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Excellent article

such a correct moralfag...

If ya gotta be a fgt, at least do it correct bro.

Intelligence such as this is refreshing.

read and vote

For all you know he could vote FOR the rental. I would. I don't think it's insulting to allies if you hold a vote that seems common sense out of principle for a more democratic consensus than the executive's.. But it's not necessary nor does it have game mechanics involved which is why it's a principle that many players just don't respect. I understand that and I simply disagree.

However I am not really worked up because i'm not surprised and the decision i believe to be the correct one even if it wasn't confirmed by a wider representation of the population. I do find it funny. I don't think a single player of the "comrades" has said they'd vote no. You're argument is implying that many of us would vote no and the the vote wouldn't go incredibly one-sided in favor of Macedonia, as I think it would.

It's out of principle as I see it. I call it a more reasonable and sensible democratic consensus. You call it roleplaying and try to change the argument towards us being against helping an ally when we aren't.

Miss-read mate. I said I couldn't believe ppl would actually vote No.
I'm arguing against eIreland "taking back its word" by running a Vote on a promise that is already made. Makes our word worthless regardless of the outcome.
Government needs to be able to make decisions like this without Congress trying to rob our national credibility afterwards.

First of all, your reducing of the issue to one of morality is a political trope. Countries are not persons, they do not operate on the same basis of morality. "The only people who should have the luxury of lying are the leaders of states" etc etc. Countries have to defend the interests of their populations first and foremost. "Selfishness" is inherent to nation-state systems on one level or another, and most countries in eRep have distinct cultures either from RL or the internet.

The Government had the right to act in the way that it did. The national territory had been invaded by a hostile imperial power, that generally allows for broad emergency powers in many respects. Longer term measures however do require some means of consent, and contrary to what some have said in other places, a vote after the fact is perfectly legitimate.

If you don't set up a vote, the Government is drawing a line in the sand and asking the opposition to dare to cross it. Which is more damaging of a possibility to our reputation, a serious rebellion against the Government's authority whereby the claimed enemies of the nation and the political opposition combine to attack the nation's ally, or the loss of a plebiscite on the rental after it has done its supposed job? I have little faith in the loyalty of the opposition to this government as opposed to what they perceive is the country's interests, and neither should the Government itself.

It's not roleplaying to ask people who can fuck up your plan what they think of it before leaving it in place. If they like it, then they've participated in the process and don't feel like they're under anyone's boot. If they don't like it, at least the plan will go away with far less embarrassment than an act of treason would create.

I think eIreland can operate on morality actually. Intelligence and morality are not mutually exclusive.

A vote on 'your given word' after you've given it, is reneging upon your word.
If your nation does this, your nation has no 'word'. Who can depend on you as a nation if that cannot take your word?

I'm super comfortable with a line in the san😛
Scrupulous ppl who believe in honouring their agreements and helping their allies above protocols on my side.
I think your side of the line isn't going to be very well populated 😛

You can't claim morality one week and then abandon it the next. It is possible for a country to operate on morality, but then it has to abandon the idea that it acts intelligently at all times. Not to mention this: How is ignoring the entirety of the populace of your own country in any way moral?

The Macedonians are not fools. It can be explained to them in perfectly reasonable terms that we will do anything to defend our common interests, but that our territory is the property of ALL our players and thus requires a consultation. It's the only thing that does require such a consultation.

It isn't protocol, it's reality: ANY of our players can overturn the government's word on this AT WILL. Hell, even foreigners can overturn this, at which point the most readily available soldiers to stop them will be the very same people you intend to ignore.

Why would I abandon my morality next week?
If next week an ally needs help and I'm in a position to give it to them, why wouldn't I?
There are plenty of times where we'd like to help our allies but we can't. That makes the times when we ARE in a position to help all the more important.
That's why you should assume a helpful stance unless an obstacle interferes with your helping. Do you expect any less of your allies?

And no... "We had to have a vote on whether we are decent people" isn't a valid obstacle.

Jesus Sweet you and your ilk and really trying to ramp this up.

It is a simple matter as Brian said. You made an agreement where you gave away a region and one bonus. The people need to get a say on this.

It has nothing to do with whether we love the eMacedonians or not. Nothing to do with if we are besties with eCanada. Nothing to do helping our allies or not.

Nothing to do with HOW TO VOTE

Everything to do with allowing the vote and letting the people decide whether to give up territory for security.

I understand there was pressure put on for a quick decision. OK it is made but it now needs ratification.

As for your article...it is the usual bulls&*t you write now and then when you try deflect the debate onto ground you feel safer on. This time it is "Helping our allies" The debate is nothing to do with that and you know it. It is about allowing a vote.

"Nothing to do with helping our allies or not"

It has everything to do with helping our allies or not. It has to do with even deserving allies. Allies don't give a toss about your process. Allies don't give a toss about your vote. And allies won't give a toss about you if that is your attitude towards them.
How is it so difficult for you to get your head around the value of our 'word'?
Is your own word worth that little that your unfamiliar with the concept?!

Do you mean your word because it certainly was not my word or eIrelands word. How could it be we were not asked.

eNations have reputations Winston. Remember how long eUK spent redeeming their 'Junior' reputation? A nation's word is worth more than its army.
It wasn't my word either. I wasn't involved in this negotiation. Congress might honestly have known about this one before I did. But it is MY NATION'S word. And I've learned the how expensive it really is for a nation to renege on deals it's made.

We are still seen as backstabbers and Junior... for events that happened before most (including myself) of the eUK were born.

I feel quite proud of the eUK, for one of the very few times in my eLife. We simply told our population that MKD and Cro are staying for a while, our community simply went 'K'... helping a friend shouldn't need to be agreed on, only acted upon.

I'm going to steal that last line Wayne. It's too precious to leave lying at the bottom of a comment section.

Shoulda asked the ppl first . Also chile should have given 1 up not us

Even if chile gave it all china would still not give us ours lol

Also, some people doesn't deserve voice...

Yes croat betrayer of own city deserve only stones.

Great article.

When did this country moved from epic, cool and awesome to whiny and "needs debate" ?

Perhaps you feel less strongly about our national territory as someone who is not Irish in reality? Come off it lad, we're about about the country here, and the country doesn't just consist of you and the lads. Unfortunately.

Come off it Bryan. If your stance is based on your RL feelings, then where are your feelings for the oppressed Macedonian refugees driven from their homes? Are you some kind of monster?,

Not being RL have nothing with this at all lol

Talking about RL Irish lads, most of my friends here ARE RL Irish..

Come off it Sweet, talk about poor refugees has more to do with RL than anything I say. Nor am I advocating that the referendum say no to them, only that it is common sense that a referendum is required. The country does not consist of just the Cabinet.

Don, OUR friends have little patience for opposition, or even talking to people. You all need to understand that this will lead to ruin. It lead to ruin for the bastards who ran the country before we came to power, and it will for us. You can't run the country like a club, it weakens us. Many in the opposition, contrary to your opinion, do in fact want a stronger Ireland and don't particularly care who is in power as long as they can participate. There are others waiting in the wings to betray the country for power as well, and every time you ignore the people is more power to them.

This almost made me believe ILP maybe isn't useless, but each time I see them commenting like RL politicians it looks just like they want votes. They had their opportunities to run a country and they never took it and did it properly.

I'd be happy as fck to see ILP being contributive part of the country.

Of course the ILP want to be in government, they're a political party. It's their moral right and their right under the game mechanics. Just because they don't acknowledge us as the better governors of the country doesn't mean we should silence the people entirely.

If anything, the ILP can point to this and say "Look, they don't care about your opinion". Sure, you'll get away with it now because allowing Macedonia the region is the right decision this time, but you won't get away with it every time. Each instance you ignore the players is one more step towards losing power.

The game exists for us all to play. When you exclude the majority from participating, it makes the game boring and it sets up a political line that the opposition can cross to get to power the dirty way. It weakens the country as a whole.

"Sure, you'll get away with it now because allowing Macedonia the region is the right decision this time, but you won't get away with it every time"
Assuming next time the situation is as big a no-brainer like this, we should all be happy the gov made it. If it's an actual question, it should be discussed.

I don't really see why this was even an issue...certainly isn't one in the UK where, afaik, we are lending a region.

Cuz we have some tards here

Don, you had every right to do what you did in the circumstances. Namely, we were fucking invaded and Macedonia was too.

But a rental is a separate matter.

The eUK also has a shitload more checks and balances on its government, unless things have changed greatly while I was lurking in eCanada. The eUK impeaches a lot more readily than Ireland as well.

In eIreland, executive authority is fucking divine except for one thing: The national territory belongs to everyone and so if you're going to give it away, you need to see if people actually agree to that. Irony: It's because of the eUK that the tradition originally sprung up....

Of course, but thats easier to say than to actually do when it comes to urgent and delicate things such this one was for numerous reasons..

Bravo Bryan, refer to the nation that consistently failed to hold another that was 1/4 it's size. Point at the administrative template that caused that total embarrassment. Tell us more about how that's what we should be like. Tell us more about roads to ruin.

tl;dr

Anything you say to justify giving orders from top-bottom without consultation of the people NOR their congressional representatives is always going to be ANTI-democratic and FASCIST!

Just be thankful I'm not actually what you call me Mike.
I bet I could have a lot of fun as that guy.
Doubt you'd like it 😁