The Taxman Cometh
Day 2,141, 21:42
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Published in USA 
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by
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by Tyler Bubblar
In the past few days there's been a lot of outcry over the tax hike. The decision to double taxes all done in confidential boards has rubbed many the wrong way. Some (including myself) have stopped doing their WAM. Others are leaving the country. Those in favor of the increase argue that the lack of bonuses hurts the country more than a tax increase. They're correct. We lose far more production and income from no bonuses then a 10% tax takes from us. However, high taxes pushed upon a people already enduring no bonuses appears to be the straw that broke the camels back for many. It's the principle of it.
I was opposed to the tax increase. I shared my concerns with the Fed Congress Caucus. I told them 5% of something is greater than 10% of nothing. I worried about people stopping production, reducing production, or taking their production elsewhere. I believed those in favor of the Fiscal Solvency Act were underestimating the backlash. I've also been disappointed in the open scorn and mockery those who've spoken out against this Act have been subjected to. It's possible to disagree without destroying one another. We're better than that.
I've proposed a reduction of the work tax rate to 7%. I know many will say it's not enough. It can and will be said by those on both sides of the issue. It's however what I believe will pass. For those who want a low tax rate I'm with you, but we need money to fight this war, and reclaim our bonuses. For those who want a higher tax rate 7% is a surplus. No one completely gets what they want, but that's what compromise frequently looks like. Give a little to keep things moving along. The discussion, proposal, and vote for this lower work tax will take place entirely in the public boards of Congress. I urge all of you fellow citizens to keep an eye on the proceedings. http://eusaforums.com/forum/index.php/topic,28500.0.html
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Thanks for getting this info out. This might be a good compromise at 7%
we should let everyone vote on it.
http://www.jkeller4000.com/taxpoll.html
I'll chose door number death, thank you.
Very well, Death by taxes!
i see...hmm interesting.. Voted!
Voted and completely agree with.
While food price go down after end of missions effect, my Q1 factories will hibernate.
Which battles have had federal CO from these taxes?
From these taxes specifically? Likely, none.
The taxes are in place to replenish the reserve funds that we have hemorrhaged over the past 2 months by continuous spending on combat orders.
check out the recent shows on eNPR. They discuss this in depth.
I have only the Iron Mine that every player who can't ignore a mission has. It currently produces 42 WRM, which I can buy for 2.60cc (there are boatloads @0.06c/WRM right now) rather than work for 3.15cc. If I actually wanted to sell them, I'd have to undercut @0.05cc/WRM, which means that I'd only get 2.10cc for them. If the intention is to raise prices by limiting supply, or to curb players from gaining XP by WAMing with default companies, then we have a valid strategy. If the intention is to raise money, then (if players are rational), you can't set higher than 8.2% or maybe even 6.6% with today's conditions (WRM price and average salary).
well i have to say, i started a rw in washington. to get the cattle bonus, i put over 30,000 on combat orders to help bring inallies also. and what, did we win? nope,
though i was told the start of a war should start at usa prime time. but to win a war we need allies and we have allies all around the world so timeine should not really matter. but i gues usa fights harder for usa than mercenaries.
so if usa citizens are not willing to fight to get resources, if usa citizens are not willing to work hard.
if the only way is for the government to tax 25% because i know what we do with profits build more buildings. instead of buying weps to do damage to win wars. so we should tax 25% and with the surplus gov funds co's should become abundant. might take threee months because of the gov beauracy.
if the usa citizens will not help them elves they will be taxed and told what is good for them! so please if you do not want raised taxes give you profits to your mu to fund co's. so the gov does not need to raise taxes to give supplies to the military nor funds to co's.
Sounds like an excellent way to push more US citizens to move to other countries.
well if a citizen moves out of the country, then they did not support it in the first place.
i support america!
if you think the majority of americans are terrioists then let them go to serbia. i would rather be fighting my enemy than working along side them!
I'm suggesting tax at 2% through October 31 to encourage growth, then raise it to 7.5% through December 31st.
Our allies don't do enough damage outside our prime to make up the difference. TWO holds about 60% of the eWorlds damage and they've concentrated that damage on keeping us down. Until TWO breaks down or mechanics change heavily in our favor, nothing is going to change.
unless we introduce a boatload of new ta😜aying citizens to replenish the reserves faster
I was tempted to leave the game once we were forced to suffer a 25% tax. even this 10% tax makes me want to move to another nation, and I know a few people that already have. If we willingly increased taxes to 25% I would be out of here.
If you really want to maximize taxes, think of the laffer curve. The idea is you will earn more tax revenue at lower tax rates because more people will be working. If you raise tax rates to high either everyone will leave or stop working their companies and you will collect less taxes than you would at a lower %.
I really love the idea of a 7% tax, though I personally think 3% is best (though it wont happen until after we get our nation back).
so your saying you play for profit not to support our country, i would be happy to find a terrioist group for you that would pay you some cash for harming america!
I have no idea where u got the terrorist thing from, and my patriotism is the only thing keeping me in the country as it is. If I only cared about profit I would have left months ago when we got wiped.
That's not an accurate description of the Laffer curve. Lower taxes do not result in higher revenue unless you are to the right of the vertex of the curve. The location we are currently at on the Laffer curve is not right of the vertex since this increase in tax rates to 10% has actually succeeded in raising government tax revenues. Therefore, we are still on the left side of the curve here.
well no patriot would ever even think of leaving their country, so you are not a pratriot if the governemt can make you leave. so because you are not for the government you are aginst it, people who are aginst the governemt are generally reffered to as terriosts,
and because you are trying to make people afriad of raising taxes, you are tring to cause them fear, or to be terrified, so there for you saying if they raise taxes your leaving impling that your leaving will hurt people, therefore your causing people to be afraid, and there by making yourself a terriost!
Just because I'm against the government's tax policy does not mean I am against the government and by no means am I trying to destroy the government. I also do not see how I am causing fear in anyway. I think you are just trying to blow this way out of proportion.
I'm tired of guilt trip reasoning. THIS IS A DAMNED GAME. Different people play different ways. I moved to Switzerland because the US sucks. I am only a game piece on a f'ing game board. I still have a US flag flying on a flagpole in my yard in rl.
The reason I left was that there is a small group that makes decisions in the eUS. Usually they make good decisions, sometimes not. This is a not. I was sick of a dozen people telling hundreds of people what to do and when shit went wrong blaming everyone else.
As far as the econ goes, this is Plato's screw up from long ago and the feeble attempt to reign in overproduction. The work tax is a last ditch effort to supply revenue to countries before game mechanics like MPP's, NE's, AS's and such are pointless. Bluntly, no money > no war > no game. The tournaments are the second prong of the attack. Designed for gold whores (I'm one BTW) so that lots of weapons and food are bought in bulk to create massive damage.
My simple fix is an econ mod that WORKS! Everyone cannot have companies. Someone has to work in those companies. If everyone owns & WaM's companies there are no workers. (Also, bots need to be in place to regulate prices so those workers can afford the stuff produced. i.e. To stop gouging.)
@Jkeller ;
Taxes are always helpful but without popular support and coordination no one should use the CO button other than congress.
@Lee5790
Due to the recent implementation of WaM taxes The curve of which you speak no longer applies; the real issue is there is no longer a donation history list (viva v1) to track movement of revenue past the CBO.
The rate of 10% keeps the math simple, our goal as an eNation should be to tighten our grip on congress to remain accountable for their spending habits.
@Dilly,
The flag in your yard could never excuse your behavior as a govt rep before your departure to eSwiss. We who stayed will fix these problems in our own time and hope expats like yourself will return home to become part of the solution to repairing our community instead of turning tail and running to greener pastures.
My flag and I thank you for the kind words about my extended service to the US govt. The endless times I asked questions of leaders and got insufficient answers (at least) or was rebuffed. I fought for transparency and accountability to the little guy. I used my voice in the fray to promote reason and thought instead of reaction and blind obedience. You are quite welcome, I'm sure.
Now I move on to those "greener pastures" and leave the exciting fun of restoration to you and your buddies. I've said my piece and done my bit. I have no more tricks up my sleeve. I will be happy to give it one more go however. Just as soon as certain idiots (not all elitists are bad BTW) move to UK or Paki for the last time and the eUSforum is deleted I would be pleased to help you rebuild.
[removed]
Excellent proposal and excellent point about players basically shouting down others when they don't get their way. I mentioned a 7-8% rate in the WTP caucus and it was shouted down and I was called an 'enabler', whatevertf that means.
Personally, I think that the people who want higher tax rates are doing it intentionally to try to rid the country of people they don't like. I think it is those people who should gtfo.
oh you want me to leave? i pay almost 1000 in taxes at 10% a day, if you want to cover those losses then i can leave!
but i say it is you who wants personal profit, and don't care about anyone but yourself should gtfo
Bro, I never said I wanted anyone to leave the country. I was against these tax increases, and am astonished that the congress would conduct itself the way it did, just to get its way. So...I'm not sure where you're going with this.
You sir are a dick... Here is the dumbed down version of what you just sai😛
"I'm better than you are because I pay a bunch of taxes. The way I play this browser game is so much better than yours I make you look stupid. You should take you lousy game skills and go home, we don't want your kind around here anymore."
This is the most repugnant form of school yard crap that I've seen in quite awhile. Congratulations on dragging this down to an 8th grade level. (My apologies to any 8th graders reading.)
well, generally i like to have the opposite opinion of everyone, and when some one says for people to gtfo, i tend to tell them they should,
i am a bit of a troll, especially on the tax issue and being an engineer, you never say lets make a device medium speed, you say lets make it as chaep as possible or as fast as possible. it is the art majors who find the middle ground, so i will always take extreme values because they are much more fun than some middle of the road kinda here kinda there policy.
thedillpickl u jelly? 😛 lol ha!!
no i am saying that lether neck wanted me to leave, because i clearly state in another comment i want the people who i do not like to leave and raising taxes would make them leave. and then trying to show him that asking anyone to leave will have a very negative effect on the state of the country.
but anyways yes i am also completely bragging, for those who read at an eight grade level, some people just cannot understand some conversations. so i guess i need to make things for an eight grade reading level.
i am not happy with you comment leather, asking anyone to gtfo is offensive to me.
i am a good player and you have just asked me to leave. i am in the top 1000 usa players of all time and asking the top 1000 players to leave the country is not beneficial to anyone who is not currently in the top 1000.
Dude lay off the crank, and remove yourself from your high hoarse. And please unwrap yourself from the flag, it seems to be cutting down on your oxygen intake.
More ad more misrepresentation. You never offered a 7-8%, you adamantly opposed any increase in taxes.
Keep up the campaign of lies JJ.
"Even if you wanted to go a couple of percentage points higher, I would be cool with that. But 25% is out of the question."
😁Straight from the WTP caucus PM. We were at 5%, 'a couple percentage points' would be 7%.
Need to learn how to read before you speak.
Huh. Wish that thread hadn't fallen out of my inbox, then I might be able to actually say you were right about something.
Oh well, eRepublik, u so zany.
What would you say about a 2% tax to bring in a load of new citizens and then 7.5% as of October 31st-December 31st.
List of assholes was joined by jkeller 🙂
He moved himself up fast on my list as well.
WHERE TO INVEST?
Q3 (WRM/FRM) profitability by country:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/q31-2324725/1/20
I support this.
"high taxes pushed upon a people already enduring no bonuses appears to be the straw that broke the camels back for many. It's the principle of it"
good good
So here's how this tax hike has played out for this self sufficient casual player for anyone who thought it was a good idea to begin with. I've stopped production, stopped fighting, and pretty much stopped caring that we're losing state after state. I've seen people leave the country and leave the game, if the tax increase was part of what did it, only they can say. I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who has stopped fighting and producing, which might explain why we are nearly wiped, again.
To be honest, 7% tax is still too high, I wasn't even happy with the 5%, but did go along with it since I was still making a couple cc profit/day. I don't care if we have no bonuses, I could still produce and fight for at least my 25 kills/day with no bonuses and 5% tax. Now I don't do either. My eRep day consists of working a job, training, and voting if it's an election day, how exciting!
My suggestion to everyone in the political realm, think of the average person, the people who you don't even notice but put up with the political crap day to day. This is the backbone of the eUS, not the prominent politicians or the D4 tanks, but the people that play this game to have a little fun. And if they can't have their fun, we all lose.
I think you've summed up the problem very well. (Hopefully) unintended consequences kill.
This was my thinking exactly. I've endured a lot of taxes but still made money at least. With the 10% worker tax, I was bleeding money and it no longer became fun for Americans.
I completely agree with this. While I would love to see a 5% tax, that would likely not pass. However, a 7% tax is an excellent compromise and something that everyone should be able to get behind.
Taxes were raised to "fight the war". All one has to do is look at the map to see how that is going. The problem with raising taxes is that by doing so, you are giving more money to people that view money as the end all in terms of fixing problems and winning wars, when that is not the case. We will NEVER outspend TWO.
A long term war plan should be demanded if we are to accept a tax hike, instead of short term plans that basically win political points instead of battles.
"A long term war plan should be demanded if we are to accept a tax hike, instead of short term plans that basically win political points instead of battles."
Except the point of raising the tax this time was not to spend it, but to save it and refill the reserves.
The only thing sure for life are death and taxes
so stop bitching about it.... and feel glad ure alive to pay the last.
Or move to Switzerland with me!
eUS = Death and taxes.
The psychological value of any tax rate below 10% would have been beneficial.
However, many of the people who left were already on the edge for one reason or another, enduring low bonuses for a long time, feeling like they weren't valued, etc. Any tax increase was likely to push them out, no matter how necessary it seemed at the time.
10% has caused a lot of vocal leaving, but it's boosted revenues to levels that are needed.
If we blow all our reserves on removing Poland and Spain, and get invaded again, then what happens? We can't move money out of the CT, and we have no money to free ourselves.
Since the people who HAVE lined up to donate to trying to free America have emptied their wallets, there needed to be another way to increase revenues.
So, pay your 10%, don't pay your 10%. Just know you're hurting the country far more than you're helping yourself by leaving.
inb4 "elitists lining their pockets wiff mah monis"