My personal point of view regarding UFC affair
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by Albus Dumbledore
From June 2nd late night until June 3rd early morning (Central Europe time) we got a long and hard meeting between representatives of each Cuban top5 party. Croatian, Serbian and Greeks from Cuban Social Party, Partido de Liberacion and Partido de Cuba, came to the meeting forming a big coalition known as United for eCuba [UFC]. Their manifesto is in this article of Don Croata. I consider that what they wrote there is something good for Cuba. I would even signed it, but things didn’t end well.
You will find here a link to what we talked there so you all can read and understand what happened. Conversations started pretty fine, it seemed that we were going to have a deal. But then it come the time for sharing Ministries, and it all went to hell. My project included people from every party, I even asked them a week ago to fill a template requesting Ministries. Only Greeks answered me btw. Anyway, they asked for more power and we had to discuss that. I understand that if my party was going to have CP then other parties should get more key positions, but I can’t understand why they can’t share those places with people from other groups. We shouldn’t have Ministries controlled by single parties, because we have no only parties here, but groups based on rl born country. The best way to getter better relation between all eCubans is forcing people to work with guys who are not from their former country.
My hope of an agreement ended when Free Area decided it was a good idea to make me accept their demands by threatening me with an Impeach if I win. Im not the kind of man who gives in to threats, so this meeting was almost over for me. Anyway, this meeting wasn’t a completely waste of time, and I came to several conclusions:
* I strongly believe that they already knew how this was going to en😛
meeting was just a farce. The fact they did a first meeting Sunday (or early) without people from other parties and then come all together to me increasing more and more their demands, make me think they want negotiations to fail.
*There are 3 main characters in this story:
Free Area (aka Machiavelli): The one behind UFC and the exclusion of Hispanic Community from negotiations. Sometimes he speaks through AZTE, and will be probably ruling that Serbian girl government. He got some past with American, but he is reinserting in society so we should give him a second chance.
Don Croata (aka angry dude): One of those guys that get angry easily. He hates me because Free Area sent him a log were said that Croatian were nazi. I apologized about that to quasar (who was there when I said that), but it wasnt enough. He also hate most Spanish speaker for speaking Spanish at #e.cuba and having a forum mainly in Spanish. He hate Lawrence of Arabia too for calling everybody PTO. He rules Croatian Community, good for them because he is a good man, but bad for us because of his attitude.
MakedoniaGreece (aka the guy who got into the train without knowing where is it going to) Seems to be a fair guy, but he is doing nothing but watching and following. And its pretty bad because he is leader of Greek community. There are also a couple of Albanian with him, I dont understand how they follow an Albanian hater (and hated by Albanian) like Free Area.
*If UFC coalitions wins Cuba will be in troubles:
Even if most of them have good intentions (Im sure they have) , TETAS will considered Cuba as PTOed country, because of having a Serbian Cp (and a Free Area as MoD). Without TETAS support we will just lost all our regions (except capital).
An alliance made by Croatians and Serbian wont last for too long without having a third group that moderate their relations. We all know here how their relations are. Greeks won’t be able to moderate it because of the presence of Albanian amongst them and due to the lack of strength they had shown. If our government starts an internal war, then Cuba will fall.
My party, together with the Partido Comunista de Cuba, will be able to make a stronger and far more stable Government. That is what Cuba needs today and what Cuba will get.
Long live to the Cuban People!
Albus Dumbledore.
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Desde ayer en la medianoche hasta la madrugada de hoy (hora de Europa) tuvimos una larga y dura reunión los representantes de los diferentes partidos del top5. Los croatas, serbios y griegos, del Cuban Social Party, Partido de la liberación y Partido de Cuba, vinieron agrupados en una gran coalición: United for eCuba [UFT]. El manifiesto de este grupo, que puede encontrarse en este artículo de Don Croata, considero que es un texto positivo para Cuba. Estuve en un principio dispuesto a firmarlo, pero lo que pasó durante la reunión me llevó a cambiar de opinión.
Aquí tienen un link con el log de lo que se dijo, creo que es importante que todos lean esto para entender que sucedió. La reunión empezó bastante bien y parecía que íbamos a llegar a un acuerdo, hasta que llegó la hora de repartir los cargos y entonces todo se fue al garete. Mi candidatura incluía a gente de todos los partidos, y estaba abierta a cualquier aportación. Una semana atrás había pedido a los líderes de los grupos del top 5 que rellenaran una planilla con los militantes que quisieran participar, solo obtuve respuesta de los griegos. Por ese motivo no me esperaba que empezaran a pedir cada vez más poder aún cuando estaba aceptando todo lo que en un inicio habían pedido. Entiendo que como mi partido llevaría al Presidente los demás grupos políticos deberían controlar ciertos puestos claves en los ministerios; pero lo que no puedo entender es que se negaran a compartir tales puestos con gente de otros partidos. En Cuba salvo excepciones los partidos no son solo partidos, sino que se han formado en base a la ciudadanía en la vr de sus militantes. Si queremos fomentar la cooperación entre todos los habitantes del país hay que hacer que los ciudadanos trabajen con gente que no sea solo de su país de origen.
Mis esperanzas de llegar a un acuerdo se esfumaron cuando a Free Area se le ocurrió amenazarme con una moción de censura, en caso de ganar, para obligarme firmar ese documento. No soy de los que ceden a los chantajes, así que para mi esa coalición ya estaba muerta. De todas formas, saqué varias conclusiones de mi encuentro con estos individuos:
*Creo que ellos sabían desde un principio como terminaría la reunión: primero se reunen el domingo (o quizás antes) para discutir a espaldas del resto de partidos y luego vienen a hablarme en grupo y durante las negociaciones aumentaron cada vez más sus demandas hasta que estas fueron inaceptables. Esto em hace pensar que desde un principio su objetivo fue que no llegáramos a ningún acuerdo.
*Hay tres personajes principales en esta historia:
Free Area (alias Maquiavelo): Es quien está detrás de la UFC y de que la comunidad hispana fuese apartada de las negociaciones iniciales. A veces habla a través de AZTE. Posiblemente será quien gobierne si esa chica serbia llega a la presidencia. Tiene un oscuro pasado con los norteamericanos, pero parece que se está reabilitando así que me dijeron que le diera una segunda oportunidad.
Don Croata (alias el enfadado): Uno de esos tipos que se enfadan fácilmente por cualquier cosa. Me odia porque Free Area le contó que dije que los croatas fueron nazis. En su momento me disculpé con quasarr, que estaba presente cuando eso, pero parece que no bastó. Odia también a la mayoría de hispanohablantes por hablar en español en #e.cuba o en nuestro foro y a Lawrence of Arabia por decirle que era un TOver. Para los croatas es bueno, porque en el fondo actúa de buena fé, pero su actitud es bastante mala para nosotros.
MakedoniaGreece (alias el que se montó en el tren sin saber hacia donde iba): Parece un buen tipo, pero se dedica a mirar lo que otros hacen y a seguirles. Esto es bastante peligroso porque es el líder de los griegos. En su partido hay también algunos albanos, lo que resulta aún más extraño dado el odio mutuo que tienen con Free Area.
*Si la coalición UFC gana las elecciones Cuba estará en serios problemas:
Incluso aunque la mayoría de ellos tenga buenas intenciones (que es lo pienso) a TETAS no le hará ninguna gracia ver a un Presidente serbio en Cuba (y a Free Area de MoD) así que vetarán cualquier acercamiento a Cuba al considerarla un país TOveado. Sin el apoyo de TETAS Cuba será invadida y ocupada por cualquiera.
Una alianza de croatas y serbios no va a durar mucho. Todos sabemos el “cariño” que se tienen y sin alguien que los modere más temprano que tarde acabarán peleados. Los griegos no podrán ser esos moderadores por la presencia de albanos entre sus filas y por la debilidad política que han mostrado. Si empieza una guerra interna en el gobierno Cuba terminará destruida.
Mi partido, junto al Partido Comunista de Cuba, serán capaces de organizar un gobierno mucho más fuerte y estable. Esto es lo que Cuba necesita y es lo que Cuba recibirá.
Viva el pueblo Cubano!
Albus Dumbledore
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todos topus !!
votado!!
Cierro podio
votado, te apoyo 100%!
It's funny that some of their claims is not to be considered as tovers and they break the support and make this opposition to the true cuban CP candidate.
there is a fake cuban.. he told that citizens are not equal, and his party is the only one that has the power.
Equality is all we've ever wanted, you're just being racist now. Thank you for proving us right.
Racist? What? You didn't want equality, just POWER, the logs can't lie
Equality in having power to run a country. You're talking about the same things.
UFC será un problema para Cuba o que? Ayer usted dijo que los ciudadanos no son iguales. Su partido es el primero y tienen el poder. No hay jugadores iguales.
Así que, ¿estás hablando en serio ahora? Ataca con el presente artículo y que no es justo.
Feria del Juego del hombre .. eres no honestos.
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UFC will be a trouble for Cuba or you? Yesterday you told that citizens are not equal. Your party is the first and have the power. There are not equal players.
So, are you talking seriously now? You attack with this article and it is not fair.
Fair Play man.. you are not honest.
Of course every citizens are equal, but not every party. So you can't pretend that a 15 members party get the same power than a 60 members one. That was what your guys wanted and it would break any kind equality: those 60 guys would get a smaller chance of participating in government,
There are a lot of positions in a government. Ministers, members etc. There are positions for everyone that wants to help.
Parties have the right to hold an opinion and speak loudly to the congress by their congressmen. All people are equal.. so there is not a party that is uper from anothers. You have more congressmen and power but we are all equal.
Remember if the other parties cooperate.. your party will come 2nd 😉
look, you might have 60 or 200 members, it doesn't matter to me.
but you MUST have the most experienced ones in the key positions.
so you might have more members, but how many of them can run a ministry?for eexample,i know don_croata would be the best guy to be put as aMoFA.
and as far as it concernes me, i did not , neither my party promoted me as MoE in any goverment, everyone else did.
and as i have said (mostly in our party members,and that's the reason no-one promoted me), i do not care being a MoE or not, felpudon seems also good at this he seems a nice guy too
Nikolaos, why u assume your guys have more experience than our?
A lot of us have been playing this game for a lot of years. In this time we have been part of many governments and we have seen a lot of things.
I really wanted to have u as MoE, and Felpudon has no problem letting u as MoE. But if I wanted experienced (and intelligent) people ruling economy I also wanted good people at defense, and as far as I know Free Area is only famous for PTOing countries.
countries? which countrieS have I ptoed? I was also in Ireland for some time, ask them if I ptoed them. I also was in Serbia, ask them the same. You are twisted mind!
And this is really low from you...
Let's start from this: "* I strongly believe that they already knew how this was going to end"
Yes, but I was 99% sure the meeting will end with coalition between all eCuban parties, that was our only goal. We wasn't even prepared for any other outcome!
I get angry when I see something isn't right. For example, it's pretty naive and rude of many people who claims on #e.cuba that all english speakers must move to #eCuba and not talk on #e.cuba. I don't understand why there should be different channel, that's dividing for the community from the beginning, without a chance to meet eachother. I never got angry on someone from speaking spanish, so that's one of the lies in your article, I only get angry when someone calls me PTO'er because I know the reasons I came in eCuba and that is to help.
I also get angry when I read such a low propaganda article, and honestly I was hoping that eCuban community will be united, but with articles such as this one it definitly won't. We wanted to help, we wasn't informed, we was kicked from channel for not knowing spanish and we was insulted to be PTO'ers for being Croats/Serbs/Greeks.
Instead of writing an article such as this one, maybe you could have apologise as representative of spanish speakers (i'm not saying RL Cubans because most of spanish speakers aren't RL Cubans) and work towards unity of eCuba.
I hope when some other, more capable and less two-faced leader of spanish speakers comes in power we'll have unity. Until then, take your time 🙂
As I explained u today, speaking in English isnt banned at #e.cuba. It just happens that a big amount of the people that talk there are Spanish-speaker, and thats why #eCuba was created, to non-Hispanic guys a chance to talk without getting mad.
Just tell me who from Spanish community called u pto. You can't defime an entire community if you dont have proofs.
And we can't have an united community while your people keep spamming members of other parties: http://i.imgur.com/OVIc2Ic.png
Who called me PTO? Literally first guy I met when I joined #e.Cuba for the first time - Lawrence. Then, after him others was saying "tovers" too, if you think we're blind you're wrong..
You explained in a lot different way than you say in this article, just another of your manipulations, you've tried to make Croats here hate Serbs, Serbs hate Croats and now you're twisting words to make sure spanish speakers give you support. I'm sure they will, but I'm sad for eCuba because of this...
In the article you've said I'm mad when someone speaks spanish. Why such lying?
As far as I know Lawrence isnt Spanish-speaker or anything. So you are defaming all of us.
Man how is it possible that I make Croatian and Serbian hating eachother when since the begging of this game (I dont want to talk about rl) almost every single alliance was related to the sides Serbia-Croatia took.
Spanish speakers are not stupid, and they have a great experience facing PTOs from Balcans people. You can hide the wolf, but we still can see its ears.
And here you are, showing your true face.
You, my friend, never ever saw how tolerant a person from Balkan can be, I've travelled through a lot of countries and you will never find better hosts than those on Balkans.
Lawrence maybe isn't, but among those 10 people who called all of us "tovers" someone probably is, or everyone has been using google translate?
How you tried to provocate a war between us? We have all the logs, it just shows you as two-faced person, I'm afraid for eCuba with a guy like you in charge, I hope other spanish speakers will realise this soon too.
But such a low article like this one is your biggest mistake so far. With this, you've killed all hopes to see unity in eCuba as long as you're anywhere near to the Government.
Albus, I trolled him, he is your minister dude!
Porque no dejariamos que nos ayuden si ellos estan aca con buenas intenciones?
Lee los logs, ahi vas a ver que en realidad quieren poder, quieren ministros en todos los ministerios, eso es lo que dicen llamar "igualdad".
hey.. concentrate man. We want equality to the positions.. there will be a government with members from all partied for Cuba's good. Is it not equality this?
Call it pluralism
Equality, why wouldn't someone who's good with money like nikolaos run MoE? Why wouldn't someone who's good with army run MoD? Just because he's Serbian? vMoD could be "Cuban" (or to be more correct spanish speaker).
We wanted to show respect and get respect, we wanted to be involved and not sent on other channels, away from forums or called PTO'ers first time we join the channel. With that approach, it's impossible to cooperate.
because we are not "Cubans" in RL
Why not others? Thats equality too. Why you didn't accept like 3 or 4 positions? You are no more person that the other, ok?
well, you might have a point about TETAS feelling cuba is PTO-ed but with you most countries will give trust.
Greeks can persuade argentina for our good will and so doncroata can do with chile.
this would not be a problem.
albrepublik will also not be a problem between serbians and croatians, believe me i know what i'm saying.
anyway, the aproach to you was wrong i guess and it's too bad i could not come to the meeting. the result might have been different.
either way, we are all willing the good for eCuba.
i can't tell who is gonna get elected as cp but one thing is for certain.
if you get elected, you WILL have our foul support.
p.s. relax everyone , it is just a game , enjoy 😃
He will have our support yes, but I personally lost almost all respect I had left for him as a person. The only reason he'll have support is unity of eCuba.
Also, approach was wrong, I have to agree with you on this. But, the intention wasn't wrong, and because of that this approach could've been changed and things could went a lot more smoothly. I wasn't even realise there's a problem when Albus started to have fun with everything.
Q MIERDA ES ESTA RESUMEN NOW
You wanted to do eApartheid and make us less important than Spaniards. That is not possible my friend. Also, this article is full of lies about me. In many cases listed above where you say I did something, I laughed, because I am not eGod like you think. You think im some kind of mason or something, dude visit mental hospital.
Also I do not hate Albanians. You are just a liar who wants to divide us. When you spoke to Croats about Serbs you spoke only trash, and you did the same when you spoke with the Serbs about Croats. You tried to make us hostile towards eachothers, but you underestimated our intelligence. You didnt know we can actually understand each others and that we are friends above this game.
Como ya dije en el foro, hacer una división entre los jugadores entre hispanoparlantes y quienes hablan en inglés es absurdo. Se pueden generar todos los mecanismos posibles para que sea más fácil comprender a quienes no hablen español. Pero así como cuando uno juega en Francia utiliza el francés, o cuando juega en Italia el italiano, y en Serbia o Croacia sus idiomas, es lógico y natural que en Cuba se utilice el español. Eso no significa que no se pueden buscar formas para ayudar a integrar a todos.
As I said in the forum, make a division between players and between Spanish speakers who speak English is absurd. You can generate all possible mechanisms to make it easier to understand who do not speak Spanish. But just as when you play in France using French, or when playing in Italy Italian, Serbia and Croatia and their language is natural that in Cuba the Spanish used. That does not mean you can not find ways to help integrate all.
Exactly, but what we find offensive is when we're told to shut up and leave the channel because we're speaking english.
I agree with your comment entirely.
este 5 de Junio Vota por una cuba libre de TO !!!
votado!!
cuba libre!!!
viva cuba!!!!!!!!!
albus CP !! apoyado amigo!!!
My personal point of view:
http://tinyurl.com/p4f39h9
xD
Para el pueblo lo que es del pueblo!!!!!
Hail CUBA