On Justice and Utility, or: Why all Citizens should receive Supplies
![Netherlands](http://www.erepublik.net/images/flags_png/S/Netherlands.png)
Broersje
![](http://i44.tinypic.com/2r1zmec.jpg)
Dear citizens of the eNetherlands,
This is a reaction to Konrad Neumann's article on supplying private Military Units.
I'd like to see a system whereby all citizens of the eNetherlands can request supplies from the government. I will argue that it is not only just, but also useful for the state to supply all citizens.
First of all, my push for general supplies should be seen in the context of the debate about abolishing the generally available state subsidies. If these programmes are to be ended, something equally available should replace them. While state MU's are open to all, I think forcing people to lead their lives in a certain way is a breach of the principle of general availability of state support paid for by general taxes.
![](http://i45.tinypic.com/21an1xk.jpg)
Supplying every citizen is the summum of fairness, as every citizen pays taxes. Excluding people because they choose to operate in a Dutch private MU (which, by the way, can only fight for the Netherlands and is thus as vital a part of our military power as any other MU), is discrimination and theft. Our citizens get only MPP's in return for high taxes, which, in my opinion, is not nearly enough.
I think you misrepresent the nature of MU's. MU's are nothing more than a handy way to organize soldiers. The only thing that MU leaders can do is to set orders and make sure people fight in useful battles. There is no mention of a commune system on the eRepublik wiki, nor is there any in-game possibility to create such a commune. Therefore, 'MU' does not equal 'commune'. This fact is reflected in practice, as some MU's have a commune system, and others don't.
As far as I know, of all eight MU's in the eNetherlands, only one still has a commune system (Alpha Unit). In addition, your argument that someone who gets supplies out of a commune has no need of state assistance because they already get supplies is invalid. Everyone has a job, for which they get paid. Some get money, others get goods. A commune system is nothing else than an employer paying his employees in goods. Technically, the fact that the employer employs only people who are members of a specific MU should be considered an irrelevant coincidence. Denying supplies to people because they get their wage paid in goods is an injustice. Everybody who gets supplies in the current system has a paid job, too, and they are eligible for supplies because they get money for their labour, instead of goods. And what do they do with the money? There really is no other sane way to spend it but to buy as many food and weapons as possible.
Now you have two groups of people who have a job and are members of a MU that fights for the Netherlands, but one group gets supplies and the other doesn't. Where is the justice in that? This I call discrimination.
You make a point of the unfairness to state MU members of giving supplies to people in other MU's. I have shown that (1) unfairness is out of the question because everyone pays taxes, and (2) people in private MU's are in the exact same circumstances as those in state MU's, except, of course, for the difference in MU membership.
![](http://i45.tinypic.com/21an1xk.jpg)
The overriding point I want to make, however, is one of general benefit to the state and people of the eNetherlands. By making supplies generally available, all citizens can fight more, grow stronger, and be more capable defenders of their homeland. All this can be funded from the taxes paid by all citizens. All citizens pay, all citizens profit.
Kind regards and wishing you the best,
![](http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9551/broersje.png)
![](http://i45.tinypic.com/21an1xk.jpg)
Comments
Voted, and totally agree!
Well broersje, you problem is that you keep seeing this as an alternative to the subsidies. Why would it be that way? As Konrad said everyone is free to get these supplies as long as they wish. All people have to do is join the state MU's. This game is all about fighting and supplies these days, and that's when private MU
's came into place. They didn't agree with the amount or way of supplies they got from the government, and started for themselves. They bought some companies and started
to commune. Now you want to say that all those people being in the army should receive less supplies then those working in a private commune? If that is what you want to say then why not abandon the military at all? And if you want to say that there are private MU's that don't offer supplies, well those MU's just didn't understood this game, and that's their problem.
voted, many countries in the world give out funds to non-state MU's under certain conditions (activity, membership numbers, min. damage, following state orders)
A non-state MU isn't obliged to take the subsidy if they don't want/can't make the conditions.
Why should people who have access to private supplies get government supplies? Why should we reward private MU's at the expense of state MU's? You keep saying supplies to all eNLers, the gov welcomes all and discriminate no one.
Under broersje's system, why have the state in the first place. The state's biggest function is the military and with his system, why have the state at all? eNL to become a confederation of different fragmented MU's? Is that the eNL you want?
@ Luuklag and Konra😛 did you read the article at all? A commune is not a free supply system, it means working for goods instead of money. No different being inside an MU or not.
People in my unit are there for principle, coaching and fun, not for free supplies. We do get less than the State MU members atm, but we do more dmg than the average soldier in the State Mu's.
This private MU paranoia is almost scary. Why not take advantage of motivated fighters, I would say.
broersje for president!
Huray for Alpha unit!
@ZM Why do you want to give people a free ride? If people do not work for their supplies, they should not get any. The point of the MU to work in a commune to get supplies and DO's. If people do not work, why should the state pay for lazy people in private MU's. The reason why the state does this is that it build the state army in which private MU's are not.
Talking about fairness, why should us taxpayers pay for lazy people who only wants free supplies and refuse to work for their own?
Also, no one address the issue of why should people who already have access to their own private supplies, entitled to state supplies? Not one person who supports supplies for all address this issue? If there are special battles, like in the past, the state will give out weapons to all but this is and should not be the norm. The state should not allow free riding and no one address this issue.
ZM is the second commander of Alpha Unit. She has a lot of supplies from her MU, why should she get more gov supplies when she ask for it. Why should I, a member of FSK who gets 10+ q6 tanks a day get gov supplies? Do we need it? No! But with their system, all peoples in MU which gets generous supplies will get even more (enough for daily DO's). This does not make sense and will hurt the national army. Supplies for all is not good for the country and is not fair.
The current state supplies are also for lazy people in government controlled MUs. So apparently lazy people already can get a free ride, just by joining a state MU.
What do you mean by people who have access to their own private supplies?
Is that a: the elite who is self-sufficient, b: players working in a commune and get supplies from that, c: players with friends that help them??
For fairness all of these should be treated equally. You cannot check a and c, and case b means no NLG income...
As I have tried to explain before....
... the MoD is responsible for the army. Congress have agreed to give 50% of the government budget for MoD. This money is invested in the army by supplies.
If you want supplies for all citizens, make a government program, and put it in the law.
Ah, you're saying: "Remove all supplies, replace with a commune system".
I guess the problem is that the state cannot employ 100 people in their communes. So that would mean some people cannot share the benefits...
@djirtsdew Difference is state MU is the army. All can join the army, why fund private MU's. This is as much of an aid as it is. In this game, no one really needs aid for most can survive on their own anyways. As to A and B, they should not get state supplies if they are not in state MU. Hard to know about C since their is no way to prove or disprove it, but ideally they should get nothing as well unless they are in the state MU.
@ArtemIvanov: The distribution of those supplies is what is being discussed. There is no obvious reason why the MoD gives only supplies to the members of state MUs. Different approaches would be to supply pre-announced battles. Any Dutch citizen fighting there and showing up on IRC gets weapons. Or even foreigners if we're liberating NL...
A newbie question on the debate: if goods, gold or NLG is transferred ("donated") between users, does the state collect any taxes?
>general availability of state support
Not true. There is a level requirement. Much like a membership requirement, only more strict because you can not change level.
>only one still has a commune system
eNL Elite also has an optional commune system.
>Denying supplies to people because they get their wage paid in goods is an injustice.
It is not at all the main reason to deny them supplies. And as you like to point out things about taxes, commune jobs have a very low wage and therefor bring no tax to the market, as the employer also sells no goods. That means no VAT and very little Income Tax.
@Zeeuwsmeisje
>but we do more dmg than the average soldier in the State Mu's.
Yes, then again I do more damage than you. Is damage suddenly a valid criteria for receiving benefits?
>This private MU paranoia is almost scary.
There is no paranoia at all, please stop with suggestive comments. PVV much?
@Yfke
No, there is no tax on donations.
WTF? Garmr, why can't you ever take part in a discussion without making nasty personal comments and insinuations?
@Garmr:>but we do more dmg than the average soldier in the State Mu's. Yes, then again I do more damage than you. Is damage suddenly a valid criteria for receiving benefits?
If we want to win battles then yes, yes it is. I agree that it is generally a bad idea to fund something that you cannot control. But from a pragmatic point of view funding both official and private MUs increases our chances of liberating another province.
@Dimi: The difference is, we acknowledge that in special battles like liberation etc, the gov can volunteer to give out extra supplies to who they want to give it. It is not a law that forces the gov to give free supplies to people who do not needed as a norm, even when there are no special battles like liberation.
@FrankieVB
You know that is a nasty personal comment as well, right?
@Konra😛 just too long read when reading in your second second you are still stuck in your own ideas. Please read before answering, you are misguided on most facts.
@all so heavily against it: maybe it's time we start fighting together instead of each other.
@Konra😛 I know, and I'm not saying it should be a norm nor law. It's just... regions come and go. The only way we can ever hold one or multiple regions is when we invest in our citizens. Only then can we expect growth.
Personally I agree that eNL would be strongest if we all follow MoD orders in official state MUs since that allows for the best possible communication and organisation. But the reality isnt ideal. And we'll have to adapt if we want to survive.
Would be hilarious if Konrad and Garmr gets Supplies from our GOV while they are/where in a private MU theirselves haha
Nah, that would be silly... ..or would it?
@konrad (comment#1) because the state is funded by taxes, paid for by everyone. Therefore it isn't more then fair and logical to spread the bounty based on damage, rather then just on affililation, which is now the case.
@dream8, no, as long as they do more damage than joe the plumber I don't care which MU he's in, or even what nationality (s)he is. The stronger, the bigger the weapons we should be able to give. This is seperate from 'stimilus' programs for newer players, which are for the growth of individual players, and the growth of the community.
Was more in the sense of if they are against private MU funding but they do fund themselves it would be a bit hypocritical.
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