Join the new world

here's to the status quo!

If you add up all the guns provided to buy votes, does it add up to the 5,000g or even the 900g that would have ended this mess in the first place?

The country's so much better off now.

Its about 150 Gold per month in Tanks Addy, on a rough guess

Read the article - KronosQ is the eCan forum admin - nothing ends this mess until he does...

He just proved he is not capable of keeping his word and any future statements by him are now suspect

Kronos made a decision with his heart, went public with it, and appears ready to stand by it through the coming political firestorm

Rolo has expressed a desire to become a productive member of the community and return to form as a solid citizen of eCanada.

I won't be critical of either men...but I will be critical of the situation. The country is damaged, wounded, and in need of repair. Whether to pardon or not, whether to veto or not, is not the real issue here. The real issue here is, are we as a nation ready to turn the page and fix our internally war torn country at any cost, or are we prepared to continue to wage the back and forth war of words and posturing that has cost us dearly as of late.

The casualties are piling up:

3 political parties
1 respected minister
Several prominent community pillars

and last but certainly not least, the fun and camaraderie that used to be so evident in this country.

There will be no end to any of this until someone takes the high road and sets the example...the only real question is, who will it be?

his name was Pardon

Congress decided to take the high road. A mixture of many different Citizens/Party's/MU's decided to take the "High Road"

KronosQ decided he didn't like that high road and brought us back down into the mud

Poor Rolo can't be a productive member of our community because the evil Kronos does not wish to play with him? That sure sounds reasonable.

Did Rylde and Rolo not pay back some amount agreed upon a few months ago? Was not Rolo declared an eCanadian hero and patriot by a recent CP. I should really pay closer attention to this story line.

@Exalted Druid

Concerns over the forum Admins (rea😛 KronosQ) unwillingness to actually restore my access clouded the ability for that deal to consummate

also, unproductive righteous members such as olivermellors were arguing that the time period has passed and the sentence was invalid, something KronosQ could cling to as reasoning for access not being restored

Makes you wonder why there are so many people who claim to love eCanada and then are the ones most ready to argue against the peace that could heal the nation

Makes you wonder who the real terrorists are...

I don't know where I said that I would never restore access. If I did, that was a stupid thing to say. A Forum Admin doesn't get what they want to do, they do what the community wants.

I veto'd the pardon because it didn't seem that Congress was quite aware of what it was doing. It was a rushed discussion with misrepresented information. They can feel free to think it over and try again. My reasoning wouldn't be valid anymore, so I wouldn't be in a place to veto it again.

And as I said on the forums, I'm sure everyone would feel more comfortable if you showed your willingness. I know I wouldn't have a reason to object if your willingness was genuine. The upcoming CP elections would be a good time to see the willingness. Would you agree?

"[...]as truly I would have nothing to lose at that point[...]"

And that's the problem, isn't it. Why should one party risk everything? If you truly wanted to "stop your ways" there have been recourses open to you. If you already talked to Congress members, you could have offered a show of good faith, as opposed to demanding an unconditional pardon.

Sorry to say but this smells like BS.

NO comment during the proceedings, stating that you'd actually like to try this time.
But then, of course, there's the lengthy article playing the victim card. Retroactively stating how you were going to change, but not anymore...

Now, I'm still not certain whether I agree with Kronos' veto. True, I would have voted against the pardon, but that doesn't mean I think I'm the only voice that matters. However, this article definitely makes the veto seem more justified : /

And while so many took the "high road" it appears that Rolo does not know what the "high road" is or looks like. Not once has Rolo appeared to care about anything but Rolo... I missed the vote because of RL things, but I was planning to "abstain" not because I thought we should or should not pardon Rolo, but because congress went too fast from discussion to vote that there was no legistical planning. No one really appeared to think thru how to implement the pardon with our current CP.
I want to know why does everyone but Rolo (who stole a lot of gold) have to take the "high road" and he doesn't feel the need to make any serious compromises. That's why it is so hard to take Rolo seriously.

I would of still made the payment in good faith and you would be standing on very high ground now. In fact it would of put your opponents on untenable ground as far as I am concerned.

LOL. I couldn't even read the entire article, just kept laughing to myself at the situation. Rolo feels betrayed!!!! OMG the irony in it all. LMFAO

Why can't Rolo be the one to take the high road?

"Rolo has expressed a desire to become a productive member of the community and return to form as a solid citizen of eCanada."

The definition of "productive" and "community" and "solid" are all key here. In some circles, Rolo has been a tremendously productive and solid member of the community for the past year, just ask anyone who refers to him as a Canadian Hero and Patriot. Conversely, others have a different definition of the key terms here and would like him to change for their benefit.

It is easy to cast Kronos as the hater here if you are in the Hero and Patriot camp. In the final analysis, Kronos has the right to veto the decision and it will fall back to congress to get their act together and put together a vote to overturn the impeachment or run on their sword and leave it alone.

"members such as olivermellors were arguing that the time period has passed and the sentence was invalid"

???? I argued that the court COULD amend sentence to make the deal work EVEN THOUGH the period for payment had long passed. The Court opened a thread to deal with the amendment of your sentence. What happened is exactly the opposite of what you say in this instance.

However you might be right about the unproductive.
Minor point.

To complete the summary of presidencies by Addy:
"Bruck, wipe, Jacobi, wipe, Rolo, swipe, Addy, freeze, Kronos, burn.
Nothing like the smell of enapalm in the morning."

Basically, what Acacia said about casualities and firestorms x2
Scorched earth policy is getting eCanada nowhere, except a higher rate of media activity. Cool heads need to prevail (and that's been said time and again, too).

^LOL

Personally I am very skeptical of vetos. I'm inclined to accept the decision of a deliberative body, whether I think it wise or not. I've said so before. When hard decisions are made there are always those who are unhappy. Goes with the territory: make your arguments cogently before, accept after.

I also accept that in rare instances, it may be prudent (judicious to use Rigour's word) to resort to the veto. That too is a decision, and I am inclined to support that decision maker as well. But what is perplexing to me is the apparent rush to vote, again, without any debate, on confirming or overturning the veto. Isn't this an issue which deserves the hard work of serious reflection and rigorous examination in the arena of ideas?

Quit-ter
noun
a person who quits or gives up easily, especially in the face of some difficulty, danger, etc.

I have not left this country nor was I planning to leave this country. I have left politics and working for the government because it has been shown by this vote that government does not want me. They care not for honesty, hard work or diligence. I took no bribes, gave none, nor grafted any money from any of the vast fortunes that I over saw.

Those that love Rolo have shown that they are willing to accept deceit lies and injustice and harsh words cast upon those who do nothing but work for their betterment despite it all. As one of those who has worked tirelessly for this country I have thrown off my collar and announced I am quitting such roles. If Rolo and his ilk think they can run things better, and that the constant thefts and petty bribes that are to come from it are a better option so be it. I will not be a part of it though, I can guide my course just fine without giving in to them.

Those that claim fear of what Rolo will do in the future is what guides their actions should take a hard look at the ground they have just tried to lay before the entire country. You do not beat an ideology (make no mistake, that is what Rolo represents) by capitulating or giving in to it. You do not need to write your PM, or message all of congress in how they should vote. They should already be aware of what is going on and plan to do the right thing. They should be against bribery and slander and spreading lies and harassing the good people in this country. They should be against those who hurt it, always and forever. You even more certainly do not paint those who are the victim, as the ones at fault for what has happened.

The article above is written with half truth's and lies and misdirection, and no, I won't go and point out all of them because any of us who pay attention should know what they are, and those don't, won't care when I do.

Every hero needs a villain.

drui😛 you are mistaken. I know, cause dad worked tirelessly every day of his adult life, beside mom. They were happy to build a home for their children, to be honest brokers for their partners in life and business, to be a comfort for those few who were more needy, to change the world in their little way. That heroism is now continued by others younger than I. No villains required.

and that is exactly the kind of heroics that are needed in this society right now. Doing the right thing to better others because it is the right thing, not because of selfish desires or other such "sins".

@Etemenanki: It does my heart good to see that someone else gets it.

Here is my view, and it is an Outsider's view. I don't actually care what you do now. I've left and I feel I owe it to the country which has accepted my application to give them at least a year before I even think about coming back. I am sorry to those who feel I was threatening to leave. It wasn't an attempt to change your decisions, it was me accepting your decisions.

Rather than everyone posturing about how you would done x and y after the fact, before you completely tear yourselves to bits, why don't you stop posturing a gorram minute and deal?

The CP says his veto was based on the fact that the decision wasn't thought through. Rather than jumping through a 2/3 majority hoop, why don't the people who want Rolo pardoned just introduce a new resolution and pass it? No-one can argue that the decision this time hasn't had sufficient notice.

And Rolo, who was silent until AFTER the veto, why don't you just reiterate now to those same Congress members that you are prepared to co-operate if you receive a full pardon? Rather than doing what you are doing now, which is post facto posturing that, sure, you WOULD have done that, but since the evil veto, now all bets are off?

I say again: do you really want a deal that reconciles you to the community, even on terms which have been correctly described as its "total surrender"? Or are you so addicted to villain roleplay that even now you are prepared to throw away the chance of a pardon that still clearly exists for the sake of more posturing?

I just wanted to stand next to those three comments and eCanadians.
present

We can argue whatever you like about roleplay rules, about ethic, about pardon.
As Acacia point out, our community is dying over a controversy that as lasted for more than a year. Can we just get over it and start playing this game properly.

RL concepts aren't adapted to this game. Does I always bring up the independancy of Quebec on this game, even thought I'm a strong supporter in RL? No, I have for long understand that it's serve no purpose with the ingame rules. Same goes for the forums ban. Alone there are enefficiant. Most likely if there are permanent.

V1 is dead in-game. Forums isn't require anymore to enjoy the game. Justice system needs to be reformed. It's time for the forum (and our roleplay) adapt to V2.

That's why I think the veto is unfortunate.

The article above is written with half truth's and lies and misdirection, and no, I won't go and point out all of them because any of us who pay attention should know what they are, and those don't, won't care when I do.

x2

Max gets it. Unfortunate evolution of the game. Still doesn't mean we tolerate dishonesty and hurtful play, yet there has long been a disconnect going on between the two spheres of the game (forum/IRC and in-game).
I'd take V1 back in a heartbeat over this V2 stuff.

"Every hero needs a villain." I was thinking more like in literature then real life. Without contrast how would we know who the hero's were? This is game is fantasy. Rolo does provide us with contrast.

The fact remains that the damage to the team could have been stopped at any point by Rolo and could be attenuated even now by him. But this is what I suspect: just as his silence until after the veto was telling, so now his willingness to agree to the (non-)conditions of his pardon is inversely proportional to his assessment of the odds that pardon will pass when Congress revisits it.
You see, the day the pardon passes, suddenly Rolo will be yesterday's villain, and yesterday's news, and he will be valued from that point only for his constructive contributions rather than talked about for his destructive actions. And that's a transition which, deep down, I suspect he doesn't want to make. He enjoys the attention of being the villain too much, and doesn't really care how much his playing that role has hurt the team. That's what history demonstrates to me, anyway.
Of course, it's possible my characterization of him is unfair and inaccurate. Right now he is staring right into the face of a golden opportunity to disprove my characterization of him. And yet still he hesitates. He equivocates. He cannot respond from a core, because there is no core. He is only willing to claim he will play nice if he is sure his offer will be rejected.
I for one am tired of this guy making this game all about him and wasting the rest of our time and energy.

😁

And that's a transition which, deep down, I suspect he doesn't want to make. He enjoys the attention of being the villain too much

I think Deep down, its a transition YOU (and others) don't want me to make. You enjoy me playing the villian too much.

Yup. Enjoyed it so much I have left the country I love just to get away from you.

Here is a thought:

1. Rolo's forum access shall be immediately re instated
2. that will end the matter.
3. get on to other business.

____________

rational:
the only effect of the sentence is it apparently removes his forum access ... so re instate it.
No need for a pardon at all since access is re-instated -- (or is there something about a "pardon" that I have overlooked?)

________________

Honestly, Rolo, what do you think?

It is of course the common cry of the villain that he is not responsible for who he is. He is what others expect him to be, what others made him to be, what others want him to be.
Of course, the villain never truly recognizes the confession of weakness inherent in that statement.
Many people are stronger than the expectation of others or their circumstances, and confound others by being who they want to be, rather than what others want them to be. Of course, such a person must see themselves as self-actualized and therefore responsible for their actions and their consequences. The villain avoids this. Even while he professes pride in his misdeed, he is careful not to take full responsibility for them. This wanting it both ways is of course typical of the immature.

You haven't overlooked anything olivermellors. Although I wouldn't want some other CP, etc, coming along in the future and at their prerogative re-issuing a ban at their personal whim....pointing to my past history via court cases

But to your point, access is the only thing effected by the Pardon, thus the only thing I am looking for

Ball is in the Head Monkey's court on that subject... Since he's the head of the Forum Admin Team

Perhaps progress being made. Ball not in head monkey's court at all. The veto should stand but it would make eminent sense to consider simple forum access. Perhaps progress being made. Shall I, the outside american righteous undeserving worthless unproductive player try to advocate the merits of this on your behalf and on behalf of some of the ecanadian community? Even idiots sometimes stumble onto useful ideas.

Rolo, the only monkey here is the one playing head games with you. When you figure out who that is and embrace the pain, you'll be a free man.

The only stumbling block in what oliver describes is the gold that they might ask for at some later point, since as you say, you never know who might come calling for it even after a pardonorwhatever has been granted. You're the only one who can take that bargaining chip off the table by returning it before they ask. Exalted Druid said it correctly. Why put it off any longer?

"There is no avoiding war. It can only be postponed to the advantage of the enemy."
~Niccolo Machiavelli

Join the CPF.

That is all.

Guys I am a bit worried. Crisfire is really mad. I think you should all calm down before he really looses it.

From an independent standpoint, everyone seems to wish to dance gracefully around the central point without ever actually pointing it out.

No one is willing to let the past be the past, and no one is willing to accept that yesterday's villain can become tomorrow's hero.

If Rolo did anything in the past, I'm sure that him donating however much money back into the treasury will not do any great assistance to the state as it currently stands. Is there enough funds to continue the current war? Proceed with whatever plans? Then we should be fine. The government isn't issuing bonds, so it can't be all that hard up for funds at the moment.

Restore the IRC access, as its only a token item. It does not serve as vital a function as it once did. When the battle module demanded, nay required, consistent persistence and IRC teamwork to make any headway to not only capture but maintain board position, the IRC was in its heyday. Until the battle module changes again, IRC is only a token, and with guest accesses, its more just a pittance from the government.

And for future governments to revoke this would only be dragging up past incidents for no reason. If any CP decides that it would be a valid move, I'm sure there would be an outcry to renew the access.

So, while I may support the decision to deny swift action, I also deny that the action was taken fairly. This would have settled the issue, the strife at home would be benched in the face of an oncoming war we will face with England again as they strike at the right time to be able to access their treasury again. The ability to move funds now means we'll have a protracted war that only will require all, and i will stress this again ALL Canadians to work as a team, as a solid unit, as the brotherhood that we have gained over the years.

In the past when Canada has been invaded, we pulled together as a country to rescue ourselves and restore a measure of balance. It is now time to restore the balance of Canada as a whole.

All of this reminds me of something...

Pay up or shut up.

It's quite simple.

"Guys I am a bit worried. Crisfire is really mad. I think you should all calm down before he really looses it."

Many people are mad and many people lose it, that is how trolls win.

"Pay up or shut up"

x2, best comment in the lot IMO.

Rylde and myself already went to bat for Rolo, and at great length. He doesn't want a pardon, he enjoys being cast as the villian. Every society needs a villian, keep eCanada's Hero and Patriot around forever. We'd be lost without him.

I note that, as expected, Rolo continues to allow the vote to unfold without any formal statement which would reassure Congress that the pardon on which they are voting is anything more than a wishful conjecture.

I also note with hilarity his expressed concern that some future CP might do such and such. So I guess any deal with Rolo must include some sort of magical and in perpetuity restraint on future actions, a sort of blanket immunity not just for past deeds, but for future ones as well. Since naturally, there could never be any real debate over whether Rolo's future actions are simply pranks and shenanigans, or treason.

This continues the pattern of assymetrical "bargaining". Unless everything is always done to Rolo's minute satisfaction on every occasion, there is no deal. Good luck with that going forward. Even if there is a pardon, how long before Rolo claims he has been slighted and uses that as an excuse to revert to his old/new/continuous ways? Even in his infamous Northern Exposure interview, he was demanding a kind of community censorship, where no-one could be bringing up his past misdeeds.

This is an object lesson in how far a selfish person, if left unchecked, will distort and take away from all those around him. Everyone is forced to "make allowances", to "not talk about that", to act as if they have not been taken advantage of. All for the sake of one sad, immature attention whore.

I neither believe in bats or great lengths as an indian.Crisfire is nothing more than the latest failed rider of the so called save rolo bus.

Crisfire did choose a diffrent strategy though. offering nothing but Rolo's word.

Thats a Tem trolololol if i ever saw one.

im not mad

I think you mean you're not angry. You're clearly mad.

lol as I probably commited political suicide maybe i am a bit bonkers but ya the day i get angry at this game is the day I quit

I doubt that very much. Many Roloites (Rolophiles?) continue to chug along just fine in election after election.