Reaffirming Ireland's place as a Champion of Small Nations?
Seanan
My previous article is solely to challenge Boru's sense of self importance, not those with a valid concern. It was for my piece of mind to highlight his motivation not being too dissimilar to Dail members who vote down proposals they agree with (i.e. a good proposal) because of some technicality on how it was presented. Or more honestly, hes been counted as a member of the ordinary public... oooooooooo must burn him up
If you wish to read the details of the Irish-South Korea Agreement, my Co-Minister of Defence An Sluagh has released an article.
Instead, I want to advocate a quick and calm consensus building. Polarizing opinion at this stage would simply be a step in fragmenting the community in circumstances which aren't particularly disagreeable to anyone and aren't presumed to be long lasting.
Plenty of valid concerns have stemmed from the lack of detail regarding the Agreement in the media, and this means ordinary citizens will have not up til recently been able to make an informed judgement; Rental agreements take the cooperation of the community hence there must be strong reasons to believe or evidence to show the cooperation is there. Specifically the lack of detail regarding rental payment raises the issue whether the plan will be financially worthwhile for the resources to enact and maintain. Further lack of clarity of which regions to be rented under the Agreement raises the issue if Ireland's economy and strategic maneuverability will be threatened. Lastly, lack of information on South Korea available to the Irish community raises the issue if the country is a politically stable / a reliable partner / security risk.
I'm not actually going to answer them as such. The ins and outs of the Agreement is out there for public consumption.
The decision to act was more an action of solidarity with a smaller nation, which has been brutally oppressed for two years, rather than any mutually beneficial (disclaimer: some would argue otherwise) pact we shared with the United States. The circumstances are different, and reasons behind this are more about Ireland taking a direct role in Aurora and Sirius campaigns to free conquered allies.
The priority is securing South Korea a Congress, with the rental agreement being a secondary objective. Providing South Korea is able to take an Irish region before losing their original regions to Taiwan, South Korea will gain a Congress. Whether or not, Ireland then chooses to allow South Korea a prolonged stay is still debatable. Mechanically, due to Determination build up, such a deal is unlikely to last more than 3 months given South Korea's population - certainly a wider cooperation within the Dail and Military Units would be necessary to reset the Determination build up.
Again mechanically, there is a life expectancy on any rental agreement. There is no guarantee of a lasting Agreement, but we can at the very least provide South Korea a region to run candidates for the first time in two years.
However, "mechanically" and "metagame" were two words I'd advised my Co-Minister to avoid when expressing support for the initiative. If I still have the attention of those who instinctively disagree with renting of Irish regions, I dare them to challenge their prescriptive in this instance - we are the masters of this situation.
Its came up once in the Dail, the different "game styles" players take on. Most common clashes are that of the Metagame vs Roleplaying, which plays out like this:
Metagamer "This is a logical plan/action"
Roleplayer "This plan/action is against my politico-ideological identify"
Metagamer "Here is an evaluation of achievability of this plan/action"
Roleplayer "This plan/action does not properly consider my interests"
Everyone gets upset.
That debate never goes anywhere (and its not particularly fun for anyone), so its good to remove ourselves from the equation for a second to consider the proposal at its basic values.
A small nation in Asia, which is slowly becoming the focus point of the alliance wars, has asked for help gaining a Congress after two years of being denied by their aggressive neighbours. In the field, the small nation is unlikely to amount an attack to liberate more than one region which is insufficient to guarantee a Congress should their aggressive neighbour choose to intervene. This nation has limited resources, hence their capability to perform major operations will also be limited.
Under these circumstances, Ireland should consider what we want to do and what we can do. I'd say my want is to give South Korea a Congress, because helping the underdog is supposedly a core belief this country has. However, what can we do? Realistically, Irish damage alone will not counter Taiwan's attacks on South Korea. Apart from petitioning alliances and attempting diplomatic routes with Taiwan, opening our regions (short or long term) is an option which would be convincingly a solely Irish action.
In terms of the rental amounts offered and the damages we incur, the Agreement is neither particularly damaging nor rewarding in Metagame terms apart from a few 10k IEP per month. The intrinsic reward is far greater if we allow ourselves to be the good guys rather than treat this like a violation and act the victims; small nation denied Congress? Good Guy Ireland got it covered, bro.
Renting or crediting Irish regions is not always a sinister "selling" scheme. We could allow South Korea to take procession of Irish regions just long enough to gain a Congress for free! Eh how about that? Just temporary and we've helped out a small nation get something of great worth to them. Truly we are a nation of worthy of our reputation (?).
This isn't the US looking for bonuses, this is Ireland being extraordinary. Certainly, we are not going to rent/credit our regions to every small nation which has come under hard times... but two years without a Congress fits my definition of extraordinary circumstances.
"A little less offense and a little more courage" should have been the motto when we began our Slovenian Campaign, and it should be applied here. The limited life span of the Agreement means this debate will end. But more importantly, while the Government has acted in the small time available, we can discuss and hold a referendum post getting South Korea here. We will secure their Congress (Dio willing), that is what is most important - what we do after (i.e. the duration of their stay) does not require our immediate attention and can be worked out in the following days.
All due consideration for the community's opinion has to feature, even in this circumstance where the proposal is actually doing something which agrees with many Irish players principles, but performing such a consultation before or after getting South Korea in Ireland is inconsequential to us - expect its very significant to South Korea. Circumstances meant the Irish Government had a limited window to consider, and after a quick survey of the Dail, decided the overall opinion is positive and we can formalize through the proper channels at a later date.
I took issue with Brian Boru's article because it's not saying this is a bad idea, but he wasn't asked and it sets some hombojumbo precedent. To be honest, I'd be more concern with a precedent of slow action to help our allies, and hesitation in actually living up to the notion we are a Champion of small nations.
A little quote for him;
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws" ~ Plato
From the general response, a referendum would have been positive because Ireland helps small nations. In likelihood, someone will run some opinion poll to confirm and we can have a debate about whether Irish government should have said "Yes, come this month" or "No, come next month". Taoiseach Mirek and members of the Dail clearly just had faith the wider Irish community would support a measure to aid a small nation in lieu of an official vote.
In the end, we're either going to help South Korea get a Congress or we're going to crush their two year Congress dreams. Not our problem? My countrymen, we are better than that.
Comments
TL😃R Version; Ireland is extraordinary, the principle of helping small nations is part of our culture, and Boru's bureaucracy can shove it. The spirit of Irish people will live out!
Bureaucracy and constitutions had nothing to do with it. The constitution argument is one *you* pulled out of your ass, I made not a single mention of it in my article.
Everyone in the country deserves to know if we're going to be renting regions well ahead of time, because we have to fight to enforce that against a multitude of enemies who'd like to see it ruined (as the failure of the AS proves). Preferably, everyone should have a direct say in that sort of project, but it's common courtesy not bureaucracy to keep the country informed of the plans of government.
Voted.
HAIL IRELAND
HAIL SOUTH KOREA
HAIL BROTHERHOOD
remember seanan you said that mrconway would never be let near the controls of the irish army. you hypocrite now he is deputy minister of defense. that was the real reason i left because your are the biggest liar in the game . you lie to suit whatver truth you want to propagate. this deal stink because of you and mrconways involvement. pure and simple irish ppl do not want their regions in foreign hands for whatever cause.
and if their aurora priority number 1 and they cant keep enough regions THEY HAVE 1 NOW how will you defend us against their attackers. You just brought their fight to our shores.
I'm An Sluagh born on Nov 25, 2013. Don't think I am MrConway.
You can hide behind a thousand multis.....your damaged brain betrays you every time conway
You guys really are delusional. Every new player who speaks back to the stupidity of you Clerics gets called a multi.
How many multi's got banned in your PP election. About 9. You guys are honestly too funny.
Yes...multis got banned...and in my article i proved it they were mufc's multis.
Remember mufc....founder of cromega..now called Labour army?
You tried to frame Clerics for crimes you OG Orcs do for years here.
But you failed...again...conway...
Seanan lies....he and sweet..same (censored), different package
your mrconway nogin told me i invited mrconway then called bradleykneesopen i went back and last player i invited was you sir so your mrconway end of story.
boated
It's a nice thing to do for a country that has suffered for a long time.
Agree...from likes of you Bhane.
Forging referendums and illegally selling irish regions only to give majoprity of rent money to players who took irish cz hours before applaying for that training golds.
Openly supporting thieves and as CP promoting thieves and traitors.
Did you return money you stole from irish orgs with Sweet and Nogin?
And you have nerves accusing Krakken for attempting theft?
Coz he as legit MoF tried to get access to irish orgs before the get plundered?
And finding out that you 3 stole it time ago?
Return irish money Bhane...and provide a screenshot or be a thief as those you so passionately support...
Repeating your lies will never make them true.
I can't provide a screenshot of state money I have never had. I have not ever had access to gov't money, let alone had any in my account. The clerics have control of a state org as we speak. That is a privilege that I have never been afforded. If you are looking for gov't moneys, I'm the last place to look bud. Me and Nog are just advice to Apple in a thread to double check accounting. Neither of us has access, Apple is in charge of the orgs.
"And you have nerves accusing Krakken for attempting theft?"
I see you're rewriting history... again. I'm the one who said that I believe Krakken had nothing to do with the theft. I believe from the start that he was duped by daniel, and was the intended scapegoat for the millions that daniel thought he was going to get away with (a plot thwarted by Apple).
But I suppose we can just add that to your ginormous pile of lies about me. I'll keep my eyes open for an apology/retraction of all the cleric's false accusations, but Im not holding my breath.
Repeating replies to a troll will never make him leave
Then why your friend Sweet says you Nogin and Appleman transfered money on your accounts?
And while you are here can you explain how daniel could plot to steal the money when you and the rest of fantastic trio transfered all of money before daniel took position...that is what your friend Sweet is claiming
"Metagame vs Roleplaying"....yeah Sweet.
You belong to neither.....you are a thief...for all this years all you proved is how incompetent you are.
As MoF you claimed to be the best of all by knowing some super secret in making money on mm.
You also claimed if you go back to MoF position, i drove you out, you will use it again to make a piles of golds.
You were CP for two months....that is better then MoF....and you did shit.
Just like when being MoF you just collected taxes and abused your position to fund yourself and your friends + ICA.
You alone, all together, stole much more then sawc.
Useless and greedy thief...
As CP for two months you had zero..ZERO won battles against british invaders.
And when brits felt sorry coz of your constant bending over and gave you back 4 irish regions.....YOU TOOK 3!
What kind of incompetent and uselles creature you have to be to take 3 out of 4!
A two clicker would do a better job then you Sweet!
And you still have a nerve to talk about competence or....anything?
And what was your last accomplishment?
Openly plundering irish orgs with your friend thieves Bhane and Nogin.
Yeah...you protected irish money from one of your multis....
Krakken is few hours he was legit MoF did more for transparency and showed more profesionalism then you Sweet did in years.
Like i said....You Sweet are incompetent and uselles parasite of ireland.
And that is what ireland makes so special.....full of parasites...
Yeah... author name reads Seanan, not Sweet Drinker. Wrong guy bud.
And i speak to sweet...problem?
But you were MoD during SWeet's terms so 3out of 4 applies to you dear seanan.
Just like he was useless CP you are even more useless as MoD.
Only that spam get deletes.
But as you bring it up, me and your boy ReleaseTheKrakken should make a club. Me losing regions as MoD, him losing 40k IEP as MoF. Match made in heaven.
very funny seanan so now the amount is 40k appleman lied to me so why should we trust anything he says.
what 40k Seanan?
Krakken as MoFwithin hours published detailed report of financial situation and what was. or was not, in orgs.
Appleman just like sweet never puiblished detailed report....coz he cant.
That would prove he is a thief just like sweet.
And a word of a thief is a word of a liar
Trio fantasticus plunder openly entire irish money and transfer on their accounts and you here speaks about losing?
Krakken as the only competent MoF ireland ever had tried to save irish money from thieves but had no time.
he couldn't retake regions without our consent back then...at least, not long term. MUFC wasted the cash and we had the entire firepower of TWO at our disposal. As MoD, and later CP, at the time I know that Ireland was pretty fecked. Sweet made the best decision possible at the time AND rebuilt the treasury.
Winning battles was always going to be next to impossible for Ireland at that time without burning loads on supplies. And we had more guns and more money and more allies. Sweet actually nearly won a battle during his term. Neatly, it was something like 85-78 to the UK.
All in all, I think Sweet was the most successful CP during that period. he was diplomatic to a hostile nation and managed to repair some relations burnt under the rule of MUFC and his muppets.
I'll probably get told that I am saying this because sweet is my puppet or something equally dumb. All I have to say is w/e. If thats the only argument you have, then you auto lose.
Read again Behy...
Your government gave back 4 regions to ireland....and Sweet excuse for not taking 4th was coz of evil spaniards planning to attack ireland.
And that is a fact Behy...
That was Sweet's official explanation..
The most retarded and lame lie i ever heard to justfy incompetence.
But before that agreement your goverment was giving back 4 regions SWeet not only did not try to liberate occupied regions he even tried to discourage anyone who was fighting for a freedom against british spawns of SATAN!
Sweet as CP decided irish nation must bendover before brits...something true irish would never do..and true irish like Clerics never did.
You british insulted ireland by soiling irish lands with your presence.
And fact that british is defending cowardness and treason of irish CP speaks for itself.
I belive you when you say Sweet was a greatest CP for british...
Actually Boh, I just barely lost the first serious RW attempt during my term. poked your MoD and told him I'd launch a successful one in 24hrs.
Then we took Louth by force.
Then Woldy and I signed a settlement.
That was how eIreland got back on the map after the CUA debacle.
UK's participation in the USA gangbang was what made this possible for us.
Wow, Kurgy's gone so crazy he can't even tell who he's talking to anymore
ORC VICTORY!
\o/
Actually you do are all alike..but i simply recognised you in this article so i addressed it to you.
Your useless and incompetent brain again cant figure some simple things up...
nice try VK. your comment above clearly illustrates you don't even know what you're on about anymore. No amount of bs you shovel at it is gonna change that.
orc victory
\o/
Agreed completely.
It's nice, it's a touchy feely good thing to do.
I still do not support it. I have nothing against eSK, and I have nothing for them. My objections are solely with the eIrish government. Had it been done properly, I would support it.
As for the role playing aspect, go rent someone else's damned house out, I'm tired of this crap 😛
And don't get me started on the whole shield thing, lol
Still a technicality, Paddy. The proposal came from SK late on the 20th. You'd be denying South Korea a Dail because the Irish Government did not have enough time to hold a referendum (under 2 days).
I personally do not feel comfortable crushing two years worth of hopes for a Dail over that, hence the last ditch effort to make it a success. You clearly have a different view, but you'll also miss the glory and that is the true shame.
Over and out.
Seanan, you have my respect. You don't have my agreement on the rush. Beer's on me tonight.
o7
An article would have taken 2 minutes to write, and a day's worth of consideration in the public media to insure there wasn't hard resistance to the plan would have sufficed as a substitute.
We didn't even get the courtesy of a proper article until long after the plan was in motion.
they should have approached us sooner, oh wait...we were what 2nd/3rd choice... after 2 years what's another month if you do things right, the big rush achieved nothing.
Seanan is the flake in Ireland's 99 ice cream.
^This comment is why we need more rl Irish around here.