Desertfalcon vs Atlantis, a civil war?
Day 468, 07:18
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Published in USA 
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by
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by Misho
Desertfalcon is running for US-president and has 'leave Atlantis' as one point on his agenda.
This is one of his comments in his latest article:
"@Misho
I am not running to gain the support of Atlantis, there is a growing "fuck atlantis" mentality over here and I share the same views. I would be willing to try and work things out with other nations (hence the wait a few weeks part) however its going to take a lot of convincing to get us to stay. America does not need Atlantis, we are a powerful nation and can have alliances without being tied down to the obligations of a huge alliance bloc."
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/desertfalcon-for-president-foreign-policy-744292/1/all
USA is big and powerful, I agree.
Is USA big and powerful enough to stand alone? I know that USA is quite far from being the eNation that can inflict most points in war, but I also realize that USA will increase. How ever it will probably never be stronger alone than country 2,3 and 4 together.
If we add the other 50 countries the calculation gets more complex. eRepublik doesn't play by the same rules as irl. USA are far from the most populated country in the world and as soon other languages are added to the game we can expect rapid population increase in lots of Asian countries.
I also know that kicking Big Brother eUSA in the groin would be the first pick of tons of countries. From France via Iran, Russia, Indonesia all they way to Mexico.
Now we have a 'situation'. USA did not as stated in the treaty inform its fellow Alliance members that it should attack Mexico. A formally could one say, the eUK citizen Dishmcds didn't agree and spoke up against eUSA.
This isn't the first time this rule is broken, both Spain and Romania have done it before and we have had quite tempered discussions very similar to this one before also.
Now several eAmericans are raging against Atlantis in general and United Kingdom in special.
Personally I will be the first one to wish eUSA good luck and declare no hard feelings if it decides to leave the alliance. We have cooperated well, eSweden managed to match eUSA in points made in the first days of battle in the French war. We tried to handle over low-Q weapons to eUSA. We paid the fee for eCanada so they could declare war and in turn help us, the Brits and eUSA. I support a requested gold loan from eSweden to eUSA and so on.
We didn't lose the French War cause Atlantis countries didn't fight. We did fight, we made over a million point! PEACE GC has how ever, give or take, twice as many member countries and the MPP structure perhaps in combination with the Gold glitch didn't work in our way.
The Swede Karl Holm tried it out and made 108K Gold just to see how it worked - if only a fraction of that Gold had been put in on the Atlantis side the outcome of the war would have been different.
I think everyone with insight have agreed that fake Gold was a factor in the French War.
I am also the first one to admit that the Atlantis countries could have coordinated better but I also understand why eUSA hesitated more than once. It was an open discussion in United States Worker Party to impeach the US President - these critics where very silent the first 48 hours of the war.
Now why would I not chose to fight to keep eUSA in Atlantis?
The answer to the question is pragmatic. If eUSA can't get along with eUK then who am I to think that I or any eSwede could make a difference?
I mean Dishmcds has been President of both eUSA and eUK, if he is elected by US-Atlantis haters to be the scapegoat to tear Atlantis apart then what chance would a guy like me have?
We have another former eUS-President in the Atlantis forums, Roby Petric former party leader of United States Worker Party.
If these guys who share the same language and the same love of eUSA can't do it then what difference could guys like me do who hasn't even been to an English speaking country irl and frankly think that Americans are quite ignorant from time to time.
Desertfalcon says that if he gets elected he aim to stay in Atlantis for a couple of weeks and use that time to find other countries to build a new alliance with.
I silently wonder what countries would that be?
If eAmericans can't get a long with eUK and start screaming Boston Tea party when eUSA has violated a contract and eUK points it out, they with what counties could it work?
Will it be easier with eBrazil?
"Eu não, você pode levá-la em Português?"
With Indonesia?
"Saya tidak, Anda bisa bawa ada di Indonesia?"
Or perhaps with Italy?
"Non si può prendere in italiano?"
In a game like this we can't take smooth communication for granted.
89% of all Swedes use English as "linguage franca".
File:Knowledge English EU map.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Knowledge_English_EU_map.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_speaking_Europe
Fact is if you randomly pick a guy or a gal from Sweden it's a higher possibility that you can communicate in English/American with him/her then if you randomly pick a guy or gal in the United States of America!
89% vs 83% (!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Language
Presidents will come and go in this game, politics will change, maps will be rewritten, raw materials re-distributed, rules changed and new borders added.
Basically the only barriers that will remain are the language barriers.
If eUSA can't get along with eUK or by all means with eSweden, then the problem isn't communication since eUSA will for sure not find it easier to communicate with other countries.
The Atlantis Treaty is not written in stone. I changed it the last time, it was honestly a quick fix to adopt it to V1 of eRepublik and I managed to get all the members to vote it through and sign it.
It has been up as Global Announcement in the Atlantis forums for months so its kind of hard to miss for the Presidents and Ministers visiting it.
I don't think an alliance with Brazil, Indonesia or Italy would be easier and with less communication flaws.
The Atlantis Treaty can be changed and frankly needs to be up dated, you can find it on the Wikipedia, search for Atlantis.
Helping us change it is better than hunting scapegoats, especially since those you point out as such are your friends.
Sometimes a friend must step up and tell the truth, even if it hurts. Even if it would be much easier to lie.
Yes, even if it may risk the friendship.
Signed
Misho
Minister of Defense for eSweden for nine months, now some kind of.. let's call it Atlantis bartender..!
=======================================
Don't miss the new article series in the Onion,
Platon says we are back wards people, part 1:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/plato-says-we-are-backwards-people-part-1--732841/1/20
Platon says we are back wards people, part 2: Education system
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/plato-says-we-are-backwards-people-part-2-education-system--733564/1/20
Plato says we are backwards people, part 3. Airports, Hotels and Railroads!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/plato-says-we-are-backwards-people-part-3-airports-hotels-and-railroads--739321/1/20
=======================================
This is one of his comments in his latest article:
"@Misho
I am not running to gain the support of Atlantis, there is a growing "fuck atlantis" mentality over here and I share the same views. I would be willing to try and work things out with other nations (hence the wait a few weeks part) however its going to take a lot of convincing to get us to stay. America does not need Atlantis, we are a powerful nation and can have alliances without being tied down to the obligations of a huge alliance bloc."
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/desertfalcon-for-president-foreign-policy-744292/1/all
USA is big and powerful, I agree.
Is USA big and powerful enough to stand alone? I know that USA is quite far from being the eNation that can inflict most points in war, but I also realize that USA will increase. How ever it will probably never be stronger alone than country 2,3 and 4 together.
If we add the other 50 countries the calculation gets more complex. eRepublik doesn't play by the same rules as irl. USA are far from the most populated country in the world and as soon other languages are added to the game we can expect rapid population increase in lots of Asian countries.
I also know that kicking Big Brother eUSA in the groin would be the first pick of tons of countries. From France via Iran, Russia, Indonesia all they way to Mexico.
Now we have a 'situation'. USA did not as stated in the treaty inform its fellow Alliance members that it should attack Mexico. A formally could one say, the eUK citizen Dishmcds didn't agree and spoke up against eUSA.
This isn't the first time this rule is broken, both Spain and Romania have done it before and we have had quite tempered discussions very similar to this one before also.
Now several eAmericans are raging against Atlantis in general and United Kingdom in special.
Personally I will be the first one to wish eUSA good luck and declare no hard feelings if it decides to leave the alliance. We have cooperated well, eSweden managed to match eUSA in points made in the first days of battle in the French war. We tried to handle over low-Q weapons to eUSA. We paid the fee for eCanada so they could declare war and in turn help us, the Brits and eUSA. I support a requested gold loan from eSweden to eUSA and so on.
We didn't lose the French War cause Atlantis countries didn't fight. We did fight, we made over a million point! PEACE GC has how ever, give or take, twice as many member countries and the MPP structure perhaps in combination with the Gold glitch didn't work in our way.
The Swede Karl Holm tried it out and made 108K Gold just to see how it worked - if only a fraction of that Gold had been put in on the Atlantis side the outcome of the war would have been different.
I think everyone with insight have agreed that fake Gold was a factor in the French War.
I am also the first one to admit that the Atlantis countries could have coordinated better but I also understand why eUSA hesitated more than once. It was an open discussion in United States Worker Party to impeach the US President - these critics where very silent the first 48 hours of the war.
Now why would I not chose to fight to keep eUSA in Atlantis?
The answer to the question is pragmatic. If eUSA can't get along with eUK then who am I to think that I or any eSwede could make a difference?
I mean Dishmcds has been President of both eUSA and eUK, if he is elected by US-Atlantis haters to be the scapegoat to tear Atlantis apart then what chance would a guy like me have?
We have another former eUS-President in the Atlantis forums, Roby Petric former party leader of United States Worker Party.
If these guys who share the same language and the same love of eUSA can't do it then what difference could guys like me do who hasn't even been to an English speaking country irl and frankly think that Americans are quite ignorant from time to time.
Desertfalcon says that if he gets elected he aim to stay in Atlantis for a couple of weeks and use that time to find other countries to build a new alliance with.
I silently wonder what countries would that be?
If eAmericans can't get a long with eUK and start screaming Boston Tea party when eUSA has violated a contract and eUK points it out, they with what counties could it work?
Will it be easier with eBrazil?
"Eu não, você pode levá-la em Português?"
With Indonesia?
"Saya tidak, Anda bisa bawa ada di Indonesia?"
Or perhaps with Italy?
"Non si può prendere in italiano?"
In a game like this we can't take smooth communication for granted.
89% of all Swedes use English as "linguage franca".
File:Knowledge English EU map.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Knowledge_English_EU_map.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_speaking_Europe
Fact is if you randomly pick a guy or a gal from Sweden it's a higher possibility that you can communicate in English/American with him/her then if you randomly pick a guy or gal in the United States of America!
89% vs 83% (!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Language
Presidents will come and go in this game, politics will change, maps will be rewritten, raw materials re-distributed, rules changed and new borders added.
Basically the only barriers that will remain are the language barriers.
If eUSA can't get along with eUK or by all means with eSweden, then the problem isn't communication since eUSA will for sure not find it easier to communicate with other countries.
The Atlantis Treaty is not written in stone. I changed it the last time, it was honestly a quick fix to adopt it to V1 of eRepublik and I managed to get all the members to vote it through and sign it.
It has been up as Global Announcement in the Atlantis forums for months so its kind of hard to miss for the Presidents and Ministers visiting it.
I don't think an alliance with Brazil, Indonesia or Italy would be easier and with less communication flaws.
The Atlantis Treaty can be changed and frankly needs to be up dated, you can find it on the Wikipedia, search for Atlantis.
Helping us change it is better than hunting scapegoats, especially since those you point out as such are your friends.
Sometimes a friend must step up and tell the truth, even if it hurts. Even if it would be much easier to lie.
Yes, even if it may risk the friendship.
Signed
Misho
Minister of Defense for eSweden for nine months, now some kind of.. let's call it Atlantis bartender..!
=======================================
Don't miss the new article series in the Onion,
Platon says we are back wards people, part 1:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/plato-says-we-are-backwards-people-part-1--732841/1/20
Platon says we are back wards people, part 2: Education system
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/plato-says-we-are-backwards-people-part-2-education-system--733564/1/20
Plato says we are backwards people, part 3. Airports, Hotels and Railroads!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/plato-says-we-are-backwards-people-part-3-airports-hotels-and-railroads--739321/1/20
=======================================
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Comments
USA is lacking war. Up to now eUSA tryed to aviod IRL USA example when they fought all over the world. Unfortunatly the war module is the most fun, and they will start fighting.
Anyway it is going to be interesting to see of the USA will renew its MPP-s with Atlantis, or if they will expire how will it fight against a PEACE counter attack started from France.
If they will keep the MPP's than it's going to be "Like eating a cake and still have it."
Greatly spoken, Misho! Voted!
Voted!
Great article!
Voted. I'm with desert on his views though. If we are the only country that is gonna get screwed by the contract I say whatever to the atlantis treaty. We can have alliances with brazil. Communication might be bad for a while but there are ways around that.
ATLANTIS will evolve and possibly even get stronger with some new members, but I hope the domestic politics in eUSA and eUK will not be the reason for USA to leave.
Voted.
other countries...hmmh...which countries could he mean?
@DKN, we have a quite strong Mars-colony who likes to join.
We are considering it especially since it would give us access to its intergalactic laser cannon!
From Desertfalcon's article: "Operation French toast was a complete failure and after that the alliance has not worked well together."
It's obvious that he doesn't consider the circumstances during that war. The alliance is working very well since I haven't seen anyhting that speaks against it.
What do Americans expect to get from ATLANTIS?
An alliance is about teamwork, tactics and offering protection, not conquering the most regions. If someone fails to see this, well, then I feel pity for that being.
hmm.voted
I am sick of Atlantis, I really hope Desert can get us out of that alliance.
Desertfalcon for President!
buy cheap weapons from Best_weapons.Only 10.71 USD
I fail to see how it is helpful to be in an alliance with countries that obviously do not work well together or support each other. In our war against Mexico two of the heros for the Mexican side were from other Atlantis nations. You call that team work? Your point about Sweden never saying they did not did the Northern alliance is irelevant as well. Sweden needed the northern alliance because that was the only way they could invade other countries without contest. There was no way Sweden could of held onto Germany, Denmark, and Poland on their own. Same for Norway with Finland and Russia.
What a surprise most people who agree with Misho are Swedish...
RANDOMDUDED, you have low wellness, have never fought a sigle fight and has no job.
Do you do other things than vote in this game..?
Misho, Karl, et. al.,
As I pointed out in the comments to Dessertfalcon's article, he does not get a vote right now. He ran for Congress and he lost. He is currently running for President, but he has not won. With attitudes like this, he should not win. Even if he did, he would need Congressional support for any actions.
You also notice other Americans commenting and being very vocal in their opinions. In many cases, again, they are the vocal minority that has no vote.
Those of us that DO have a vote (I get 1) have no intention of breaking ties with Sweden. In fact, I went so far as to say that if the US does break ties with Sweden, Spain and/or Canada, I'd rather join you guys than stay here. I will admit, I DO want war. There are only 3 buttons to push in this game, and I don't want to limit it to just 2. But, I don't want war with our respected allies, including yourselves, on the battlefield of war or the battlefield of media.
I should point out for anyone reading this, that I am, in fact, the current Ambassador to Sweden. I am not "siding" with you simply because of that. I would have these opinions even if I ended my position today.
So, just to reiterate:
Misho > Dessertfalcon
America > Dessertfalcon
Nearly 90 % of our articles are in English 😉 and I consider Germany as an country that is able to speak English.
Can I have a drink? @ Misho
Desertfalcon, do you realize that eSweden was the eCountry with highest population at the time? That eSwedens Military was ranked nr1 in the game?
What guys are you talking about? There are no well known Atlantis tanks as war heroes in these battles. Luingper!? Its the first time I have ever seen the guy! So ho are you talking about?
Is it possible they didn't knew which side they where supposed to fight on? Information, communication.
Basically that's why countries are requested to announce in time that they are going to attack so we can _prepare_ information and post it when the declaration is a fact.
DKN, are you the kind of guy who ask your friends girlfriend for a date when she and your friend have a quarrel? *Taps up and beer and listens to the answer.*
Great article. Well said
Equality 7-2521,
I think Uncle Sam is doing a great job with eUSA and you can't simply play this game without wars. 85% of what we produce are only for war! It's written in the game mechanics.
USA vs Indonesia or Iran could be an Epic battle bringing lots of fun, diplomatic, articles and role playing to the game.
Actually Misho, I'm siding with DF on this one. Atlantis has sort of gotten stale - all alliances have. But we shouldn't leave because we don't get along well with the other countries in Atlantis; no, we should leave because our military ideals should be shifting to defensive.
Great, Voted
I heart Misho 😃
Great article
As always excellent article.
"Pacifica" will not past
Freedom!
Democracy!
Power!
ATLANTIS!
>we have a quite strong Mars-colony who likes to join.
We are considering it especially since it would give us access to its intergalactic laser cannon!
Ahhh!!! Damn you Misho, you found our secret colony.
Poor Article, and opinion
I think eUSA's problem with ATLANTIS was the hypocrisy of trying to make us pay the penalty. In addition we were angered by ATLANTIS (especially eUK) citizens fighting in mexico against us. If we are to remain an alliance how can we trust that ATLANTIS wont turn its back on us?
@Benn Dover, where in the name of shifting things do you read that Atlantis is about offense and conquering things?
In Atlantis no country is obliged in any way to help a fellow member in offense. The alliance is constructed as a strictly Defense Alliance.
So basically all critics against Atlantis for failing on offense are a hit in the air. Criticize Atlantis for failing when it fails in Defense!
I know that Brazil want US-support, but not for Defense. No, they want Western Cape with High Diamonds. They want help in offense, ironically against Indonesia.
Excellent article, Misho. I think that Atlantis members need to remember that the core reason for the alliance is mutual defense. However, it does not confer on other nations the right to dictate the foreign policy of it's fellow members. I think instead of the eUSA rethinking its membership in Atlantis, the eUK should consider joining the ESA. The eUK has become very pacifist in recent administrations and very much needs to focus on its economy. Perhaps countries that understand the importance of warring to build strength to oppose PEACE can still figur out ways to work together without feeling the need to meddle in each others domestic issues.
General Eugene Harlot
Commandant, eUSMC
Gaius Julius, with a name like that you must know more than plenty about politics and back stabs right?
Can you give a list of the countries which has requested the USA to pay the fee for the US-violation? And then perhaps a list of countries who asked Spain to pay?
Spain actually said that they would pay those who asked them to. Then no body asked for it.
In this case two UK officials have asked for it, one who has access to Atlantis forums and one former US president (who not has access to the forums).
As far as I know no other country has asked for it - at least not yet. Not Sweden, Norway, Finland, Spain, Croatia, Romania or Canada.
Hypocrisy?
Looks like the eUK is the one out of step here. And I have been trying to get eMericans to understand that Dish/eUK 😕= Atlantis. The eUK needs Atlantis for defense. But if they feel that they can diplomaticly co-exist with PEACE neighbors like France and Italy, then let them do so.
Misho in the entire world the english is a language franca, and in erepublik when we speak with foreigners we use english.
Principe Alessandro, what good is it if those you talk to can't understand it?
You can't get away by saying "English is also lingua franca in Indonesia, Brazil and Italy" since it doesn't mean a thing if people can't read it!
Write a somewhat complex article in English in the eItalian or eIndonesian media - do you believe that more than 2/3-3/4 of the readers understand it?
For the rest - and that is a quite large group - you could just as well have written it in Elfish or Klingon! 😛
With Swedes, Brits(!), Norwegians and so on you can speak English without problem regardless of who we elect to a new position.
I've read diplomatic irc logs from Italians where I cant even guess what they try to say.
I see two references to the gold glitch. Again.
I want to point a few things out:
- Admins have stated the glitch was only active during 1 weekend.
- Players have been falsely accused a lot, by example when they just happen to buy a lot of gold.
- Within PEACE I had never heared about the gold glitch until the day it became known within eRepublik. And that being active, having the access and while hearing about other bugs as soon as they became known (and reporting them instantly). Actually, the whole channel was surprised and angry when seeing an org in a certain country (it being an org it doesn't matter which) with 12k gold.
The rest of the conflict is Atlantis business. However, I can't really see Atlantis as a really defensive alliance, The main cause are of course the actions of single states and especially the attack on France.
I often read people thinking Atlantis is there to defend the world from PEACE GC but people should not forget PEACE GC was actually created in order to be able to give some counterweight against Atlantis (which in essence was as many large countries as possible teaming up).
The reaction coming out of the eUS is a response to the attack by Dishmcds. It may be a vocal minority yelling now, but if ATLANTIS does decide to levy the 900 gold fine on the eUS and not on eSpain or eRomania, it will most definitely be a majority.
The only reason there is a problem at all is that we ourselves didn't intend to go full-blown war with Mexico 48 hours in advance, and Dishmcds is attacking us for it.
Although eGermany isn't a member of Atlantis, I do have views on the matter. Frankly right now Atlantis needs to stay strong and vigilant in light of PEACE. Sure your enemies are broke and failing, but this is not the time to show weakness.
I understand that Atlantis has had infrastructure problems in the past and in many cases inactivity. These issues have caused strains amongst member nations, however if the USA leaves it will only further these problems.
Right now the only real 'imperialistic' Atlantis nation has been Romania. Sweden, despite many claims along with their own at times has never really been imperialistic. The whole Polish-German situation wasn't caused by Sweden, but Poland and Germany. The fact that Sweden gave the opportunity to allow Germany and Poland the right to exist is an act of true kindness.
Thus, I don't see the reason why the US must leave Atlantis in any form. It only wounds the bloc as a whole and creates greater tension between fellow members.
Our MPP with UK had already ran out well in advance of(in eRep time) this war, if we broke of from Atlantis (I'm for an intelligent withdrawal from Atlantis), there will still be countries that will ally themselves with us, and as far as the language barrier, this isn't IRL, it's the internet, most people can communicate in English.
Dish fought against us in Mexico, so if you want to get into who broke what, and everyone seems to be attributing Dish to UK saying that he still represents him even though it's a small portion of his governemnt, Then it can be said that the UK broke Article VI section 2 of the Atlantis treaty. So in that case, the UK owes Atlantis and us 100 gold.
If the UK wants to put trading sanctions on us...that's kind of funny.
As far as IRL hate goes, I'm pretty sure there's many more people with more deep-seeded historical anger/ire directed at the UKers. The US have just been douchbags internationally for the last 50 years, they've got quite a head start on the US.
Leave from Atlantis!
Desertfalcon,I support you,If you leave from Atlantis 😃
Burakkocamis,
I'm sure you are not the only Turkey citizen who would like to see that. But remember that USA fought strong to eLiberate Israel from your country so I don't see this really beneficial that cause! 😛
I'm also sure there are Iranians who would love to see USA leave Atlantis.
Gates Schellinger,
Like I sai😛 "Write a somewhat complex article in English in the eItalian or eIndonesian media - do you believe that more than 2/3-3/4 of the readers understand it?"
Internet doesn't automatically teach out English and using google translate to understand things is a great way to actually misunderstand things.
Bottom line: if Atlantis insists on enforcing this fine against the US after letting Romania and Spain slide, we're out of Atlantis.
I didn't say that everyone could Misho, judging by how many Indonesians and Italians visit our US IRC and speak english and converse in it, I'd say enough do. My comment about it being the internet is that Internet numbers don't reflect IRL numbers. People choose to post newspaper articles in the native language in their home country because they can, it's their country, and if nothing else it adds flavor to the game. Just because they post the article in that language doesn't mean they can't communicate in English.
I think that the Us would make a mistake if it would leave the alliance. No country can stand alone. Adn who would rather be allied with the US over Spain, Sweden and Romania, or Indo, Iran and Italy?
I'm surprised that the Americans have a whole different attitude than what we get to see in RL.The military aspect of the game is apparently not so higly valued in the eUS.
It will be interesting to see the result of this internal debate in the US.
Very nice article Misho, as always.
question: is your newspaper satire? I ask this since it has the same name as a fake news website.
here here!
I still motion that the USA stays in ATLANTIS. the UK has been our longest lasting friend, and these troubles are being brought on by a combination of my own actions and Dish's over hype response. I believe that we'll still be able to fix relations, it will only take a small bit of work and some reform in the treaty.
Desert Falcon 4 President... He must win, even if it means getting the dead to vote. lol
i lold
I think this article is great, but I do have to side with Desertfalcon on this one. New alliances need to be forged, some members of Atlantis we should definately stay and others we should get rid of.
"Write a somewhat complex article in English in the eItalian or eIndonesian media - do you believe that more than 2/3-3/4 of the readers understand it?"
Gwador, Mae govannen 😃
I would leave eUSA if we left the alantis to live in eSweden. Alantis is apart of eUSA now we almost the same thing. Instead of leaving lets just change the war rule 12 hours in advance and tell them next time. SA