Spain Invades France - is this Germany v. Sweden Revisted?
PigInZen
So great, Spain attacked France late last night leaving the US in a peculiar position foreign policy-wise. We're once again between a rock and a hard place and left with no real good positive positions to take.
Spain is one of our longest-termed allies and played a vital role when we were occupied by Russia, Portugal, Indonesia and Hungary. Spain's always been there to defend our regions, supply us with iron, give our land workers employment, hell, they even loaned us a significant amount of gold during WWIII that we desperately needed. And let us not forget that Spain is an EDEN member and we just joined that alliance.
France on the other hand is a nation with whom we haven't had good long-term relations: they attacked us during WWIII as a blocking maneuver, we invaded them several months back in an adventure named "French Toast" and as recently as July we attempted to PTO them. But France did leave PEACE GC over several outstanding issues including differences over Hungary's attack on Austria, hastening it's demise. France recently signed a peace treaty with the US and has made overtures of become more friendly towards the US and other EDEN nations.
This situation is a downside of permanent MPPs and alliances. Much like we did during the Scrabman administration the US will be forced to take a neutral stance in the current French-Spanish war. The reasons given will be obvious and logical: that Spain is a longtime ally, they're a member of EDEN, we get much of our iron from Spain, this is an issue between France and Spain alone, and that we cannot go risking our current friendships with longtime allies on potential future friendships with nations that have been traditional allies. Fair enough, it makes sense to me.
Do you want a bite of this?
But it still just smells like crap. Sorry, but the US is being served a shit sandwich here and we're going to have to take a bite. The end result will be to alienate the French from us and push them back into the sphere of their traditional PEACE GC allies. The thaw in relations that had been occurring recently will reverse. This is a bad thing for the US.
We already know what we'll gain (or keep) by choosing this route. We also know what we'll lose with France. But what of the other more nebulous gains and losses associated with choosing neutrality? Time and time again we've found it much too easy to not take a serious stance in opposition to our allies attacking neighbors with whom we have developing relationships. Before I go further, allow me to issue this disclaimer:
***I am not proposing that we dump Spain as an ally. I am not criticizing the current policies of the Josh Frost administration or his Secretary of State, Cerb. This is not a campaign article. This article is meant to get us thinking outside of the framework we've been operating in since the spring of 2009.***
An Activist Approach
The US stands to lose a good deal of international prestige if we stay on the sidelines in this conflict. It's easy for wargamers to think of power in raw terms - how much damage we can deal on a battlefield. There is another power that we can leverage in conflict, however, and that's soft power. Soft power is linked to prestige; it is all about our image in the world and how we make use of it. We can avoid losing prestige and use our soft power to improve our standing by taking some public steps:
1. Offer to negotiate a settlement between Spain and France.
2. Publicly declare that the US military will not be fighting on either side in this war (as long as that doesn't violate our commitments within the EDEN framework; I believe we're safe here)
3. Publicly free citizens to choose for themselves which side to support.
4. Publicly denounce the attack as detrimental to the future development of European comity.
5. Publicly state WHY the US believes that improved relations with France are important to us. (This should be easy, they're a neighbor, they've made overtures to us about improving relations in kind, they've publicly disowned their former ally Hungary, and we have serious Real Life ties to France).
6. Recruit other EDEN nations to join us in the court of public opinion.
By establishing what are in essence permanent alliances with certain nations the US is tying its foreign policy to that of our allies. When our allies take action that action is transferred to us whether we like it our not; as go our allies, so goes the US. Either we stop signing MPPs with nations that take actions that negatively impact US relations with other nations or we convince our allies to take our opinion into account. Since we're not going to abandon our MPP with Spain we obviously need to do a better job of arguing our position both privately between governments and publicly.
Comments
First Denied. Whatevermaxxxx.
...
Jesh 😒
True 🙂
This is indeed a time to flex that diplomatic muscle. Cerb, Bradley Reala, and Frost should be on this already!
Hopefully, we can negotiate peace brtween a long-standing ally and a newly-established one.
Great article. Voted/Already Subbed!
I disagree that you'll push France into PEACE's arms; they don't want them either, after all they've done against their allies, they're happy to see them invaded too.
On the other hand did you see that Israel attacked Greece activating the alliance the USA has with Greece? This way there is a trade embargo between the USA and Israel 🙂
@Necrosis - I disagree with you. There are articles in the Hungarian press about units that will go tonight to help France. I could not say that I am not happy seeing this attack, as this will be a good wake up call for France. Many Hungarians will go and fight helping France.
As long as Frost isn't spotted with the BH for France I think we will be OK.
*cough* Scrabman *cough*
Germany and Sweden were in the same alliance (or almost)
Spain and France do not share an alliance and have attacked each other since Beta.
Just notice that by attacking France, Spain have not trigered any friendly MPP as happened in the Swedish conflict.
I cannot see how this attack surprised you 😒
We almost made our inminent attack public by getting mad when you signed peace with them.
The decission of our Government may seem not thoghtful enough, but our citizens were asking for this all day, and in fact they were right, we needed to punish the French, not just for their conquer of Spain, they are still spaming our media, they even joined our IRC channel to troll... when you are in a lower position you cant behave that way, and well, the perfect moment was this one, we wont grow relations with Indonesia, but their aid is something that will help a lot in the battles..
And one last thing, the USA didnt even ask our Government when you signed a peace treaty with France in exchange of nothing, and we didnt blame you (too much) for that... respect amongst allies is needed in this kind of situations
Pokerman, Zoli, thanks for your comments. Interesting to get your perspective on this. Spain really doesn't have much to gain from this attack; France has no vital resources for Spain to take, it's only about revenge. And the differences between Sweden/Germany are there, yeah, not every situation is going to be identical. I was taking the the argument of what it does to US foreign policy as being similar, not the actual details.
I would really like to see more EDEN cooperation in foreign policy if it's truly going to be collective. Otherwise we're just going to have more of these issues (cough cough Poland/Peru cough).
>>There are articles in the Hungarian press about units that will go tonight to help France. I could not say that I am not happy seeing this attack, as this will be a good wake up call for France. Many Hungarians will go and fight helping France.
Fair enough, I was unaware of that, haven't bothered reading many medias yet, too hungover e_e.
The US should be supporting its EDEN allies, not holding out to see who is winning and then choose sides.
France = PEACE, it never left, it was the other way around, Hungary, Indonesia and the other minions left PEACE to become rogue.
When we talk of PEACE now, we are talking about something completely different than what existed during the invasion of North America.
Although I would prefer if eAustria (my country) joined Sol now that Sol is a global alliance.
I can't believe you would even type this? Spain fought side by side with us. France occupied us..... still not enough? France started getting friendly once they were surrounded by enemies they had helped to destroy days before. Still need more? France is part of Peace. There never was an e😜eace, just tactic. We were over run because Peace had more brain power and ideas to throw us off then we did. Guess what they still do, how many times will you fall for their tactics. Every event that has taken place that gives the appearance of Peace breaking up, has in fact benefited Peace. We basically stooped hitting them because "they are crumbling" and the whole time Hungarian strategists are sitting there laughing at us thinking "this shit is actually working?" and adjusting his timer for the next time 50 US regions are occupied. Fooled once same on you, fooled twice, shame on me. Stand with our real allies, otherwise we are better off joining Peace.
Spain has every right to conquer France. There relation to France is much like our relationship to the eUK. Stop trying to defend them, they would not have been reliable allies anyway.
Notice how Indonesia now considers France to be an enemy, and since Hungary is a big ally of Indonesia we know how Hungary feels.
Hungary attacked Austria, when Austria HAD AN MPP with France.
GO SPAIN!
Do Not Panic, If I win in eBiH, our mighty army will defeat eSpain. 🙂
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/ne-kandidatura--1066061/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/ne-k[..]1/20
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@PigInZen, I agree with you we should have more cooperation in foreign policy in EDEN. That's why we, all the allies, should have been informed about your signing of a peace treaty with France. You didn't and even though we didn't like it we respected your decission. And even though we didn't like it we still consider you one of our best allies. After all we've both suffered through WWIII and finally won.
Now, with the Poland/Peru thing, let's all remember than Polish government official position was NOT supporting the Peruvian TO. Therefore, helping Argentina and Peru was not against any of our allies interests. Now some polish people are really mad at us, and that shows that they really supported that TO, despite their official position. Let me tell you this: I'm against all TOs, I will fight any TO attempt, as I fought against our sad attempts in France.
that sandwich looks tasty
WE MUST HELP ESPAGNA
Their relation to France is nothing like our relationship with UK Terd; For one, France did not betray Spain to PEACE and is only in PEACE as a result of our invasion of them.
Also, PEACE as we see it now, is PEACE without the grand movers of WWIII. Also, I need to comment on the gross stupidity of Spains actions from a diplomatic standpoint. If we seize the opportunity to invade France after they made the concious effort to move away from Hungary--mostly with our glee and cajoling,--then we will never again be able to pull a country out of the Hungarian Sphere of influence. No country on their side is going to forsake Hungary, Serbia, and Russia if they know imperialist EDEN countries are staring at the days left on their MPP's with frenzied anticipation.
Does anyone else wonder at EDEN taking a position on Peru and invading France within days of our binding ourselves by the contract? We are being used.
Time for operation French Toast: Part Deux?
USa/ spain/ poland/indonesia and hungary to take aquitaine? You want that?
humm .... i don't think USA is happy to fight with their big enemies.
The choice is difficult? Now, i can say one thing. In this game, you make an opposition to a big country... you lost friends... but you can see really which country has real values to the justice.
Good luck for all fighters, but please respect before all... don't insult and don't say we are superior. It's a game, we are all imperfect. Thanks
Spain FTW! http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/spain-or-france--1066553/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/spai[..]/1/20
Vive l'eFrance!!!
this situation is entirely the fault of france's president. Now, thanks to her vision of foreign affairs, france got no allies in the world. and one doesn't have to look careful, nor for a long time, to find enemies in this game.
Did you forgot when eFrance conquered all spain 3 months ago?
you just joined EDEN...
Spain is one of yours best ally...
France was attacking you in the past...
AND YOU WANT TO STAY NEUTRALS AND OPEN NEGOTIATIONS??!!
Are you sick? Allies helps you when you are in need so now you MUST help your ally. If not it will = USA the worst ally ever.
Does anyone remember how France conquered both Spain and Canada? They did it claiming a blocking tactic of Operation: French Toast as their precedent.
After taking away our sovereignty, they claimed they'd the rights to Quebec-- to liberate them of their anglo oppressors.
So let me make this clear: fuck the French. I support Spain, our friend. I'd ask that we support them as they supported us.
Rob has it right. We should have never signed a pack with France. Being a middle of the road ally is useless. We need to attack France ASAP!!!!!
canada signed a peace treay with France too.....it was shamful
Go spain kill froggy!!!
what a sanduits was that biax
So, US betrays its allies yet again? LOL
LOL @ Serb Troll
GO SPAIN
OK, let's keep the flaming to a minimum, shall we? My point is that continued conflict with France is now only about retribution and revenge, not about strategy. Certainly not about collective strategy.
And as far as the US being the worst ally ever, well, that's certainly debatable but we do try our damnedest to follow through on our commitments. This war won't affect our relations with the Spanish if both the US and Spain make a point of not letting it do so. What it should affect is how both nations conduct foreign policy, and EDEN's approach as well.
it's so typical for the US.. forget whatever your allies did for you and start "taking a neutral position" and "codemning the attack" when you would have an opportunity to repay them.
BUAHAAAAHAAHAAHA
That's right, we just joined EDEN, and you take a position on peru with but a few days afterward and invade France. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why EDEN went aggressive 3 days after we signed the contract and not three days before. Nor does it take a genius to realized why you felt our signing the thing was so important you needed to threaten us with ultimatums for if we didn't. EDEN sees us as a tool to be used against those she wants to conquer, or at least to be bound and kept out of the way of her imperialist dreams. No with the US saftly locked away from her values, you EDEN feels safe to pursue its empire. The countries that are first to suffer arn't the ones that continue their aggression like Hungary, its the ones that turned their back on it.
Further, our Allies care nothing for how the actions in Peru and France damage our credibility or long term survival. I wonder if EDEN protected us out of friendship or as an investment. I for one am worried that EDEN speaks to us like PEACE spoke to France; and, we all know how that turned out.
we'll appreciate your neutrality if possible, we sign peace with you and don't want to lost that. We want to leave Hungary and Indonesia for their imperialism and extremism but see a lot of similarity in the spanish,hungarian and indonesian behaviour. Even we saw some hungarian and indonesian tank fight for Spain
USA must help SPAIN, as SPAIN helped USA before.
When has FRANCE helped USA? What do you owe them? NUTHIN!!!
Let's crush FRANCE!!!
Every good politician remembers history. So, recall wars of past and decide which country you should keep with.
"What it should affect is how both nations conduct foreign policy"
I thought that was obviuos since you signed peace with France, not now.
Rob has it right. We need to attack France ASAP!
who cares what France thinks, its very simple.
Spain long time friend and ally
France invader who killed your dog
on a side not spain nearly has one province so efrance isn`t as large as it use to be...lmao
Is there a back-stabbing achievement medal, it seems so suited for the US?