた文法を見てみれば、今の自分がどれだけの成長を成し遂げたのかを確認できる for two small changes.Might ruin grammar

It was more of an encouragement phrase than anything else...

that I followed up with と無駄だ

The problem with putting a quote around it and treating it like you actually questioned whether he ate the apple or not is that it DEFINES the situation... You asked him whether he ate the apple.

Now it goes without saying asking isn't the only way of checking. (You could have been watching, looked in the fridge afterwards to find missing apple, etc)
The method of confirmation is not defined in the sentences I provided. This is a difference in nuance.

Just something to note here is that I am not literally asking a question.

The か here is merely querying the state of ate / didn't eat.
Making an example in English.

He ate the apple [statement]
Did he eat the apple [question]
I checked that I checked whether
In the case of Japanese the above is pretty much; 'I checked

All right, I see it now. Thanks.