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pertamaxx

Because the Admin locked your thread, you're throwing a temper tantrum now. This may actually present valid points in both instances, except you've actually tried to align with TUP for 4 months, not 2. But you're hardly presenting this in it's entirety.

Dish, I, YES ME BY MYSELF WITHOUT PARTY APPROVAL OR PARTY DIRECTION APPROACHED TUP TO ASK THEM TO MAKE SURE TIM WAS THEIR SECOND CHOICE, NOT FOR A COALITION WHERE WE SUPPRESS DEMOCRACY, IGNORE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE AND LOOK OUT ONLY FOR OURSELVES BY GAINING POWER RATHER THAN WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY.

Man am I glad I logged into here to donate my money to CCCP and saw what UKRP/TUP are doing, it's disgraceful. Especially Squiddy's conduct, poor FD would be turning in his egrave as would kaleb, you should be ashamed.

Now look, you nearly got me involved again, final comment on the issue.

I agree with Dish,

you are hardly presenting this in it's entirety.

You should've said about the Squiddy's campaign for PP, you should've said that PCP disagreed on TUP's coallition based on moral grounds, you should've said UKRP is right wing and TUP is left wing. And many other things.

God, Widds just destroyed Dish.

I think people need to realise how bad this is for democracy: you might as well not vote in the next four elections, we know who will get president...

Let the people decide I'm begging you UKRP/TUP, not let one party and the leader of another (who doesn't even tell his party about the contract) decide for them. If you can't win an election fairly then you don't deserve to be in power, this is dictatorship, pure and simple.

Why don't you just pass an enabling law and eventually disable the reichstag, oh I mean congress...

What I would like to see now is some members of UKRP/TUP criticise this for what it is: a blatant attempt to gain power above democracy and above the people having a choice and above what is best for the country and what the people want.

flamur did and i don't think brodie's too happy either

Ok, so there's a lot of Communist Angst out there about this, as witnessed through the admins actually locking a thread. I've never seen that happen, in my month on the forums.

I will defend Squiddy, by saying that this did come together very rapidly. He did what he felt was best for the party, and for eUK. He didn't follow protocol, yes, but in a poll since the institution of this contract, the yes side is winning 9-5. So it seems a majority of people in the TUP who are active on the forums so far (which includes most of our top people) support this, and as such, Squiddy was not operating on his own interests. And I promise you, this coalition will become a major issue in the party president campaign.

As a final note, I would strongly recommend people look at the forum topic, even though it's locked. It presents both sides of the argument, albeit with more PCP representation.

@Bremer, specifically:
I thought we agreed that Squiddy didn't lie. And you know, it's extremely hard to reject a coalition that was your idea/one that was never proposed to you on moral grounds. And Finally, I personally would have said that TUP is more centrist. And as a party, we're pretty much unanimous that we like dish's policies.

Oh and this stuff about it not compelling people to vote Dish is rubbish. Pretty much all TUP/UKRP members due to the coalition will vote for that person agreed on in the contract. I think election results will reflect this.

Basically you tried to form a coalition with TUP but they wouldn't accept it because you included nothing that would help them as a party. We did and they accepted our proposal so stop whining about it all

I'm not going to respond to your comment about 'whining', I don't want to start a flame war, I want to present my point of view and the facts.

I, by myself as a member of the eUK, asked TUP to vote Tim if the race was close between him and Dish. The reason I didn't offer anything in return was because I was not acting on behalf of the party and because offering something in return, in my opinion, is bribing them.

If TUP want to make a coalition with UKRP I have no problem with it, the problems I have are with the time period stipulated and the fact that TUP get president for supporting UKRP. That is buying votes, we scratch your back you scratch ours. I would have no problem at all with a coalition in which one party agreed to vote for the other and get nothing in return, none at all as that would show to me that they were voting for him purely because they think he was the best candidate and purely for the benefit of the eUK.

Getting something in return says to me: we're doing this so that we benefit.

Is that a valid point?

P.S I apologise for the all caps lock message above, no need for the caps lock.

Btw, that was me with the CCCP Bank in case that wasn't obvious.

In regards to the three months before, I was not involved in those discussions, as far as I'm aware it was the same as my letter just official from the party.

I know you can't force people to vote a certain way, but now that TUP aren't even fielding a candidate all TUP sheep voters and normal voters will see that, they will look at UKRP which is supported by 4 parties, they'll see their party on there and vote UKRP. Plus, by taking away their candidate you're effectively forcing them to vote UKRP as they see no other option as voting someone else, in their eyes, will be going against the party.

Oh and Dish you can't deny that when I wrote that letter to TUP you then sent a PM to me saying how you thought it was unfair, and yet now you go and make a coaltion? That's not negative propaganda there or trying to start a flame war, that is factual.

Actually, I believe I sent you a PM to say how hypocritical it is of you when you got all huffy about some supposed non-existant coalition the first time I ran against KIA. Should try reading it sometime.

I think TUP and UKRP have basically just screwed themselves over. I feel they will lose a lot of support based on this decision, and the PCP and MDU will be set to benefit.
Although it might be beneficial for this election, I think in the long run its really good news for the PCP and the MDU.

I am strongly opposed to this ridiculous attack on democracy in terms of the health of eUK politics, but on the whole believe it will benefit my own party.

'Plus, by taking away their candidate you're effectively forcing them to vote UKRP' We didn't take away their candidate Squiddy stepped down (I think) and Tommy I thought that the only reason you are on the ballot is that Squiddy pulled out? Surely then you should be supporting the coalition?

Dish, I made this to make the public better informed. Its nothing to do with 'temper tentrums'

Bob, this is completely one sided and incorrect in many ways. inb4 if you intend to inform the public as an honest person, should present both sides truthfully. No?

Well, I'll hand it to Bob that this is significantly better than it could have been. While it is heavily slanted against the coalition, it at least attempts to lay out the other side of the argument.

So tell me whats not accurate then.....

And bonus points if you can do it without starting a petty flame war...

Plus, by taking away their candidate you're effectively forcing them to vote UKRP' We didn't take away their candidate Squiddy stepped down (I think) and Tommy I thought that the only reason you are on the ballot is that Squiddy pulled out? Surely then you should be supporting the coalition?

he wants a better euk and only having 2 of the big three with candidates isn't going to do that all it's going to do is make elections dull and boring

Isn't it? It's going to allow Dish to finish his reforms and allow Squiddy time to create his policies that when implemented will probably be amazing.

"Isn't it? It's going to allow Dish to finish his reforms and allow Squiddy time to create his policies that when implemented will probably be amazing."

Irrelevent, neither needs to be president to pass reforms........

And a fair portion of Dishes proposals were adapted from ideas put forward by others. i.e. FDs business gifting scheme, Revivial of Stans TfL idea etc.

/\/\/\ Not intended to be an attack

no squiddy pulling out didnt give me the ballot at all - we're still not backed by a top 5. and even if it had, i wouldn't agree with it.

Then how are you running?

Bob, while it may not be intended that way, at least I took the time to actually DO them, no? Should we have waited for Stan to find time in his schedule, or FD to have his baby in three months?

etc etc etc

Once again, blame your own inactivity (general statement, not you specifically), not that of someone who actually got off his hump. If Bremer truly had all these great ideas, why has he done nothing about them? Even right now, he has yet to propose anything to Commons. So if you want to talk about not "needing Presidency" the same could be said for the PCP as well.

HE's proposed nothing to the commons and he's running as president? ludicrous

indiekid, i have no idea, think its a bug im not meant to be on the ballotpaper.

yeah because dish isn't being subjective there at all

'HE's proposed nothing to the commons and he's running as president? ludicrous '

I don't normally bring players' ages into things, but you haven't even been around for the majority of Bremer's work, not everyone is an ideas man anyway.

Oh and I'd just like you to know that I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing or that I'm being anti Dish here. In fact I think he's the best president this eCountry has had bar Kaleb and KIA and if I hadn't have carelessly voted in the eIndo election I would have voted Dish today. And that is no offence intended towards Bremer, it's just I put country before party.

My problem with the coalition is: Squiddy's conduct, the lack of democracy due to elections effectively being planned for four months and the apparent idea of party before country.

You are right about the age thing but surely a president needs to have good ideas? And surely you need confidence to post your ideas and it is good to have a president that is confident

Well I agree with you there Indie, which is why I would have voted Dish today, I'll say it again that is no slight on Bremer, I just think Dish is a top president.

I feel this is also an absolutely disgraceful by far the worst thing i have seen in politics in the eUK. Firstly the PCP did try to align with TUP for the last 4 terms and that would have been a temporary alliance in which certain terms would arranged. You are effectively granting TUP the february/march elections and there is no way out unless you pay 200gold. A party endorsement is the party saying that they think the other party is the best for the eUK, so you think that TUP is best for February how in hell would you know what is going on in between now and then. Lets say Squiddy said he wanted to take over the world ban minorities and generally be an arse (not saying he is) would the UKRP still support TUP.

Although I would prefer it if PCP were in charge but i thought Dish was doing a good job and respected him as a political adversary well that went down the bloody drain what in hell were you thinking. What if your not CP candidate in February the new guy is forced by this contract to give up his chance at becoming president. You probably would have won anyway instead you do this electoral overkill and make the next 4 months of erepublik political largely pointless.

Cannot express my anger, disgust and how ashamed i am that the some parties have come to this, at least not without getting banned for extreme swearing.

I feel compelled to make a statement regarding this situation.

I don't know about the TUP Party Forums, but Jerry posted a poll regarding the Coalition in the UKRP Forums. It might sound rude, but it doesn't make sense that "people who aren't on the forums weren't given a chance to vote." If they want to vote, they'd be on the forums. The UKRP (forums UKRP) voted YES.

I think the main reason for this coalition is simple. Neither party wanted ______ in office. And in that way, the interests of both party were the same. He just hasn't had the activity in the past month that is necessary of the Prime Minister position.

And I won't argue with anyone about this, so don't try

I am shocked by the allegations brought forward here. I just recently joined the TUP, and only read this article afterward. Not saying I will leave just because of this incident (as no one is perfect, even in e-politics), but this seems like a very cynical move on the part of the parties involved.

Aw, thanks Widds 🙂

Should come home, we've got a lot going on 😉

any dis-heartened TUP members should leave

Dish I think you're a good president, doesn't mean I don't think you and your party and TUP have made a disgusting move here.

But no I won't be coming back. Tell me, would you have made this coalition if Ip was standing for president? Or Stan? Or perhaps even myself?

Is this purely an Anti Bremer thing?

I will say that there has been some anti-Bremer sentiments in the TUP leading up to the election, but mostly, Squiddy felt that by agreeing to this he was ensuring the future success of the eUK and the TUP.

Personally, I don't agree with the coalition as written, but since it's over and done with, everyone should just start working with it. We get that a lot of people are angry about this. But that doesn't mean that there is no room in government for the PCP anymore. I think you guys have great ideas. I sure hope that the PCP won't let this coalition affect their input into the government. If this coalition does, in fact, ruin democracy in the eUK, I'll be the first to move out.

I'm sorry mate it's already ruined democracy, all Squiddy has done is ensure the future success of UKRP and TUP NOT the country. For all you know PCP could have a brilliant candidate in a months time but they won't get in thanks to this. The amount of time stipulated is madness, Squiddy's out for the party and that's not material for president, you have to be out for democracy and the country as well.

Oh and can Squiddy/Jerry/Dish answer my previous question please.

Its not the coalition that bugs me it is the way it is giving TUP the election in Feb/March I really don't see why UKRP did this. They would probably have this election anyway and throwing away the Feb/March elections seems simply silly.

right one big big thing

WE DON'T HAVE TO VOTE FOR THE UKRP GUY OR VICE VERSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you put up Abraham Lincon incarnate and the UKRP put up a monkey that has been strategically shaved guess what! TUP will support the UKRP guy but the active members ie the ones who actually vote will vote for you. So please stop getting angry and complaining you are making yourselves look as bad as you are trying to paint us.

Frankly, standing back about 200 feet from this I'd say that none of this would be happening if the parties fielded citizens who conveyed their plans in such a way as to convince the people of their value. Seriously, if everyone is so outraged at what is transpiring then they will just switch to PCP or any place else they feel isn't "corrupt". I frankly fail to see the public outrage on this coming from the other side. There's a reason Dish has been President, people respect his policies for eUK. I'd join any party that hews close to my ideals for government, and right now the UKRP are doing that, however if the PCP puts forward a policy or person who I believe in and support their policies I will change parties. Everyone keeps treating it as though it's the meeting of the three estates!

AUSTRALIA LIBERATED

Calling all Australian refugees in eUK

The homeland has been liberated and Zaney has been re-elected Prime Minister. All Australians should to return home. However it is'nt advisable if you're eYoung or poor because there are no jobs below q3. And bring plenty of food with you as there is a severe food shortage.

If you are a successful business person or very rich, the motherland can do with your help by donating to the government or starting business.

Just want to say that I personally was against this, because I believe Dish/UKRP would win the election anyway.

It failed the first UKRP vote, then it was revised and a new vote was put up in which the YES won.
I respect that vote.

But just because I was against this doesn't mean I'll be running off to join the PCP.

Also the PCP members moaning about this should look in the mirror, they have tried unsucessfully to form a coalition with TUP against UKRP for the last 4 months.
Having said that though I do understand some of your reasons for disliking this, but stop trying to score points against TUP & UKRP again with your anti-PR campaign.

'they have tried unsucessfully to form a coalition with TUP against UKRP for the last 4 months'

Umm, did you see the post by Hassan, who was PP of TUP for 2 terms where he said THAT PCP did not try a coalition? That's just BS by Dish, please, go ahead and post your evidence.

Squiddy that is the wrong answer, so basically you really made the deal to ensure TUP get an election victory rather than misgivings about Bremer, so if a brilliant candidate who would do a better job than you stood forward from PCP you would still put yourself and your party ahead of him so that you could get president.

Disgusting.

when are you leaving us Widdows? how much longer does this need to go on for?

The active people who look at what a candidate has said make up most of the voters, if your candidate is obviously better then guess what, we will vote for him. we still want the best for the eUK and thats a fact

'we still want the best for the eUK and thats a fact'

I would say that is a highly contentious, biased statement that is not at all correct. And last I looked when I'm leaving doesn't concern you.