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We indeed had some good conversations about this! It certainly looks a lot more sexy (rea😛 transparent and actually readable). With the implementation of concessions / TW and other stuff a lot of additional columns/data was added that makes the current sheet bloated and is not very interesting for the ordinary user. It however serves fine for personal use by MoF, but that was not the intention when it was created 😃

You have a clear understanding of some economical mechanics that only a few can grasp, so others who would like to criticize you for only talking superficially may be convinced by now. If you need any additional data on formulas (like TW payment, or the exact Concession Formula which is a mess) or anything else feel free to shoot me a message!

• The Net Tax Income is what we ‘actually’ make in income, so it only takes into account the consolidated calendarized income from our concession fee: 100.000,00 CC / 30 days: 3.333,33 per day. This excludes the part of income that exceeds the fee of 100k stipulated in the contract with Iranian government.

E.G: This is the column ''Real Tax Income'' in the current sheet. You also need to account for received taxes from TW and ''Lost City Subsidies'' to get a genuine picture. I myself didn't include the concession fee, because I don't consider that really tax (aka it says nothing about financial status) but you could argue to include it for ''real income''.

I certainly hope this would convince people, although I'm not sure why they would doubt me in the first place 😛. But if you want you can definitely explain the TW taxes and lost subsidies to me! I didn't come across this when browsing the wiki and the file had hardcoded numbers in that column (or I at least couldn't see the formula).

I added concession fee to the taxes as they're included in tax income in the economy tab and didn't want MoF's to have to shift between sheets when doing data input.

I really wished we could have had more time 😃

I will answer here, because I believe some financial matters are good to be discussed publicly (which they almost never are 😃).

TW Taxes is quite easy: Germany pays back 100% of what they earn on us. Which can be checked on their respective economy page. Technically that's all there is to it. It's complicated in the sheet because I made a division in what part of their earnings is true Dutch tax money, and what is part of the Iran Concession. Strictly not required at all, but makes it possible to check what we ourselves actually earn in tax (''Real Tax Income''). By subtracting our in-game received Concession Fee from the total Iran supposed payment (part of which therefore ends up with Germany) you get the amount that Germany owes us/Iran in concessions. Subtracting that from what Germany in total earns on us gets us the figure what Germany owes us in actual Taxes.

Concession mechanics were a disaster to calculate in the beginning, but quite easy once understood. It's the total of (in this case) Iran's payment (based on % of GDP) minus ''Lost City Subsidies''. In some strange manner, the concession fee we receive is considered taxable income (10😵 for the (as of yet unreachable 'City Budgets') and therefore lost thanks to the concession. The ''Lost City Subsidies'' to be subtracted is therefore 10% of what we receive in Concession Fee (in-game!).

This also implies that Iran actually ''pays'' more than the nominal amount, because the Lost City Subsidies are paid as well - hence why in the Budgets there are random numbers as part of the payment that exceed 100k (in the past 60k).

Moet ik dit helemaal lezen? Ik laat het wel aan de MoF over. 😉

TL😉R: current sheet outdated, proposed sheet is the shit. So endorse, vote, sub and share 😛

I dont care, as long as they send my periodic bribes.

There's a hidden tab 'bananas'

Good effort, but it can be done easier and better. You will see in next few weeks what the financial experts will come up with 😉 .

As a financial manager I am curious! Always eager to learn.

Do you know Canadian Consumer Price Index (CPI)? It is a thing, that is published in Canadian news each week for several months now, to track prices and average salaries with one or two numbers. We plan to utilize that, as an example to follow inflation with two simple numbers, instead of entire tab.

And I agree the current subsidy system in sheets is abomination. Your solutions looks cool, something similar will probably appear, as there is not really many ways, how to do it correctly. (though there are many ways, how to do it terribly, as the current sheet shows - though when it was implemented, the author probably did not expect subsidies to survive for such a long time).

Also, about GDP - excluding concessions, I still have not found any real meaning to track that number, so better avoid it for now. There is enough numbers already for people to get confused.

Also, graphs. People do not like long columns of numbers, and graphical representations are necessary. Entire tab just with graphs should exist, so basic trends ("real income", budget size and size of treasury as main examples) can be followed.

Also, "ceiling ministry budgets", so that we do not need to track ALL minister orgs, because there will always be X amount of currency in them. While I was proud as MoD to collect so much money on MoD org, I lately have to agree with criticism that it was probably a bit too excessive. With budget ceilings, no money will be wasted.

... and now wait for me to forget all of this during the next 30 days 😛 .

Yes, I read about the CPI when browsing international media. It is a very interesting read on how they do it, but if you want to see impact of tax changes, you need a broader base of information than just two products.

On GDP: if no meaning has been found yet, you should keep track of it and compare it in relation to other trends such as price, tax and import.

Well, the main impact of tax changes we need to follow is "Can government survive, if tax is decreased?" If the answer is yes, the taxes should be lowered, because lowering taxes is basically "economic subsidy program" for producers.

Due to the fact that Dutch Congress is always resistant to any tax change in any way, it's not really you can expect many of them though 😂 .

Training Wars on our territory influence our GDP too... so the numbers we get, are pointless anyway, as Germany has part of our GDP, and the game does not tell you, how big that part is, as it depends on how long and how many of our regions were held by our TW partner at any given day.

That's why the number is basically useless for some tracking, as any spikes there can be caused just by Germany conquering region few hours later. That's the problem of admins though, not much any of us can do on our side 🙁 .

I know I'm not your best friend, but can you put me in contact with the expert? I want to discuss on how to manage sales prices of food and weapons, I can't find a way that would profit the eNL citizens without there being an option for economical tourism from other countries. Unless there is an option to make 'private' offers that I have missed.

My 2 cents: There is no true way, except for notching up Import Tax all the way to 99% (which I argued before, but not to such an extreme level). When I put up Houses for the Program on the Dutch Market (for eDutch) I noticed whenever the global price has risen, all my Houses were gone if I wasn't speedy enough to adjust the price - so that's definitely a problem.

But honestly that would only work with Food - there is not enough native supply in the rest. Weapons are being sold for an atrocious price in eNL and Houses are almost never available.

That's what I feared :/

I see a lot of imported goods on the market that are lower than dutch offerings. Would increasing import tax not raise the prices? That is basically why Europe has these taxes on some Chinese products, because Eupean companies couldn't compte.

If you keep taxes low, the outsiders can help lower overall prices with their more competitive prices.
It also doesn't help that offers automatically give the price of the lowest product on the market, when that price is already too high. I wanted to sell Q2 weapons and automatic suggestion was 102 NLG

Yeah - our market is too small, so we need to rely on import in everything, except food (which we have quite sufficient lately). So increasing import tax on Food could be a real thing to debate for Congress - I count on you two to do that though 😉 . About weapons - I sit on 4 000 Q7 tanks, which I cannot sell now, because the prices are too low to gain profit from them. I expect some people will be in similar situation.

There will sadly always be slightly higher prices on Dutch market - the fact we do not have 1% taxes (because we cannot afford to have them, even though I would personally love to have them) sadly means our producers are taxed more, so they expect to get paid a bit more for their product. Also, the prices are high due to little competition - if we will have more producers, prices will go down on their own due to competition.

Well, seeing as how prices are already double on Q1 and almost triple on Q7 (on local offers), I think we can only welcome import. Last thing I would do is raise these taxes.
Taxes on travel tickets and missiles can go up to 99% on import tax as far as I'm concerned. I think most countries already have this in place.

The quality of food does not really matter anymore, since you get atleast +1000 Storage each week for free (and tanks get 9-times of that)

I look at energy per NLG. Your Q3 bread comes out as one of the best. (but not with your prices 😛 )

Do not raise the import tax... we already have a small market with often higher prices and "transportation costs" are ridiculously small (most people is flooded with tickets). Also, assuming they are able to sell at higher price here after the tax is imposed; why should producers be favored at the expense consumers?

I really do not see the point in closing an already small market when it is so easy to move somewhere else to buy at lower price if needed.

It does not favour producers or consumers - it takes foreign economic activity out of the equation. So I don't see on what the 'higher price' would follow as we've all mentioned this could only work on food (where there is enough Dutch competition). Bit of fearmongering 😛

I do not know how do you reach the conclusion that food is competitive in the NL.

Looks good - let's see if the next government can do even better!

In the meantime, enjoy some 1.000 NLG reward!

To much to look at now. Will try to look into it later. At first sight it looks like you did put a lot of good work in it! 1 remark atm: I do hope you do keep sight on the day to day changes and details like you can in the old sheet (which I haven't seen in roughly a year now when I supported a MoF back then). Reason being you can track differences taht somehow occur with some MoF's. Some state it will be due to rounding, but over time that effect is 0 as one day you round up, others you round down. I have often found (also when supporting a while back) data was entered incorrectly or manually rather than using formula's.
Apart from that: Before being able to say if it can be used one needs to examine the formula's used, not jsut simpel screenshots.

Yet as I started with: Looks like a good development!

Why haven't you seen the Sheet for a year now, btw? 😛 It's the same as the MoF you supported back then, but with even more data now (a bit too much you could argue for ''general public use'' but good for official purposes).

I'm pretty sure it contains more data. Just like we added extra data back then to track the effect of tax changes that was already long overdue. Something with a concession as a minimum will be added 😉

I noticed a difference of 1 on the total taxes (including actual cash flow on the concessions) when entering data manually. But I don't really see how you get to make big errors, unless eRep has missing data.
On the formula's (there aren't many of them): if you enter something and the end balance is off by more than 1, you made an error.

Simply by people making errors and don't see it. Which is rather strange if you ask me but it happens a lot. So when data can be reproduced by a formula (for instance adding numbers) that is always the way to go. But some prefer to simply type the total as well. Just like transferring end of mont to start of month which for some reason some prefer to type rather than link to...

In that case: the totals at the top of the sheets (like the country sheet) are forumula's. not protected cells at the moments, so typing something manually is still possible. I'll see to locking the cells.

but if you add the spendings or income, and you add extra lines, doing so won't break the formula, and you won't have to update them manually. you can simply check the balance and see if it matches erep.

In some cases it uses columns, instead of rows, to collect data for hundreds of days.

As you taught me during ORION reports: "Do not put long-term data this way, because you will always have more rows than columns at your disposal" 😇 .

Transpose will be your best help in that case.

I believe such a mistake will never happen in finance sheets 😉

I did the taxes and gdp and markets horizontally. That way you can start every government with new, blanco rows (just copy and past the rows above) so you can compare easily with previous governments and overlay graphs for comparison. But maybe I can transpose those rows and track them in columns if people think that is better

It would be great if erep alowed export of numbers on the economy tab, reduce typing errors.

There are some external sites (eRep Box) that allow export to Excel - but it's still not completely to be copied 1-on-1 unless you design a Sheet that way.

I vlookup an option? I tend to not trust external sites too much though, tbh.

When you say manually vs formula's; you mean that some people do not use summs, multiplication... and stuff in the sheet or that the raw data could be collected directly from the website?

Sadly: indeed...

The first...

New version wouldn't allow that with the locked total cells. Total equals the entries in the expense/income columns below.

I'd like to see examples of the Ministry of Finance doing that. Formulas are used everywhere, except for cases where it's either redundant or makes for that another column needs to be added with another manual variable (e.g. making tax earned by foreign occupier a formula would require to add a column with Germany's raw data on what they earn in total on us). Manual input of tax data from our economy page also functions as a double-cross check on other data and verifies it to be correct.

As stated before I haven't looked in the sheet for a year or so. However when I did back then almost no formula's were used. Which naturally lead to several differences. That's on the main "data" tab, but also the monthly budget tab did not link previous to current month for example where applicable and several other examples as well. All typed manually so all the room for errors.
All was corrected back then I believe and the sheet made more robust again. Still several things were invisible that were visible when I was MoF (and criticized for not being transparent 😞 )

o7

Will look into this later TL😃R hehe first glims looks promising!

In Italy we have no finances....ahahahahahahah