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Vengeance, Justice & Diplomacy: India at a Crossroads.

Day 1,874, 05:12 Published in India Ireland by Death and Taxes
EDIT 0600 ***************** I'll let this article stand, in the meantime, lots of things have been happening. First of all the government has decided that diplomacy can wait and have attacked Croatia here: http://www.erepublik.com/en/military/battlefield/37341 This battle I am assuming has come in quickly to get in before the recent MPP proposal between China and Croatia. I assume we want to lose this war so that Croatia get the initiative and will lose their MPP with China? Wait and see.

In the meantime, China declares war on Spain here: http://www.erepublik.com/en/main/law/China/121775 As you know, thanks to the previous government we have an MPP with Spain and pretty much every other country that will fight with Spain in this war.

So yet again, we find ourselves caught in the middle. In the meantime you can read my out-of-date article, still relevant in most parts




Yesterday was a good day to be an eIndian. It was a good day for Circle of Trust and also for TWO. It was a bad day for Croatia, and a very bad day for EDEN.

It reinforces the global viewpoint that the EDEN alliance is failing. It emphasises that EDEN is concerned primarily with 'the chosen few' and that these 'chosen few' dictate EDEN policy above all others. It was not always thus. When I joined eRepublik TEDEN was a just and vengeful alliance, bringing justice to the world by defeating bullying hegemonic powers - you know who you are!



So that's it then, isn't it? All mapped out for us eh? We'll go ahead and join CoT/TWO, because don't forget, you can't have ONE without the other. Then, with the help of CoT/TWO we will drive out Croatia from our homeland and then aid CoT/TWO in their current plan of wiping China from the map.

Then we'll live happily ever after with all our neighbours in bliss and harmony...we'll be ONE happy family



Anybody feeling uneasy about this? Seems a bit false? I mean, we know Serbia don't want Croatia wiped as this would lead them to start annoying high-level RW's in the Balkans, and be a massive damage drain on Serbian resources.

Then there's the issue of India being renowned to be both loyal and a good friend. Not much of a friend to China then if we join CoT? We keep hearing the same people advocating joining CoT saying that we will always be friends with China. Well I'm sorry, you can't have both.

But before we have a discussion on all this, we need to pause for a while. We can pause because we have 72 hours before we renew our conflict with Croatia. Not only do we have the initiative, we also have a new government to deal with. So what I'm going to do now is set out a roadmap as I see fit for India.

You might disagree with me on the road and on the map. That's fine. But what this article is designed to do is to give you an idea about how you go about resolving the issues this conflict has caused, and how, no matter what decision is finally made, no-one can complain about how the verdict was reached.

Ready? Right, let's go:

Objective No1



First we need to strike a peace deal with Croatia. Nothing complicated like changing regions and land swaps and non-aggression pacts or the like. We simply need a cessation of the current conflict by agreed upon 'no natural enemy' proposals.

With a peace treaty in place, this gives the two nations time to get their collective acts together, ensures neither government makes hasty decisions, and allows us the opportunity to get the next part of our roadmap in place.


Objective No2



For this country to make a qualified decision, it needs information. My main and most vocal criticism over the last couple of weeks, has been the appalling attitude that just a few people can make decisions, without informing eIndians and allowing a discussion of decisions beforehand. We have been on a roller-coaster of reactive rather than pro-active actions. This must stop

The government should set up a committee of trusted citizens to gather information on what alliance we should join, and just as importantly, what the consequences will be should we do so.

For example we can:

Join CoT but not sign MPP's with TWO
Join CoT and sign up TWO MPP's
Stay Neutral
Re-join EDEN/GEA
Join Asgard or form a CoT-type alliance with EDEN loyalties
Join TWO

Obviously some of these options are implausible, but they are still options. We can't join CoT just because it seems the most practical, but we can join CoT if we compare it to these other choices and people make a democratic, informed choice.

So this committee will present a document to the citizens of India about what choices there are, and what the implications may be.

For example, did you know that in order to join CoT you need a 66%+1 majority in either Congress or as a referendum? Even then CoT may decide not to let us join. Which brings me to the next part:

Objective No3



In order to ensure we don't have the almighty mess we had in the last 'let's leave EDEN' dictat referendum, we need to have a proper one this time. I would hazard a guess that people would agitate that a vote to join an alliance should be a matter for congress. Of course I disagree, this lack of trust from the government - and congress for the matter - is responsible for this mess in the first place.

Whatever decisions and what menu of options are available for an alliance, it must be brought to the people to decide.

Courage India, trust your people.

That's it! Three simple measures to take to calm the current situation, inform the people of what options we have and their consequences, and a proper referendum to allow all to have their say.

Now. Is that too much to ask?













 

Comments

Grainne Ni Mhaille
Grainne Ni Mhaille Day 1,874, 05:28

v

Bhane
Bhane Day 1,874, 06:54

This article looks vaguely familiar. = P

An EDEN nation reconsidering it's "official member" status, to potentially look at other options.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 07:06

It's incredible how people's perspectives in the game vary so wildly.

If you want to win everything, join CoTWO, and that's all there is to it really.

Death and Taxes
Death and Taxes Day 1,874, 07:15

At the moment, true. But the game and alliances are cyclical. One thing that doesn't change is friendship, loyalty and integrity. You can't change a reputation.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 07:25

I'm afraid if you sincerely care about those things, you're in a tiny and dwindling minority.

Stolch
Stolch Day 1,874, 07:58

One would think India was deciding the fate of the new world judging by the amount of disinformation getting published lately.

1. It can be argued what EDEN was once upon a time (3 years ago), but it is irrelevant now. However what EDEN is now is quite clear. It is enough to see that Columbia is under Argentine PTO last 2 months and both countries are in the same alliance. The examples of how the alliance has rotted from the inside are countless in the last year and there is no need to revisit them all.

2. CoT does not equal TWO, the two alliances may be cooperating against a mutual enemy that has engaged in vilification, insults and all sorts of derogatory tactics (beepcows anyone) against both. It is EDEN that has facilitated this cooperation through it's actions and not the other way around.

3. I don't know what RL Indians think, but for me it would be utter humiliation to sign a peace with someone who has jumped me hile being a guest in my own house and insulted me without remorse on top of that. There has been no official apology or even show of remorse for the unquestionably very ugly incident, no only that the chat room still exists.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,874, 08:19

it's very clear what eden is indeed: world's favourite punching bag and it is not a coincidence why

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 08:21

I was going to respond with a wall of text comment, but all that needs to be said is that boredom is most often the motivating factor for countries changing sides.

There's a reason India chose EDEN, and there's a reason beyond survival that I would prefer to keep India on our side. (Btw I do not suggest that wiping Croatia (or threatening China) is the only reason CoTWO is courting you.)

Stolch
Stolch Day 1,874, 08:28

@Arrlo

I do not understand why the choices for India have to be put in certain tracks. It is up to India and it should be up to India to decide who it wants to have friendly relations with and who not.

No one is asking of India to attack China or anyone else in that matter, so all this talk of what would happen if god forbid India went off the righteous Edenite path is only speculation. The reality is that it was Croatia and EDEN that have attacked India when they couldn't find a diplomatic solution. The agressor is quite clear.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 08:35

No, now you are guilty of what you accuse EDEN of. You're trying to make this a black and white situation, when it is not.

Some Croatians made mistakes, but certain eIndians have been dilatory, dishonest and double-dealing in their behaviour during this episode. In my time in eRepublik I have observed something other than "Death and Taxes" which is sure, and that is that in diplomacy there is never a good guy and never a bad guy.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,874, 08:37

Well keep going on like that and the list of "bored" countries will grow even bigger.

It's amazing how after everything that happens month after month and with so many countries you'd still find the most illogical explanation for something that apparently deeply bothers you to admit it is true. And in your case it is understandable why it is so hard, afterall you've gone even against your own country because of something which is not what you think it is.

Roger Griswald
Roger Griswald Day 1,874, 08:45

Good article once again. Thanks for being a voice of reason.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 08:46

Wildrunner, that was a serious point I made. Ask any of the architects of most of the side changes - from either side to the other - and you will see. I did say "most often", I admit that racism and RL hatred plays an occasional part, wink.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,874, 09:03

Arrlo, the racist insults are just the tip of the iceberg.
What about the dealings with third parties about indian regions ( withouth bothering to inform India of course) and the overall not really an "ally" behaviour.

"but certain eIndians have been dilatory, dishonest and double-dealing in their behaviour during this episode."

any proves about your claims? If you wanna see what double-dealing and dishonest mean read this:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/vlada-tajlanda-vanredno-obracanje-srb-en-2187526/1/20

you'll see there what your croatian friends were up to

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 09:06

Wildrunner: I watched a rather prominent Indian sucking up to Bulgarians myself before I stopped coming on IRC for a while, so I guess a week or two before Christmas. Believe me or don't, but I hope you have the sense to acknowledge to yourself that no party is ever perfect and innocent.

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,874, 09:21

You said something about "double-dealings", I asked you to present prooves. "Sucking up to Bulgarians" means nothing really.
There are proves however that Croats had dealings with Thailand about India.

Look here what retardation means:
""<sino301>: we were allied
<sino301>: you left the alliance
<Vladimir_Alexei>: we didnt, we were part of GEA
<sino301>: and wanted to join cot
<Vladimir_Alexei>: not part of EDEN
<sino301>: but thai denied it
"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AdEce2U3B_H-AinWJU481xupAPCI44ItIfGVnTHkRiA/edit?pli=1
Where are the proves of India's double-dealings?

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,874, 09:26

Thai are noone to deny India's entrance to CoT, if they lied to Croats about this then this is completely different story. But then again this is Croatia's problem, what matters is that India is the absolute victim here. A victim of a disgusting betrayal and horrible treatment they certainly never deserved.

Kazami Yuuka
Kazami Yuuka Day 1,874, 09:36

I'm still awed how people can talk about "India is now a CoTwo puppet who will aid in destroying china", when that's not what is happening here, but sure.. forget the fact that croatia is hostile. Just forget all about that some few CoTwo countries want to help India who's getting attacked by a damagehood with croatia being the front douchebag.
" I mean, we know Serbia don't want Croatia wiped as this would lead them to start annoying high-level RW's in the Balkans, and be a massive damage drain on Serbian resources."
Lol. That's serbia's problem, they should both stay in the balkans and drain eachother, that would probably be for the better good of the game.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 09:46

I don't have logs or google docs, only my own witnessing the former Indian CP sounding out Bulgarians in public. I prefer to avoid the intrigues and backstabbing of the various sides in this game.

I maintain that it's utterly implausible to claim anyone is the "absolute victim" in any situation like this.

<sino301>: and wanted to join cot

^I suppose you will say there is nothing to this, there was never a faction in India (and elsewhere) agitating for that eventuality, that Croatia purposefully and intentionally spoiled our relationship with India in order to drive them to the arms of CoTWO, and therefore willingly to condemn ourselves to near certain wiping? Come on.

ObIiterate
ObIiterate Day 1,874, 09:52

@Alfred: Are you reading a different article + comments?

Wildrunner
Wildrunner Day 1,874, 10:01

There are no proves for India negotiating to join CoT, no matter what one or another person wished, they were loyal to Croatia. There are only empty claims that they did and even more retarded claims that they got refused by.... Thai ( epic facepalm).

Croatia pushed India to CoTWO by betraying it.

Adhavan
Adhavan Day 1,874, 10:08

Thanks for the article.

Graf Sprat
Graf Sprat Day 1,874, 11:34

eRichard Parker said

"3. I don't know what RL Indians think, but for me it would be utter humiliation to sign a peace with someone who has jumped me hile being a guest in my own house and insulted me without remorse on top of that. There has been no official apology or even show of remorse for the unquestionably very ugly incident, no only that the chat room still exists."

and I say.. Hear Hear....

To me some things are just plain and simple ..

You have a guest in your house... The guest decides the room he is staying in is not comfortable.. asks his room to be changed.. and while you are internally discussing the feasibility of that change within the family, decides to take over the room he wants by forcibly evicting the family member staying in that room..

Now you can obfuscate this as much as one wants, but at the end of it, this is simply land grab (or Kabza as we call it in the cow tongue )

ultimatewinner
ultimatewinner Day 1,874, 12:01

I hope your Objective #1 is not acceptable to eIndians at this point atleast. I am also eIndian since birth in erepublik and never changed my citizenship and it is not acceptable to me. I am ok if we are wiped out for many-many months.

Stolch
Stolch Day 1,874, 14:12

@arrlo

After Thailand published a very detailed account of what has happened over the last 4-5 months your "version" of events just doesn't hold up at all.

As for the relations between Bulgaria and India they have never been a secret at all and while Bulgaria had left an invitation for India to join it in forming a ne alliance (before CoT even existed) it fully respected the choice of India and never interfered in it's affairs. This somehow was not a problem for months before, but all of a sudden is the reason quoted now.

Basically smoke and mirrors to deflect responsibility.

The really amusing thing is that from Croatia comes the claim that Serbia runs TWO and CoT is vassal and thus Serbia runs the world and from Thailand the claim is that Bulgaria runs CoT and orders TWO around and thus runs the world.

This of course is the standart story coming from EDEN every time something happens, it's Serbia or Bulgaria or Poland or martians doing it cause they want your babies candy for themselves.....it's getting old and pathetic at this point, not to mention transparant and ineffective.

HemanathanKumar
HemanathanKumar Day 1,874, 14:40

@ arrlo :
India has always a victims of Croatian action in these conflicts , Be it a Hidden deal with Thailand or Be it a Hostile IRC chat room meeting between two countries , Be it NE Law.
And As per the chat log claims that , if they are accusing India that had held discussion with CoT , I dont see any wrong there . It is not as bad as Croatia had deal with Thailand not minding to take India into consent.

You expect India to 'YES' on your every move that helps you stabilize in the region without any discussion ??
Still No official apology or what so ever from Croatian Govt on that IRC chat room name.

When India Moved out GEA , It was decided to stay neutral and want to help croatia in its defense against Indo , which we stood to our words.
Unfortunately , It was Croatia who thought that there was no neutrality in this game without minding about our contribution and you made this issue complicated for few Pro-Croat Indians to talk on your behalf .

Ind1anMartyr
Ind1anMartyr Day 1,874, 18:20

To start off with, the article is quite interesting and a good read. The arguments above (in comments) are also quite interesting and have actually been made in a pretty sophisticated manner (which I must say is unlike a few people who seem to think abusing is the way to get the point across) ... this makes the article even better!

We never ever stated a desire to go at China...and (from what I am aware of) no one has asked us to go against them (as yet) Im not sure where this information is being disseminated... its incorrect. Is it a possibility in the future? With Serbia, Spain and Poland pretty much advancing towards China (alongwith Bulgaria maybe) its not very likely that India will become a critical factor in things. In fact I would not be surprised if China decide to pre-empt a strike and put out an NE against India to try and save themselves from an assault. If that happens, then we would try our best to defend but things do not look rosy in such a scenario.

To all the various claims that India jumped alliances (which as yet has not happened... we have jumped OUT of one) ... solely on the basis of who was winning - that is completely wrong. In fact joining up with CoT, we stand a greater danger of being erased by Croatia and China combined. However, like I have said, I have always believed in the ideals of CoT and the way they stand up for each other and THAT is the reason we should be in CoT.

Does the CoT ideal ring a bell? yes this is what EDEN used to be which is why so many people praised it (even if begrudgingly) and this is what CoT stands for now... while EDEN has gone downhill.

Ind1anMartyr
Ind1anMartyr Day 1,874, 18:21

"When India Moved out GEA , It was decided to stay neutral and want to help croatia in its defense against Indo , which we stood to our words.
Unfortunately , It was Croatia who thought that there was no neutrality in this game without minding about our contribution and you made this issue complicated for few Pro-Croat Indians to talk on your behalf ."

Truer words were never spoken !! well said Hemanathan

Death and Taxes
Death and Taxes Day 1,875, 00:25

@Ash

Spain will go to war with China today (NE passes at 0200 today) China has NE'd Spain in return. All of TWO will be using Spain as a proxy to try and defeat China, we have MPP's with Spain, Poland, Chile, Mexico, Peru, Slovenia and Macedonia, all of whom will be attacking China through Spain.

We have an MPP with China, when we 'lose' Northern India today - a battle that we started early deliberately - we will force Croatia to lose her MPP with China.

Now, I don't speak to China, but I reckon all the above would give rise to them thinking we weren't friendly or loyal to them....

Vladimir Alexei
Vladimir Alexei Day 1,875, 04:49

Wont comment FA part of the article as I dont need that BS anymore:D

"When I joined eRepublik TEDEN was a just and vengeful alliance, bringing justice to the world by defeating bullying hegemonic powers - you know who you are!"

Well, when I joined eRepublik ATLANTIS was one big bully that was destroying small countries. Then these small countries had Baby Booms and became PEACE which actually destroyed ATLANTIS. Since then, most of the time PEACE was stronger.

Gwom
Gwom Day 1,878, 12:42

Re-join EDEN/GEA

 
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