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eUK should man up and take down BDP

In the past, when I was talking with some people on this subject, some people sounded as they are secretly afraid of Prince Harry or however you call him and some people sounded as hypocrites 🙂

Voting irregularities in the UKPP? Nah. Don't believe it. 😉

Bad luck, Willy. Better luck next time (if there is a next time...)

So you're attacking one party for sending members to vote while at the same time praising others for sending people to vote? Look, I'm no fan of Willy or his ilk but nobody's hands are clean in this by now. It's two sides fighting against each other, neither has any moral high ground imo

I disagree entirely
To suggest UKPP and King Willy/BDP are as bad as one another, hence a plague on both their houses is exactly what happened 18 months or so ago with TUP. People laughed when BigAnt/Dapper and co PTO'd TUP and blamed TUP - there were accusations from NE/V that TUP had multis etc and a perception was created that TUP and NE/V were as bad as one another. Look what happened - BigAnt runs off with all our money and we are nearly pto'd by Serbs.

TUP being PTO'd was them paying the price for their arrogance over the preceding two years. They themselves had laughed when mwc PTO'd UKPP only to be outraged when it happened to them. People were fed up with TUP acting like their betters.

I'm not suggesting that Willy winning in UKPP is in any way desirable, but I don't think this 'side' should be claiming any kind of moral high ground and/or the support of UKPP members- its a proxy election battle between four or five parties.

Ok, well let's leave TUP out of the comparison.
How many (genuine) members of UKPP support King Willy? A handful at most. If you had a genuine battle between 2 groups of people within a party for supremacy then fair enough it's their issue/problem, but that's clearly not the case. So it's still not 2 equal sides because there are considerably more people coming in to support King Willy from other parties and if he ever gets control of the party he will do what he did before - remove all the genuine long term members from Congress and put stooges in and that could affect all of us!

@Addaway

Could I point out that mwcerberus never actually PTO'd UKPP - he got the most votes because he was the one who messaged all the members canvasing for votes. See this artictle at the time explaining why it wasn't:

http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/the-truth-about-the-ukpp-pto-2261742/1/20

Sure, he did muck around with the constant name changing, but it was hardly a PTO. Laughable was the fact that people claimed mwcerberus was assisted by the Dental Corp to get one of their members as leader while overlooking the fact the runner up was also a member of the unit.

I think where TUP paid the price is that when other parties were under threat, the leaders of TUP often (though not always) refused to send members over on the basis that the PTO was all a big trick to get them to move members over and allow the PTOers to attack TUP instead - ie the PTO of another party was a diversion to the real target. When TUP then became a target themselves, the other parties refused to help with a certain "you reap what you sow" attitude. When Moirs and Keers etc threw their toys out of the pram, one of them left with the parting comments of "By betraying TUP, you've destroyed the eUK - you just don't know it yet". (it might have been Keers as I recall a load of "Tears for Keers" and "Everybody wants to rule the world" postings).

I think where the non-Ajay side can take the higher moral ground (or at least not go as low) is that the prelimery voting gives a certain level of legit status to whoever won it to be leader. When you have Ajay then turning around calling the vote illegal and that he will do what he can to remove those who don't agree with him, there is a certain understanding as to why people from other parties may move if dozens of people from The Dapper party are seen moving into UKPP and voting. Although both sides are as bad as each other, the actions of the anti-Ajay is more legit insofar the actions are seen as an ATO defence.

@Mr Knee
I had you down as a long standing member of UKPP who would naturally oppose any hostile actions against your party. yet from comments like "I think where the non-Ajay side can take the higher moral ground (or at least not go as low)" and "Although both sides are as bad as each other" you seem to be standing aloof from your party and are implying equal legitimacy should be given to both sides? I'm sort of wondering therefore why the rest of the eUK community should help you next month? Once you accept another 'alleged' point of view no matter how ridiculous you give it legitimacy.

Naturally I am opposed to any hostile takeover. What I mean is, the fact both sides have imported votes means that whoever wins any given election is tarnished by the fact shenanigans have taken place.

As I write above, the fact Mad Paul won the preliminary vote means he has a legit mandate as leader and I think most will.agree with the outcome.

(I'm probably not.explaining it very well. My comment was less about the result but more of a condemnation of the need for.all.the shenanigans)

I

ok, fair enough. But I can see a danger of us repeating what happened to TUP and subsequently the eUK 18 months ago if we don't make sure of the facts.

Adastros, your comment ignores the fact that by the time TUP was PTO'd, the ones who were considered arrogant had moved to other countries, and TUP was under new management...

So next time out, we won't bother with ATO measures. We let Willy win, he produces an abysmal congress list of cronies and BDP yes-men. He runs for CP again, having once more disenfranchised any who disagree with him in the party. By this time we may have a RBL-led revolution to restore democracy (with the determination bonus, it's a threat), which will allow the BDP and Willy's UKPP yes-men to import more voters which may - not to scaremonger or anything - may lead to a victory for him in the CP election.

Just a thought.

I just object to neil pontificating and getting on his high horse over BDP moving people in. Both sides are doing it.

Difference is we're open about it. Willy and the BDP/RBL aren't.

".....BDP moving people in. Both sides are doing it."
Again I disagree - how can UKPP bringing people in to support a candidate of their choosing be the same as BDP sending people to support someone in another party.

Plus unless you are now disputing the perceived wisdom of the claim that King Willy is Ajay Bruno then for 'both sides to be doing the same' who are the multis and multimakers in UKPP - Neil? Mad Paul?

And I re-iterate the intended meaning of my original point about TUP - even if we accept TUP brought it on themselves by previous failings 'a plague on both their houses' demonises the innocent and undermines us all.

Not sure that no-one has the moral high ground, but I do agree that getting outraged at BDP sending their members to UKPP to vote in the same article that thanks UKRP and ESO for sending their members to UKPP to vote is just ridiculous.

On the other hand, I think the fact that the UKPP's primary ended in a landslide victory for Mad Pauly shows that King William has no support among the general UKPP membership, and the only reason the elections are so close is because he imports votes every month, which is why the other right-thinking parties help oppose him.

TL😉R - Fight fire with fire, or condemn the use of fire, you can't do both and still be taken seriously,

The difference is that UKPP ran an open democratic primary to dissuade vote fraud and select a candidate.

King Willy is in UKPP as a perma-PTOer. Those of us who dived in to help UKPP were helping the party according to the wishes of its members. Those coming in from BDP/RBL were doing so to support a PTOer.

If this was a genuine election between genuine UKPP candidates, I wouldn't go over and favour one side - it's their party bsns. But helping them stop a PTOer and multi-runner is a difference matter entirely.

My election might have been the last clean one as I think there were only about 45 or so votes cast with UKRP under attack by Dapper and the BDP at the time

Multis, PTOs, fake Kings, etc...why do some people play this game?

It's something to do in between boring bits of work 😉

I actually like this game, but I don't get some people's reasons for playing it 🙂

Willy4CP!

Whose wily?

Mr Coyote.

I for one think it make's a game more fun,it is obvious to everyone what is going politics turns personal so many are out to stop King William the Great becoming President of his party, many words are misused ATO and PTO lets tell it how its is:
//A group of friends in UKRP help out UKPP friends and now ESO have joined in,While King William ask's people personally to vote from other parties for him, which they do,this is game mechanics he always has much support in his own party.//
King William didn't win that is what you wanted now go be happy for another month.
But don't forget Winston4Change!

Winnie you're a bit out of the loop, approx. 8-12 people aren't classed as the majority of the party. The main uproar started when people screen-shotted pm's from Willy offering to pay them for their votes if they voted for him, and then we had the attempt at buying support from another party by offering multiple congress seats to them for their support. He wouldn't need to do this if he had real support within the party, but by acting and being a complete tool he's alienated the majority of actual active members.

Tangbod - I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what has been going on and he himself only got back into the eUK because of the MEK fiasco - http://www.erepublik.com/en/country/United-Kingdom/citizenship/applications/approved/417

I know, just like to shed to some light on the un-enlightened one that has an established record on spinning lies. One of MEK's last gifts to us, wonder how much he, or his fellow griefers, had to pay them to be let in

\\o// ESO to PTO UKPP \\o//

ESO justifies it's ATO by saying that we did what we think was right for UKPP because they helped us with congress. We and many other people believe that willy is in it for his personal benefit and not to support his party. I also believe that VoodooMike asked UKPP if they wanted help with their ATO before sending us over.

If willy gets another term as PP he could do some damage with congress has they and BDP could tip the balance of legislations and other votes and imagine what would happen if he managed to get CP as well 😕

I imagine if he made CP nothing much would happen until our benevolent dictator (long may his name be praised) is unseated

Which Willy would undoubtedly attempt. Determination is sky high right now after months of dictatorship, and we all know that Willy isn't particularly fond of our Constitutional Monarch...

Yep. I asked IKPP first, then asked ESO to help if they wanted to.

King William the Great is a fraud and often buys votes. I have experienced it before so this is no surprise! He has tried his luck at CP before where this was discovered.