Updated: First days of Congress
Mr Woldy
Hello all!
I have taken it upon myself to offer some brief updates on what has gone on in Congress over the past few days, as there has been a few discussions and proposals already launched.
Firstly, dealing with the speaker. According to the guidelines, the outgoing speaker or the country president should arrange the candidates for speaker whilst the Congress election is happening, so that on the 26th voting may start immediately. For whatever reason this wasn’t followed this month, so after the election I added the few congressmen not on my friends list as a friend, and when the last one accepted I set up to discussion groups to get the speaker sorted ASAP. After a day of allowing people to candidate themselves, the voting has started and all congressmen have been sent details on how to vote.
Rob the Bruce was the only candidate, but as a matter of formality a vote has been ran offering Congressmen a choice between Rob or renominations. I am confident Rob will be elected speaker and he will likely set up new messaging threads and will organise communication with cabinet as he sees fit.
Update: Rob has won the vote 31 - 2.
Whilst that has been going on three proposals have been opened in the Congress part of the forum (which you can find here). The first proposal is to repeal the speaker act, the second is an immigration bill, and the last is a discussion on moving Congress onto the forums.
So far only a small number of Congressmen have participated, this I put down to there being no speaker and the discussion hasn’t moved ingame yet. The discussion on repealing the speaker act was opened by Dan Moir, and so far the general sentiment seems to be more in favour of reform than it does repeal. Personally I am pro reform and after this month I specifically want to rethink how candidates for speaker are selected and voted open, to allow us to hit the ground running each month and not be dependent on outgoing speakers or government members who may not fulfill the ‘preparing for next month role’, which has been the shortcoming of the current act. I also believe that a MoLA is not good for Congress - I believe that Congress need a representative in Cabinet (in the form of a speaker) and not the other way round (ie: a CP appointed person lording over Congress).
The immigration bill named the Citizenship Act has been proposed by Tiger Style, and is addressing a pretty hot topic in the eUK, with the whole PTO business going on. Discussion on it has been somewhat limited so far, but my two cents is that in its current form the bill could do with some alterations. Mainly on the size and selection of the committee, and how people are penalised if they break the rules. As Congress under the new voting system are held to account by their PP’s, I feel that it would be best to have PP’s agree to some form of punishment, or to involve them directly in the process. I hope this bill gets more attention once the speaker is elected.
The final proposal also by Dan Moir is to relocate Congress discussion back onto the forums. So far, most people who have commented are in favour of this move, though I suspect that may be because congressmen not on the forums haven’t seen it yet. If you peruse the thread, you will see that I am opposed to moving Congress discussion onto the forums. There are two main reasons for this; firstly is simply that not everyone uses the forums. It may be a good public record and an efficient way to discuss issues - but only for forum users. I am hoping we can find an acceptable alternative in using messaging threads for general Q & A and holding key debates on articles in the comments, as had been done before and as is being done successfully in various other eCountries. That way, an ingame record exists that everyone can access easily (especially if a wiki page is updated archiving the debates). My second reason for opposing the move is that, we as Congress need to introduce some activity checks and standards on ourselves, and if part of those checks become an expectation to use the forums then it will unfairly penalise people who do not use the forums, and as such will create an elitist Congress.
I have a feeling that this will be a contentious issue this month. The forums do make discussion easier, I just think they lessen the egalitarian ethos which Congress has started to embody by moving ingame. All we need to do is make sure that our private message threads are made public every week and that we hold key debates in the public eye anyway, which I believe has the same benefits as using forums. To try and gauge public opinion on this I have set up a poll, which I have sent to all Congressmen and members of my own party, but which I invite the public at large to fill in.
The poll is here: http://tinyurl.com/CongressOpinions
You would be helping out me and others discussing this topic by filling it in, so if you are an eUK citizen feel free to do so!
I hope to make one or two proposals of my own this month, both aimed to improve accountability and activity amongst congress. In the meantime you’re gonna have to find your fun playing games or going outside, ew!
Thanks for Reading.
Mr Woldy.
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Comments
Ñax
So congress is just doing what they always do for the first few weeks. Argue about where to discuss things and try to set up rules (that can't be enforced) to govern how people use their passes?
Not too much argument so far, at least in my pm thread. Big change from my last term.
I should maybe have said 'discuss' rather then argue...
It was the same 2 months ago. Same discussions, same outcome..... Nothing.
Then go inactive for 3 weeks.
A public who expect congress to fail promote a nihilistic culture which encourages congress to fail. Standards need to change...
Standards of those running need to change. A belly full of fire is what is needed. Congress acting as one, rather than a bunch of people trying to further their own party or groups agendas is needed.
Until we see that day, Mongress will remain the same.
If something always happens then people expect it to continue.
Standards may need to change but the problem is a symptom of the parties and how they elect their PPs rather than the collection of usual derps that gets elected to congress
That's up to the PP's Wayne...
It's up to us all Woldy, party members vote in PP's...
That's the point I was making!
Mongress
I'm not a fan of twix. I'm going for a beer.
As MoLA I must offer this response to your article Woldy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcrPoIyTf-c
What the issue of "yay, I was elected in eRep to congress, now where is my office? WTF?" boils down to a lot I think is that whole thing about moderated discussions etc. especially where not explicitly only for adults, meaning it isn't just a local thing. Of course, it could be argued that a game which sort of enables fascist political systems (in game, among others) it ought to be possible for governments to throw in jail and stuff, and arguably such in game would be preferable since if anyone gets a ban on some private (external) forum, none of the users there may be even aware of it. On the other hand, there is the issue of that being already plenty on the internetz. E.g. MP server where someone gets banned for cheating even tho not cheating, and similarly. Tho myself, I wouldn't mind exploring the issue of community driven, respectivly community elected "government driven, maintenance of "order" and/or "public peace" (as in opposition to some moderators department where probably no one any degree such as in pedagogics or law has). Then again, if we are talking about one local e-environment in which minors spent plenty of time at, then it would be arguably reasonable to teach basic netiquette and that understandably centralistically if it is actually clear what netiquette is on about. And with such not being completely in the hands of (particularly) eRep labs, it would arguably give them less worries about things and not need a tight grip on every form of written expression, including that if it is a bit more clear what is out of bounds that there arguably will be less complaints, tickets and such.
In any case, making an extended congress feed which is viewable publically, sort of what many states have a TV channel for, shouldn't be too diffult in my opinion.
lolwut, congress on a TV channel?
http://www.c-span.org/
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Home.aspx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament
...
the messaging and posting system on the forum is HORRIBLE! It took me 6 attempts to read the secret lettering plus 2 attempts to hear them prior to posting simple Hi message.
Goes away after 5 posts, they had spam trouble at one point apparently.
The forum Captcha disappears after you've made five (?) posts.
The forum seems the logical place for congress discussions - generally easier to follow and participate in that an in-game PM thread, and automatically recorded for other citizens to check/read etc (without someone having to go to the hassle of copying the PM thread to publish elsewhere).
Personally I don't see the issue with requiring anyone elected to Congress to sign up for the forum. And if it's possible to make the Congress section of the forum available to read without being registered, any citizen can view it (although, obviously, and sensitive discussions would have to take place behind closed doors).
At the moment Congress is distant and isolated from the general population. Although some people have concerns about moving it onto the forum, doing so would instantly make it more accessible to anyone who's interested in what's going on.
5 posts removes the captcha from all posting. This was necessary to deal with the massive amount of spam we had unfortunately.
This term we have 37 congress users signed up on the forum, 36 of which were already signed up beforehand. The public discussion threads are working quite well in my eyes and I'd definitely like to see this trend continue.
Saying that "using the forum means only forum users see the message" is redundant. "Only people that check their messages read the messages", "only people that read the articles see the messages". You say we don't want an elitist congress but I don't think it is elitist at all, it's simply common sense to use a tool to make up for erepubliks internal shortcomings. An elitist congress is electing the same people over and over, an effective congress is one full of people who are willing to take an extra 2 minutes so they can do a half decent job. If you can't be bothered to get involved, why run? At least this makes it really obvious who just runs for a medal and who deserves repeat terms
I can see what you're getting with people possibly not read Congress messages, but to the majority of people there is an on-site and off-site divide and people are evidently more comfortable communicating ingame then they are going onto the forum.
If using the forum became part of the expected criteria of Congress, then I think it will become elitist because we will go back to being highly reluctant to run non forum users for anything, a la 2009. Non forum users are the majority of players despite years of efforts to try and get them registered; we should start catering for them rather than trivialising whatever reasons they may have for not wanting to use forums in the first place.
Also, public discussion isn't as public as holding discussions on ingame articles via the comments, which is the most transparent and open way to hold debates available to us.
There's two ways about it: Only run forum players or run those who would be willing to use the forum for the duration of their term, encouraging them to do so. The second one is more effort but opens up congress to anybody willing to give a damn (the only people that should be elected in my opinion) and uses the best method of communication available.
Public congress discussion on the forums prevents it from being hijacked by people who reply to top comment to be visible, people spamming article links, derailing from non-congress members. If congress can get a speaker or something sorted out, I can give them moderating powers to keep even congress on track. If the electorate and elected put in this tiny bit of effort we get a better congress, both in openness and communication efficiency.
But the idea that only people on the forums give a damn is hot air. The fact of the matter is we should compromise on efficiency if it produces a fairer and more open system. Otherwise what's the point to congress? For whatever reason a lot of players won't use the forums, we should not exclude them for that.
P.S. Rob the Bruce is speaker o/
It's pretty easy for the speaker to PM people directing them to the forum threads. Then they will have their gorram in-game alert to stop them missing anything.
Congress discussion in PM's is terrible. It is split in 2 halves so you can only see what half of congress thinks and it's a constant message which has to cover all topics, so is easily derailed. There's no record kept of discussions and no public accountability. I can't understand how anyone thinks it's an acceptable system.
Also, Woldy. You're implying at the start of the article that your updating people on what has gone on in congress. It looks like an impartial article but it's heavily biased towards the way you want things to go. You don't go into any detail about the reasons for moving discussion as I've highlighted (again) above.
No one is saying debates have to happen in messages.
All opinions in the article are presented as being my personal opinions, the updates are what has gone on with the speaker and what is being discussed.
[removed]
if you dont want to use the forum dont be on congress, simple.
That opinion is wrong on so many levels and opens you up to the old charge of TUPist elitism.
Forums are NOT part of the game mechanics, PMs and articles are, and you cannot make people register on the forums, just to get into congress.
Same goes for IRC; again, it is NOT part of the game mechanics. the game could work quite well without both.
the game admins have brought in in-game chat-rooms, albeit for Military units at the moment, but they may have plans to open it up to Party chat-rooms and Country chat-rooms, even a Congress chat-room is possible. That would make IRC and the external forums redundant, if they ever get around to it.
They could also add extra feeds, I've asked for a Country feed for some time now for electioneering purposes. I do not see why posts have to be limited to MUs, Parties & Friends.
For the time being, I am happy with the PM system & links to forums can be made for in-depth slow decision-making and polls.
Except that the old charge of TUPist elitism was bullshit in this case. There's nothing elitist, undemocratic or exclusive about using a forum that's free and open to all. Especially if the speaker was set as the sole moderator for the month.
Forums may not be part of the game mechanics, but talking is a part of the game and the forums are an effective, accountable place for congress to talk. Sure you can't mechanically force congress to use forums but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be the primary place to talk or that PP's shouldn't prefer candidates who will communicate on them.
nothing can be discussed in the MU/political chat as any bodsy can join at any time and spy on you.
anyone can respond to articles, there is no privacy.
with a forum you have privacy from your enemies, you have a lasting record of what was said so new players can catch up on whats happened in the past.
forums are just so much more efficient and the pros outweigh any cons
you obviously didn't read what i wrote - I said they could ADD a congress chat or feed, this would OBVIOUSLY be restricted to those that had the Congress tag on their profile, so, NO, no-one could spy
GO BACK & READ before you respond again