The Coalition: A TUP Point of View
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by intrepid132
So, the Communists have been moaning, and moaning, and moaning some more, both in the forums and newpaper articles. Here's the Link to Bob's article http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/the-coalition-fiasco-705543/1
So, in response to this moaning, I have this to say.
1) Democracy is not Destroyed because of this:
EVERY PERSON, REGARDLESS OF PARTY AFFILIATION, HAS THE ABILITY TO VOTE FOR WHICHEVER CANDIDATE THEY FEEL IS BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no clause in the coalition that every member of the party must vote for the candidate. Therefore, Democracy, in the truest, most basic, sense is still there. Yes, the sheep voters will follow the candidate their party supports. But there's nothing you can do about that anyways. So really, all this means is that the PCP is angry that now they actually have to work and convince informed voters that their opinions are the best, and given the amount of PR Bremer had, this really shouldn't be a huge struggle, if they have good policies.
2) Squiddy was NOT acting in his own, personal interest in this.
Yes, I will agree that Squiddy didn't inform us concisely and openly about this coalition. He certainly should have put it up for a vote beforehand. But time was short, and to give it the proper discussion time would have postponed the agreement until after the election. Squiddy acted with Executive powers, which I feel his position as Party President warrants. Personally, I would have disagreed with this coalition as it stands now, but now that it is official, I am fully behind him, and so are (it seems) a majority of TUP members who have voted so far in the poll Squiddy proposed afterwards.
This is all I feel qualified to answer, being a new player and all. The one issue not discussed here are the proposed PCP/TUP coalitions, but players far older than I will have a go at that.
This opinion does not even pretend to represent the official TUP party line. If there is an actual, factual error in any of this, I apologize in advance.
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Yay finally some sort of sense instead of this mindless communist whining and moaning. If sheep voters actually looked at the policies of the candidates, it would help them make an educated decision. Voted.
So do i vote before i read the article or after,maybe you could make an executive decision for me?
'So, the Communists have been moaning, and moaning, and moaning some more, both in the forums and newpaper articles.'
How about trying to get your point across without trying to start a flame war?
Action like that from Squiddy was completely out of order for your party - whether they can see it or not, or are blind the truth.
it wasn't for the best interests of the country at all it was so he could get into power and the main problem i have with it is there are at least 3 members of tup who said that they wouldn't of voted for it if it was done democraticly
It's none of your business what sorts of coalitions that parties can and can't enter. Therefore, all the PCP is doing now is moaning. What you say about it isn't going to change anything, you guys are just trying to make us out like the bad guys, for doing something that is entirely within our rights to do.
I'm sorry but I see no alternative explanation to why Squiddy acted the way he di😛 he wanted to ensure that he got president so instead of risking it being democratically rejected by the party he just went ahead and signed the contract. That is not democracy.
And I think the fact that Tommy as a neutral can see that I think is quite obvious.
Btw, TUP in the next party election vote Brodie. Someone who wanted this to be done democratically and someone who would make a great president.
They say that we would all sheep vote anyway (paraphrasing). I find that quite insulting. If everyone only voted for their party candidate, we wouldn't bother with a vote at all. We could simply save a lot of time by checking the recruitment numbers.
Intrepid, sure it is in your rights, but if we weren't allowed to criticise anyone just because what they did was their right we wouldn't be able to criticise hardly anything.
For example, PCP are in their rights to call ourselves after communism, yet we get abused and challenged on that. For another example, Dish proposes a piece of legislation, I have a problem with it and yet I'm not allowed to criticise as he was in his rights to propose it.
Your point makes no sense.
@Tommy: Well, that's your opinion. As I said, I feel that Squiddy's position gives him some executive powers, and he utilized them. I support him, and so do most TUP Members.
@Rastari: Thats three members out of 187. that's 1.6% of our total party. If we can achieve 98.4% satisfaction with this, then this will probably be the most unified behind a single goal that a party can hope the achieve.
'How about trying to get your point across without trying to start a flame war?'
He's not, he's pointing out fact and you've just proved him right so congrats 😃
@ Widds: Criticizing in Congress is a different matter. There's something you can do to change that, to alter the proposal, to influence it. This is already done. You can't change it, so complaining about it is immaterial. And I agree that you guys do take a lot of flak for your name. And I apologize if I seem to pander to it in the beginning.
@Hazzn: I hope you're paraphrasing someone other than me 😛
I think this is down to opinion with no real outcome.
What TUP and UKRP did is not illegal. It is debatable whether or not it is fair. (A debate I am not going to start or get involved in again.)
However, slandering Squiddy, when none of you can possibly know what his intentions are (you are not inside his head, how could you?) is something that I find out of order entirely. Maybe it looks to you like he is behaving selfishly, but this is again a subjective opinion and should not be represented as fact.
HazzN is right. Also there's no point moaning about it now, the coalition happened and it's here to stay.
@ Intrepid, sorry, no I was paraphrasing your referenced article. Sadly I do not have the energy, or frankly, the balls, to post something quite so inflammatory on one of their papers. I am actually quite a mild mannered man, and I dislike the idea that I am already getting a name for myself as being a troll. I am actively trying to restrain myself.
yep, that's actually a good idea. Me, on the other hand, I've just come out of attacking MDU to defending the TUP from PCP. So I'm ok if people think I'm annoying/inflammatory, although for the sake of the TUP's good name, I'm also trying to remain positive in the face of all this adversity against us.
"PR Bremer had"
Whats PR?
Public Relations
PR😛ublic Relations
Also known as the PCP Media Machine
Notice, the three top articles are all about Bremer. So, if the PCP put their minds to it, they could drown out everyone else in game.
Preemptive retaliation it seems
is that aimed at me? or at my usage of PR in the article?
I was just explaining it in context, and explaining what I meant by the explanation, just now. Just being thorough, not preemptive.
'Also known as the PCP Media Machine
Notice, the three top articles are all about Bremer. So, if the PCP put their minds to it, they could drown out everyone else in game.'
With drones of sheep voters voting the article up
Not aimed at you,if it hit sorry!
that's ok, I was just double checking 😛
I see all the PCP people have given up fighting on this one. that's good, I think 😛
Yeah defiantly
You haven' tackled any of our arguments against in this article, you've just accused us of moaning
Well what are your arguments then?
@ Bob: Look back at your own article. Your arguments against this were the loss of democracy, and Squiddy's personal conduct. both of those are covered here.
Too many comments. I've already made my opinion clear on the forums but I feel I need to point this out, again.
1) Democracy is non-existant in the eUK for the next 4 months. We know who will win.
2) The poll, actually, is at a tie. 2 people expressed that if the poll was made BEFORE the coalition was in place, they would of voted no, or at the very least, voted no and suggest it be shortened.
3) The poll is pointless anyway. Its too late and it was pretty badly presented. Not having a go at Squiddy at all here, but there should of been a list of Pros and Cons and opinions in the first post, instead of just "Vote please".
IndieKid, call me the PCP a sheep voter party again, c'mon, use your great knowledge of this game, your boundless experience, also, we only quit because there's no point, i donk't think you realised that you drove a further 4 highly active members from the UK in doing this, including me and Ip, so TUP, shut-up, stop trying to justify yourself, i know its wrong, so do you, but we can leave it and wait out the 4 months, ok?
'IndieKid, call me the PCP a sheep voter party again, c'mon, use your great knowledge of this game, your boundless experience'
Nothing like encouraging new members to get involved in politics is there taytaz? From the short time I've been on here, it's the kind of thing I've come to expect from your party.
"Nothing like encouraging new members to get involved in politics is there taytaz? From the short time I've been on here, it's the kind of thing I've come to expect from your party."
You're being ridiculous, ther only reason i can imagine you posted the same (incorrect) thing three times was to provoke a reaction and i suppose you would have kept on doing so until you got a nice little quote to sully PCP's name. It is well known and admitted that PCP are a higly active party, the other parties are now aswell, PCP clearly never won an election through "sheep-voting".
@ Intrepid, Last point of fact in case you didn't realise, PCP is actually situated in the e-UK. We are a UK political party. I state this because you obviously didn't realise when you said 'It's none of your business what sorts of coalitions that parties can and can't enter', buddy if you didn't know the PCP are affected because they are a UK political party, hence why it is our business and hence why we reserve the right to be pissed off at the lack of democracy.
'What you say about it isn't going to change anything, you guys are just trying to make us out like the bad guys, for doing something that is entirely within our rights to do', this does make you the 'bad guys' so get used to it. Btw just in case you didn't know, you do not have the right to take away freedom of choice, Squiddy effectively did this.
@ HaZZn
'However, slandering Squiddy, when none of you can possibly know what his intentions are (you are not inside his head, how could you?) is something that I find out of order entirely. Maybe it looks to you like he is behaving selfishly, but this is again a subjective opinion and should not be represented as fact.'
Buddy last I checked you have been representing as fact that Squiddy did a democratic thing and a thing for the benefit of his country.
Last time I checked you are not in Squiddy's head either so unless you are confessing yourself as a multi then maybe you should re-think what you say.
P.S if you are going to use logic, use it all the way not half way through
@ IndieKid
No offense buddy but maybe you shoudn't have been so rude and tried to start flame wars, especially as you don't make logical sense. Btw most people are smart and learn things before they make stupid statements so they don't come off looking like an idiot.
Btw you insulted Taytaz's party you think she's going to say yeah you're right keep going? I know you are a noob but that doesn't have anything to do with it, you be rude so you get told to shut up, you do have the ability to use logic right? Don't insult others and then have a sook when they tell you to shut up.
Btw point of fact it was not done in any sort of Democratic way, (notice how Flamur is pissed off at Squiddy, he got no choice in his Parties direction), another point of fact for you is that it was not done in the best interest of the country otherwise you would have each placed your support behind each other on an election by election basis according to what was best for the country at the time. Another un-democratic thing was the use of an insurance, effectively blackmail once signed, if you didn't know this is what corruption is. I wouldn't have cared if TUP had democratically decided to support UKRP, nor would I have cared if their wasn't a contract, that would have been democratically sound. But because you did all the corrupt things which lets face it in the real world you would have gotten in so much crap for being corrupt many people, including those in your own party are pissed.
@ Cheeseball
Did you even read the article, or just the comments?
The whole first point describes how this isn't taking away democracy. People still have the right to vote for who they think is the best candidate. That is democracy. Not that every party must field their own candidates. If the TUP entered a coalition with the PCP, and the UKRP kicked up as much of a fuss as you guys have for this, I'm sure that you'd be the first to tell UKRP it's none of their business.
Squiddy didn't feel that we had a candidate that can run and win in the next two months, but we will in 3. I am inclined to agree with him, as is (contrary to Flamur's opinion) the majority of the TUP who have voted. As such, we entered into this coalition. What any of that has to do with the PCP, I have yet to see.