The Bastion: Government and Voting Laws
Spir Tus
In this column, The Bastion, I will take a look at the political system of a country/community and I will expose the conspicuous things. This column is written from my point of view, the view of a noob in eRepublik and the community. Probably I will miss a lot of facts and legislation, but this is how I see things and how noobs who want to learn to know the community and the game, will see things. The aim of this colum is to enlighten people, give them food for thought and make them aware of certain worrisome situations.
This first article of this series (hopefully) is about the Upcoming Law Change in eNL. The focus of this article will be on the representative democracy (which is doubtful), especially on the voting laws. The content of this article may contain sensitive information, but there are no media legislation in eNL (not yet
😛) so I will give you all the information I have gathered. This will contain information about voting in congress, debates in congress and the Law Book of the eNetherlands. These sections are accessible for all eNL citizens, and I will publish this on eRepublik to support transparency and thereby hopefully put pressure on the community and the system (and getting answers on my questions xD)
Who is the Government?
As a new player in eNL, the first thing you see is the map, where half of the surface of the Netherlands is occupied by Poland. This situation is good for the activity for new players, who will immediately fight for their country. But by some new players, like me and I hope a lot others, questions will rise. Why is the Netherlands occupied by Poland, Who is responsible for this misery and Why is the government not doing anything. A closer look will learn the government is trying to solve all political problems, including the occupation by Poland. But it will raise new questions. Who is the government? It's hard to find out for a new player who is part of the government and who isn't. Of course, you need a little bit political knowledge to understand the differences between government and congress, but if you know the difference, and have a lot of political interest, you'll see a page with the president of eNL, and the ministers. A closer look to the law will learn this isn't the government. Chapter III, article 1.1: The Government consists of the Country President, the Vice President, the Ministers, and the State Secretaries. According to the Law Book of eNL, it seems there are more people then on the country page in eRepublik. Also State Secretaries seems to be part of the government, so the next question is: Who are the State Secretaries? The next part is very confusing. On the Cabinet page of the eNL forum, is a form of all Cabinet Members. On this form, there are not only Presidents, Ministers and State Secretaries, But also Partners, Commanders, Representatives and Advisers.
I assume these people are not part of the government, because the law should be the leading source of information about the composition of the government. In the near past there were debates about the role of the Advisers. According to that debate, Members of government are not allowed to become CoC, without resigning. The debate was about the question of Advisers can be CoC and Adviser at the same time. Congress decided to maintain the Advisers as no part of the government. Obviously, they still remain on the Cabinet form, to make it simple for new players who want to understand the government.
It looks like there is a lot of uncertainty about the government. That's a problem that needs to be solved, and congress is planning to rewrite the Law, so there is more clarity about this kind of things. I will evoke congress, to not only pay attention to the rewriting of the Law, but also, together with the whole community, take a close look to the whole system and the organisation of information. Another problem, is the terminology of the law here above. Cabinet and Government are two terms for two different things. It has to be clear what is the government (In RL in NL, the king and the ministers) and the cabinet (In RL in NL, the ministers and the state secrataries), because this distinction will be important for other laws. This will lead to my next point.
Voting Laws
The fact that there is no clarity about the government, has big consequences on the casual decisionmaking process in eNL. According to the Law Book, Chapter II, article 1.8, Members of the Government (President, Vice-president, Ministers and State Secretaries, according to the same law), have all rights mentioned above, except for the rights mentioned in Articles 1.3 and 1.4. This means they have the following rights:
1.1. The right to open debates in the Debating section of Congress.
1.2. The right to read and write in the Debating section of Congress.
1.5. The right to start discussions, read and write in the Private section of Congress.
They don't have the rights in Articles 1.3 and 1.4, which are:
1.3. The right to start votes in the Voting section of Congress.
1.4. The right to vote on proposals in the Voting section of Congress.
This means, government members can NOT Vote or start votes. If we take a look at the past voting procedures, something disturbing is going on. Members of Government (excluding the CP, he has the right to vote) are voting on every voting procedure, I have seen. This include votings for more then a half year ago, and i think there are a lot more. This are only the voting procedures on the eNL forum. All the votings, that have been held in at least, the past half year, are not legitimate. In the past couple of votings, there are no striking consequences. There is obviously a big difference between the real results and the results congress has been using, but no differences in conclusions (apart maybe from votings where an absolute majority of 75% is needed or something). If we take a look at the votings of a half year ago, there will be also differences in conclusions.
This is a disturbing conclusion. The causes of this misconception, is the fact people can be Congress Members and Members of Government at the same time. For instance, the current goverment consist of lancer450, NoTie112, epix, Willem the Conquerer, Athena the Great, Lord Jale, Odan, Tim Veltkamp, GEN. DE LA REY, Aries Prime and The Valeyard. Only lancer450, NoTie112 and epix are not a congress member. All the rest is member of congress and of the government and making the laws and supervising themselves.
However, some remarks have to be made. First, some would say the voting procedures are legitimate, because some Members of Government, are also Congress members, and Congress Members have the right to vote. This is true, but the conclusion will be that the law is not well written and the Members of Government are supervised by themselves. Secondly, some people could say there is no connection between government and congress. This is also true. In the Law Book you can't find any connections of relations between the congress and the government. Congress only makes the laws, and the Government is only in charge of the daily tasks. However, in-game and in the law, there's a relation between congress and government. There is a possibility for Impeacments of the CP, the government etc. This is the only connection, and has nothing to do with the relation between congress and government (like the supervising function).Thirdly, this whole article is based on voting at the forum of eNL. Because I'm no member of Congress myself, I don't know how voting in-game is like. I don't know if the Members of the Government who are also Members of Congress, can vote ingame.
Concluding, a remake of the Law Book is neccesary. The people who will plunge into this task, need to consider more then only the badly written laws, like the system in general. Do we want to have Members of Government, who are also members of Congress? Voting against the government, will always lead to advantageous voting results. In my opinion, Congress members have to supervise the government, to promote transparancy and againt corruption. Congress has failed this job in the last couple of months. It shouldn't have been me, a noob with 9 days experience, to discover this weird situation. At last, there are a lot of other consequences. For instance, the CoC and vCoC are voting as well, and according to the law they can't. I won't deal with the other consequences. The article will be too long if I need to describe them as well.
If you have any questions or comments on the article, please leave them below, or send me a PM.
Yours Sincerly,
Spir Tus
Owner of A Bastion of Truth
Comments
tl;dr
Voted. Some interesting insights and I appreciate you taking the time to thoughtfully express your point of view on this. As one of the representatives to the committee that will be taking on the task of rewriting the Law Book, I will do my best to keep this is mind during the process of rewriting it.
We don't have enough active citizens to have a clear cut between the government and congress. But it really hasn't been an issue either.
That's because congress is a little bit big for a community like eNL. How many active players are there? We have 38 Congress Members. Actually, we only have two regions, so you could lower the seats in congress, and get rid of the double government and Congress. Then you have still all active players in government/congress, if that's what you want.
Even with 20 congressman you won't be able to get rid of doubles and have active people in congress and government.
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Why? With 20 Congress members, you have 20 active citizens in politics without any position in Congress or Government. So they can take a seat in Congress (if a congress member resigns to go into government) or in Government.
Right now, we have an authorian government. If Congress would like to replace the government, it's impossible. 8 votes against guarenteed.
Problem is, we don't have many political-active citzens..
Yeah, but we have 38 congress members, and it seems they are not all policial active. Question is: Why do we have so many congress members, if they are not active. If they are active, then there's no problem. The amount of people active in politics will stay the same. Instead of 38 CM, and 11 Government people, who are also CM (41 total), there will be 20 CM, and 11 in government. With no double function, and with reduction of Congress, we need less political active citizens.
we had 4 regions last congress elections that's why we have 38 (should have been 40) congress members. with a small community like we have it is almost impossible that part of congress don't also takes a position in government, if we excluded gov members from serving in congress and vice versa we would probably have major problems since that could potentially exclude our most talented and experienced people. not to mention that on average out of 40 members 10-20 are active on a regular basis. 10-15 are barely active. and 5-10 aren't active at all and just do it for the kick/medal/gold.
Activity is a problem, I know. You have to make a choice between an active, authoritarian government and active congress, or a more democratic system with a little bit less active congress.
For example, the blacklist voting. The official results were 6 "yes, 14 "no" and 8 "Neutral". Without the votes of the people with double functions, the voting would be 5 "yes", 10 "no" and 4 "neutral". Still there are almost 20 votes of Congress members without double functions. Activity can be a problem, but I think it's not the reason we should have an authoritarian government.
I think the rewrite of the law book, must be started quickly. You said things I just didn't know, and I read the law book myself! I'm flabbergasted!
I'm working on it, started a law reform comittee, and waiting for a DemNL representative 😉
We're discussing it on our forum! I hope djirtsdew can tell present our representative as soon as possible
yes he's in, my own party is voting on it's representative at this moment.
V+S, nice description of the current situation.
Situation which has been apparent ever since the existence of our nation, in fact 😉.
''Only lancer450, NoTie112 and epix are not a congress member.''
Doing it right \o/
Interesting read. Duality sadly won't work in eRepublik (and it doesn't always work in real life either), partly because of our low population numbers, partly because of the unwritten rule that one tries to get as many titles at the same time as possible [while in real life it's an unwritten rule, sometimes by law, to not hold double positions]. It has been like that ever since our nation started. So to follow your logic, Congress has failed for years, not months hehe.
I have only focused on the last couple of months. It is a lot of work to investigate all voting procedures ever.
I'm fine with this authoritarian system, but you need to make that clear to anyone. Don't give Congress any power, if you would like to have a system where the government has all the power. So this is a sham democracy, but a very bad execution of it.
CP and congress are the only ones ingame that are able to vote. We copied that to our forum system. The other political functions are just things we made up ourselves to help the CP with his tasks. The admins stepped in and created a few masks for ministers so it looks more legit when you are talking to other players about things that concern your functions.
The main difference between the types of functions is whether you are taking actions yourself and/or making policy yourself. Advisers are not the ones that take actions, they can do the same thing they do without being mentioned, but CPs like to give them some credits for their help.
Imagine that you are in a building with several wings. You got two passes around your neck, one granting access to wing 1/2 and another with access for wing 2/3. Does that mean you will be denied access to wing 3 because you have a pass that give you access for only 1/2 as well?
The law describes the privileges that come with certain titles. And you can have more. When you are voting, you are voting as a CP or a CM, of course not as a minister.
Reasons are already given why we don't actively separate gov and congress. Keep in mind that when you do parties will just send others that vote exactly the same. And it is very likely that those CMs are less active ingame, so they will have less knowledge on the subject (voting zombies). That is not something we want as a community.
Impeachments are a last resort. It will put the nr.2 from the election forward as the new CP, not always an improvement. That why it only happens when something big happened (robbery/inactivity/etc.) In those cases the ministers normally drop their support as well.
The CoCs job is only to make sure that debating and voting happens normally and making sure the decisions are carried out. Decisions that sometimes should be made by the CoC can easily be changed by congress afterwards. It is only this way so a lot of voting rounds can be bypassed.
The reason right for (d)CoC are defined is because the jobs can be taken on by normal citizens. Voting rights are not given to the (d)CoC because those are only for CM's. If the (d)CoC happens to be a CM, he/she is voting as the CM not as (d)CoC.
Thank you for your comprehensive answer. I doubt the assumption of a person who switches roles. I'm not convinced people won't abuse their double role. It seems to me parties are not that important as in RL, and there are people who can think for themselves.
But I get your point. If this is the way you want to control you eCountry, I'm fine with that. It would be nice when these kind of things are clear.
I think, with your answer in mind, a (d)CoC may vote (even though in the law this is forbidden), if he's also a member of Congress. He can't vote if he's not a member of Congress. Is that right?
The debate about these double roles isn't new. It emerges every now and then. Every time we conclude that it will cripple our congress if we separate them. The amount of active debaters is currently just too low.
It will hurt us more in quality that it benefits us in democracy.
This has actually been debated since the beginning, and I'm very much for it, but it's simply not practical in current circumstances.
vote, quite impressive.
Voted, its impressive but really we cant change it, congress will cripple.