[ILP PP] Telling it like it is
Winston Hope Smith
Comrades & Colleagues
(bear with me this is a long one)
I first wish to thank the members of the ILP for returning me as Party President for the month ahead.
As we know this election was marred by a PTO attempt.
At just before day change this morning the result looked like this.
but changed to the following after the check.
That was 12 votes lost on the check. Still leaving 33 people voting from a Party with a membership of 33 (at the time. The actual vote should of been about 20 based on last election and I have no doubt those fine members voted for me.
Do I blame Hank...not really, he was just a pawn used, knowingly or not, by other more nefarious players who I have upset lately. The ILP Leadership Council have a good idea who did it and will store this knowledge away in our collective memory. Will they try again? Maybe. Will they succeed? Maybe we'll see. However the ILP will not be intimated by such trolls.
So let us look at what happened.
I, in my personal capacity, released an article calling for a popular vote on the Mayo Rental Scheme with our Allies eMacedonia. This was something I had asked the CP for already in a message shared with the MoF and other top 5 PPs
What happen next is that instead of addressing what I said my opponents created a series of Strawman arguments and then used these fallacies to attack me , my Party & my MU.
First look at the first line in my article...
"First of this is not an article giving an opinion on whether the deal is a good one or not."
So the debate kicked off with contributors giving reasons why it was rushed etc. Which in accepting could be the case I suggested then retrospective ratification was not the correct approach. Once we got past that point (and I assume my opponents seeing no other options) they resorted to every trick in the book try counter this very reasonable point.
Strawman 1 You are just doing this for votes
Strawman 2 You don't care about our Allies
Strawman 3 Winston won't debate the merits of the agreement
Now if only the fallacies were limited to my article but alas the threat of having a vote was gaining traction so out came the Starwman articles.
Being cool and stuff Here Sweet expanded on Strawman 2 and included eCanada. A simple call for a vote on whether we rent a region had become a full "You want to destroy our friends". Oh we added another Strawman for good measure
Strawman 4 You are not good Socialists
I recommend reading "Being cool and stuff" to see how many Logical Fallacies you can find. Here is a list and a prize of the person finding the most...examples wanted. PM them to me. I'm still counting them.
The next article was by our Old Friend Don, aka MUFC who in a parody of my article went straight in to Strawman 2.
Our erstwhile CP in an admitted spot of Rage Quit issued the "Back me or Sack me" threat. Once it was obvious he was to be backed that article got deleted and Hello Ireland was issued. A nice article which somehow managed to ignore the fact that he had signed away a region of our country without consulting the people on it. It was like it never happened...nothing to see here run along.
Anyway this brings us nicely to Conway's, aka An Sluagh, article State of the Nation [02]
In this article he makes a sterling defence of the Mayo Agreement but then goes off road for a little bit of attacking the call for a referendum and political bashing. Telling us how we have no referendum system in place...which must be news to many of us citizens here for the last one. He makes some whoppers alright but he saved the best till last with this gem
He must of forgot we had a perfectly function system a number of Dáils ago but it was smashed by his Party who ignored the decisions of the then Immigration Committee and passed in a number of known trolls including himself. (ah that's why he forgot he was not here)
Yes his Party breaks the rules, bring in the people they want, then try to rebuild a system once they had who they wanted in.
And they criticise us in the ILP for not re-signing up knowing once a decision, any decision, they did not like was made we would be ignored like last time.
You might remember this time, it was the final stroke that made Bhane leave.
The Irony
Thanks for reading...
Comments
I'm voting and commenting your article, can you please vote and comment mine? Thanks!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-t4l-reclutamiento-tanks4life-t4l--2478397/1/20
Whatever the political views and disagreements, a PTO should never be tolerated. Shame on those who planned this, we know who they are, they simply lack any kind of morality.
You know who they are, but do you know who they aren't?
I just wish eEire would get back to being her lovely self.
When was that? Lol
Lad clearly doesn't know much about our history ingame 😛
I guess he believes we should ally Serbians and hope for their help while being wiped by Italy.
u wot...
An sluagh was democratically brought in. He hided under henry longbottoms or such . His immigration was ok' ed by me dumbo
Don croata, sometimes he is all about helping our allies and sometimes he is just hiding the truth from them. Which mask are you using now?
Im always fo whats good for Ireland, wearing the mask sometimes is effective way to bring the good things here...especially in Ireland
Im not questioning your intentions, what if you are all about being honest, proud, good samaritans with our allies, how can you question winston's request for clarity and discussion?
Simply because it couldnt be leaked out of goverment before it was signed for numerous reasons
And what are those reasons?
so now it is in the public arena why not have the vote?
think i explained the whole thing in my article, go check it..if i dont see endorsement ill start to suspect you dislike my articles.
I love comedy central! Can we arrange the referendum now...you know along the lines we did before...ignore An Sluagh who seems to think we never did referendums before as be both know he, as usual, is talking out of his...
Don't we 😛
we dont need a referendum over this issue, any type of referendum is useless right now...maybe the next mandate, next government is going to organise one, but not this one 🙂
and not that article, i did a srs one too 😛
I'll do a deal with you...I'll read and give a considered view on this new article of yours if you admit that An Sluagh is talking out of his posterior when he says we have no system for referendums. Like MUFC you run a number yourself didn't you?
Not asking you to say you will run one just that Conway is talking rubbish!
I know you know he is and this way you gain credibility 😛
We have had referendums in past over some questions if that's what you ask ,yea...pretty sure Conways knows about that...
I'm all up for the referendum when it's needed.
Good so you agree he is talking out of his ass...I'll pop over have a read now
Draws selective quotes from a wide raging discussion.
Calls them straw men.
There must be a meme for that.
It's called "Keeping the article to a manageable length" something not possible if I included every instance of interest.
However James don't worry I linked everything so you can go back and do some research for yourself.
HEY WHS.
WHY DON'T YOU ADDRESS MY POINTS? DON'T JUST MOCK MY STATEMENTS, HAVE A LOGICAL DEBATE WITH ME.
REGARDS,
CONWAY AKA AN SLUAGH
Ah Conway you see I made a reasonable call for a vote...you and your ilk then went all into rage and attach mode and now you ask why I won't have a logical debate with you?
If you were in a debate it would have to be a logical fallacy debate.
When you address the simple question I ask, "Why are the people not entitled to vote on whether you in Government should give away their, yes THEIR territory" I will debate this.
I won't get into the merits of the deal...yet, because that is not what I ask for. If you won't allow the vote then you are in no position to debate the merits of the deal. It will serve no point.
Anyway run along now
Oh you love pointing the finger, I'd be surprised if you can even point straight as your so crooked.
Would you step back and read Sweets points? If you really cared about our allies you would say "hey, this government made a good decision on my behalf for my ally - good job government".
But no. Instead you care about playing politics and want a referendum on the matter. As I've said in other articles, how is this referendum to be run? There is no system in place and we didn't have the time to waste on setting up an agreed system of referendum. We had a narrow window of opportunity with Macedonia, we couldn't take days having a referendum. Can't you understand that?
We have no problem listening to people's voices, but if people want to abandon this deal all together we will hold a referendum. But people don't want to get rid of this Treaty. Why should this government waste our time running a referendum we already know the answer to?
WHS, simple question here for you. Do you agree with the Treaty of Mayo? Yes or No. Don't mention your golden referendum.
Comment on my article, point out all my whoppers. Let's debate them, go ahead.
Did we have a perfectly functioning system beforehand? No. What were the terms? Who voted for it? How many other parties broke these terms? Every single party. Yet when my party broke the rules and brought somebody you don't like in you throw a hissy fit. That's fact, don't deny it.
Bhane left over a number of reasons, if he left over the simple fact OJ was let in, please call him a Prima Donna as well. I reckon you won't, hypocrisy.
Now you also play victim, stop playing some victim. Had my party agreed to the terms of the new Immigration Policy? Yes. Have we broken it? No. Stop trying to blame us for your own decisions - if you were respectable you would accept the democratically supported Immigration Policy, respect it, play by it, obey it. Then if my party broke it or any other party did - point them out.
Show them the broken rules. Please don't just select opponents who break it. Show everyone. But you won't do that? It doesn't suit your style of politics.
Now if you want to start digging into the past and say "these guys did this" and "these guys did that" I will return there with you.
But Colin Fox making deals with PTO'ers, your parties government being responsible for Irelands biggest theft, your parties trusted MoF being a weakling within government and being inactive and misspending A LOT of money and everything else your party never actually did is a really boring topic for you.
Lets confront issues properly WHS. Let's not take things out of context like you do. Be kind.
Speaking of PTOs....
You implying I PTO'd the ILP?
I wouldn't be surprised deary 😉
And I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't an inhouse organised PTO to make ILP look like victims.
Remember how PTO was called on Krakken and I with several others came as an ATO only to be told that same month that Krakken was a legit ILP congressman?
Conway please... You are insulting yourself thinking I could buy such discourse. I'm no ILP fan, you know, but there's no much space for doubt here.
It's Hank, it's not Raven or idk w/e ILPer. And there was double the usual number of votes, I doubt the ILP could be organized enough to pull such a stunt.
Yet you look at me as I'm friends with Hank? Who else is part of this "kunt" group?
PP, OJ, Marcus,Chewie... all dead. Looking into the wrong garden Damhnaic.
http://mibpaste.com/P5HFGV
http://mibpaste.com/6OKzct
lol when was that from?
1st: 2012-09-09
2n😛 2013-01-16
first one i was 16 at the time, i've come a long way since then lol.
also i don't see anything wrong with the second one? my party was PTO'd by Croatians and they were allowed do get away with it by majority of Ireland. I'm past all that. Past is the past.
Simply to show you had ties with Marcus et al.
ohhhh, yes i have ties with them, still do. talk with him, ct, pp, oj, chewie and vales on a daily basis. we have a whatsapp group 🙂
however none of them play anymore. only me and hank remain.
i.imgur.com/6uhCc3E.png
hmmm I it phrased badly and you read it a different way than meant.
I meant more along the lines of just cause I'm friends with him doesn't mean I'm guilty of this PTO.
That's 2 articles out now about the rental agreement.
Should we expect any reference to THE MERITS OF THE AGREEMENT to come along in the 3rd volume?
Winston's major PTO operation: http://prntscr.com/5hvnzx
How'bout we trade you Hank's attempt to PTO a party for Colin's attempt to sell out the entire nation to BCH? (A pretty good bargain I'd say)
You want to pretend that my 'letter to Macedonia' is BS?
That only leaves the problem of your MU (as a group) fighting against national and alliance priorities previously (go-on, call me out). If your article wasn't prelude to insurrection, then it was the exception, hardly the rule.
The only difference between you and your 'strawman'... is the 'man'.
« Two wrongs make a right » fallacy: trying to justify an act by accusing someone else of doing the same. (e.g. how can you judge my actions when X did exactly the same thing?).
It's not because MikeBane did a PTO attempt that we must go around planning PTOs on everyone. If I remember correctly it is you who in a recent article asked for better ethics in eIreland. MikeBane is as much an asshole as those who tried to PTO the ILP, if ot more, but that doesn't excuses the former's actions.
Good call Damh. Don't forget to enter the competition above.
I think a new competition is needed for An Sluagh's comments as he hits a lot of fallacies. One could think he was attempting to beat Sweets record
Sweet one article asking for a vote where the community can decide whether or not to back the deal.
The merits of the deal are not relevant to this call. They can be played out once we get to the debate and vote. How I would vote is irrelevant at this stage to be honest
And one article dealing with the complete over reaction to that article and call
Hard to believe that one simple call for a vote would illicit such an overreaction but this is eIreland where some people think they are above the rest of us and we should just shut up and be governed.
Nope
It's not about a vote Winston, it's about international standing.
Your problem is that you believe you have so many enemies because there are so many bad ppl in the world. There are incidents of badness everywhere (but you pretend that your crew is above such, and call foul whenever it is proven false), but your real problem is that you are still haven't figured out this isn't Nation States. You need to back up your words in this world. But all you've ever had is words, what achievements do you back those words with?
You are truly THE STRAWman.
In this world you just come of as a whiny bitch. Not being bad bro, that's how you come off. Your whining about a decision you admit to agreeing with. Your whining is embarrassing for the nation because you make us look like whiners, this is simple math.
Would that be an ad hominen among others Sweet? Please don't make me reset the computation once again.
The simple point is I believe a decision like giving away one of our regions should be a community decision. You don't. And when it looked like my view was gaining traction you and others over reacted
Apologies for the typos I'm on my phone
HEY WHS.
WHY DON'T YOU ADDRESS MY POINTS? DON'T JUST MOCK MY STATEMENTS, HAVE A LOGICAL DEBATE WITH ME.
REGARDS,
CONWAY AKA AN SLUAGH
I quite explicitly stated that the topic of my article was about ppls' character. Not my fault you embody a subset.
You're still arguing about your right to vote on whether eMacedonia gets a Congress. Who.do.you.think.you.are?
You won't have any allies if that's how you treat them.
I FKN DARE YOU TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS THIS COMMENT