Kosovo: An Important question from Serbian Nation!
kualkerr
My dear comrades of Serbia,
I am a Pakistani in rl. All my eLife, I have fought for three countries more than anything else; Pakistan, Serbia and Turkey. I tried the best within my power to benefit these nations and to consolidate the “brotherhood” shared by these countries. And I am proud of my allies who stood by my side in time of need. Three major wars and countless battles have been fought in ePakistan and my brothers from turkey and Serbia were ALWAYS there to help. I acknowledge this fact and thank the allies of ePakistan who were there to help, always.
A few days ago, admin came up with another “brilliant” blueprint to earn more money from this game which they have turned to shit already.
Introduction of Kosovo
I strongly condemn this action. I condemn the use of real-life political conflicts to poison the minds of common citizens and fight each other off. But i will not speak much about it in this article in order to rpevent admins from deleting it because what I am about to write here is very important for me and I want my question to reach every Serb present in eSerbia.
Anyways. Coming back to point, frankly, I never read a lot about Kosovo and the associated wars or the related history. I read a lot about wars but my focus has always been on world wars and resistance wars of Hindustan against British east India Company etc. This Kosovo introduction and all the fuss created by it intrigued me to read about the conflicting region. I read mostly on internet so I am not sure about the authenticity of the text I read but I am ready to believe it. A friend of my gave me a few links and I was shocked to read whatever there was in those links:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Kosovo
3. http://adamjones.freeservers.com/gendercide_in_kosovo.htm
A few quotes from the texts I read about the subject:
In modern times, notably during the Kosovo conflict, Muslim were victims of mass killings
Between March 19 and June 15, 1999, In Cikatovo, more than 100 ethnic Albanians were executed by Serb forces and buried at a mass grave site, according to war crimes investigators.
Perhaps the most destructive policy pursued within Kosovo, however, was the gender-selective detention and mass killing of ethnic-Albanian men, especially those of 'battle-age
The Serbs picked out Muslims whom they either knew about or knew, interrogated them and made them dig pits. ... During our first day, the Cetniks killed approximately 500 people [men]. They would just line them up and shoot them into the pits. The approximately one hundred guys whom they interrogated and who had dug the mass graves then had to fill them in. At the end of the day, they were ordered to dig a pit for themselves and line up in front of it. ... [T]hey were shot into the mass grave. ... At dawn, ... [a] bulldozer arrived and dug up a pit ..., and buried about 400 men alive. The men were encircled by Cetniks: whoever tried to escape was shot.(17)
Numerous other Kosovar villages had been decimated by the 'genocidal cull' of their male population. At the village of Goden, twenty men had been 'marched to the side of a barn and told to crouch down with their hands behind their heads. ... all 20 were mowed down by machine-gun fire. ... The men killed also constituted two-thirds of the village's adult male population
The evidence elicited thus far from the Kosovo conflict suggests that a single category of ethnic-Albanian victims was the target of the worst and most systematic Serb atrocities. If apprehended by Serbian forces -- VJ [Yugoslav army], police or paramilitary -- the young men were at risk, more than any other group of Kosovo society, of grave human rights violations. Many were executed on the spot, on occasion after horrendous torture.
Many more quotes are available; it chills my blood even to imagine those things for a second. Now, me being an educated guy wouldn’t want to blame the common public of Serbia for the horrendous crimes Serbian military did. Common folks rarely have anything to do with what politicians do.
BUT…….
I would stand here today, as a loyal soldier of Serbia thus-far, and ask the Serbian nation only one single question: Do you accept and endorse whatever Serbia Military have done in Kosovo? Do you endorse those atrocities and will try to justify them? Or… you condemn those actions?
I seek an answer from the Serbian people whose sides I stood by, till today. I expect an honest answer because it will determine what I do from here onwards.
A loyal Soldier of ONE:
(P.S i request admin not to delete it if they r thinking about it. Please let me find my answer first)
Comments
değerlenir buralar.
second!
speak in english pls.
This is Serbia , and you call them brothers , this is their true face greetings
Kualker go on holiday in Serbia and you will find out i will not speak anymore !
And btw kualker you discover America today my friend !
Respect.
Kualker, thats the same as iraq weapons of mass destruction, vietnam being a threat to USA and Gadaffi being a horrible dictatour... You could probably find out on the internet that you are a suicide bomber... They say what they say to justify stealing people of their lands.. Thats all. Read a bit about current kosovo prime minister, who took peoples organs and sold them, and kosovo being a biggest heroin trade point, with 80% of heiroin distributed to europe coming through kosovo... Makes u wonder, huh?
@akasuna
Thats the very purpose of writing this article... I m asking serbian nation if they endorse what their military did. I dont want to stereotype an entire nation for the fiends practiced by their leaders.
I seek an answer.
and black sheeps r everywhere... u find horrible atrocities in every country... criminals r everywhere... what matter is if the general public endorse it or not.
@kualkerr
person should not come to a disision without trying to get informed from both sides.
YES. there have been killings...on both sides.
SANE person would/should never justify one killing with other.
no human live is worth any damn land or resource or political/military motive...but reality shows us that human life is very cheap.
fact is that your friend told u one side of story.
problem with kosovo has been going on for at least 100 years back (and history goes far more centuries back)...
im not going to counter ur wiki links with serbian victims and serbian wiki links on kosovo...coz im NOT gonna convert those lost lives to numbers...
innocient lives have been lost on both sides...
im not writing this to persuade u to vote or not...
i dont care much whether kosovo will be added or not.
this is all about pixels and RL euros and dollars. and RL money will prevail in the end...as always...
im writing u this coz id like u to think!!!
that theres no white and black in the world...its all shades of gray...
common ppl r the one who suffer..no matter wich side they r on...
im writing this for my self and i dont represent noone but myself.
wish u all the best and thanks for u help in erepublik...
Albanians and Nato killed more than 2000 civilians , not counting men
Actualy, our army went there to defend civilians from the albanian terrorist group called UĆK, which is runing kosovo now.. They started attacking serbian civilians and police, and in the end they got a country financed by drug traficking, prostitution, and crime. You should watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf5r1AuZRZg&sns=fb , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nHWsWOgtiw&sns=fb , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCxmM3Lvys0&sns=fb ..
I would like that you read and watch this:
http://emperors-clothes.com/churchpics/list.htm
http://truthfrequencynews.com/?p=14118
http://truthfrequencynews.com/?p=14779 two days ago
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/mar/13/balkans?fb=optOut
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12309869
http://www.kosovo.net/destruction.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7jNTNsGXZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxcLkbTJSv8&feature=relmfu
> common ppl r the one who suffer..no matter wich side they r on...
very well said Deine
What happens if they endorse and say it is true?
No matter what, efriends are friends, whether they are from Afghanistan or USA. History is the past. If I still go with the History, a British wont be my best friend & brother and I wont be working for a British Organization in my RL... Dont be silly abu.. 🙂
A british who think they should capture my country again wont be my best friend!
A british who'd endorse what east india company did to us, wont be my friend!
Albanians are american puppets , and i think that you eastern guys don't believe anything what USA and NATO said , if you support albanians , you support killing innocent people in Iraq , Avganistan, etc...................
Please watch the links kualkerr... Ofc USA will use propaganda to cover their blood money... Hitler did the same, and we all know who invades countries to steal their oil these days, dont we... : /
kualkerr the situation with Kosovo and its history is too complicated and long for a comment.
Public in Serbia does not endorse any kind of atrocities.
Public in Serbia does not hate or discriminate Muslims.
Iam 31.yo and live in 3rd biggest city in Serbia. There is a mosque in city center here and it was not touched during '90. while the war in Bosnia raged, war between Serbs, Muslims and Croats. It was not touched by anyone during Kosovo conflict of '98-99.
It was burned in 2004. after Kosovo Albanians did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJs0cGo3L9g
@kualkerr
like i wrote.
normal person can not justify killing of any person.
thats why i wont send u links with serbian victims - coz it would appear that i justify killing from serbian side.
no nation, albanian or serbian should be put on black list coz of acts of individuals and groups of individuals.
what do we have now? in the end? serbs living in ghettos in kosovo - beeing murderder and molested on a daily bases by many albanian radical groups that have support in kosovo govermant.
not a single murder of a serbian victims have been prosecuted in kosovo (im not sure if u know but kosovo govermant is run by EX UCK terrorist army - that is sponsored by drug and human traficing - read the facts about it).
again...normal ppl are suffering coz of someones interest.
my advise - stick to friends u have...dont separate ppl by nation and religion...true friend is a friend no matter what color of skin they have, or what nation or religion they r.
I'll make it as short as possible.
Our army was killing only in gun battles. Under heavy attack from both sky and ground, they couldn't stick heads out of their trenches.
There were low scale proportions crimes, committed by various groups, both Serbian and Albanian. So some of victims were Albanians loyal to Yugoslavia, killed by rebel Albanians. This especially applies on families of ethnic Albanians members of Yugoslav police.
The war had ethnic origins, but Albanians on Kosovo are strictly Muslims (which is not so in Albania itself), that's why Albanian victims were mostly Muslims. I can explain why is that if you are interested, dates back to year 1690.
Many armed Albanians had no uniforms, so they were referred to as civilian victims, although they were killed in gunfights.
Racak incident was one such case, a staged "massacre" made up by NATO, with purpose of getting excuse and public support to attack Serbia.
Even NATO admitted that the people killed there were rebels, but only after they occupied Kosovo. There were more such cases.
There is much more on this issue, with involvement of heavy propaganda, but it's getting long already. If you want to hear more, I can continue in comments or ask me via PM.
Answer
Nobody deserve to die. We have good people and bad people ( no Serbs of Albanians )
Butt rest of article is very poor quality , examples
Albanian = Muslims is not equal ( Kosovo had 1999 about 100.000 non Albanian Muslims, now is maybe 5.000 ) ..................................
I don't think any citizen would endorse the crimes in any war except radicals who you can find anywhere in the world. Former Yugoslavia and all her nations suffered under the feet of imperialism.
Yeah, nikol said something I missed, there were other Muslims on Kosovo - Gorani, Gypsies, Turks, Egyptians, Muslim Serbs, and they all had to flee Kosovo after Serbian forces departure.
I condemn all the crimes. There is no justification for killing people. But while Western media present just Albanian losses, most of which are NATO propaganda for gaining legitimity for their intervention, almost noone knows about the Serbian ones. Why? Because burning Serbian monasteries, exodus of Serbian people, forcing Serbians to choose whether they will send the land or have their family killed, does not suit USA which wanted to make a base in Balkans. Albanians had their University, right on education on their mother tongue, right to work, create, participate in running the count,even the right to come from Albania to our Province of Kosovo and Metohia without papers, for the life in Albania itself was very hard those days.
But when terroristic organization called UCK (international community admitted they were terrorist just year before NATO engaged in battle ON THEIR SIDE)started to act in a part of Serbia, Serbian State needed to stop them in order to prevent them to make further crimes, and every state on the planet would do the same, would have that right. But when interests of NATO need to be fulfilled, a country has the right just to do what suits NATO, no matter where that country is located.
I told you this to make you see another part of this sad story.
But, I really thought what I had said before -> a crime cannot be justified.
Christianity teaches us that even if we are hurt, we cannot strike back, because crime does not justify another crime. On the other hand, if a man does not stop a crime by fighting the one that wanted to do it, will he be guilty for doing nothing?
I had Albanian friends in my grammar school and I had noone had problems with them. I myself, cannot hate one for one's nationality. I cannot hate the nation. But as long as nations exist, the wars between them will occur, innocent will be affected, and no good will be done in the fights.
And I think it should be good if I repeate😛
Whoever killed, tortured, exiled ordinary people, no matter if he is Albanian or Serbian, must be condemned. I cannot say that if Serbian Army killed innocent Albanians, it shouldn't be blamed because Albanian Army killed Serbians. No, both armies made crimes.
But a question which we enter philosophy with is:
If someone wants to destroy you, do you have ethic right to defend yourself, and how far can you go in that defense? I'm really eager to hear your answer, Kualkerr.
Your sources are wrong. They are the result of dirty NATO propaganda. They will tell you that the Serbs are guilty for everything, and everyone else is innocent. The truth is far from it.
Most of these stories about mass graves, was invented during the bombing of Serbia, to justify the brutal aggression against a sovereign country, with the aim of seizing its territory. Albanians are the only means to achieve this goals. More Albanians were killed by NATO bombs than by the Serbs.
The fact is that Albanians killing and expelling Serbs from Kosovo, for centuries. One of the worst examples of their brutality, is the removal of organs from prisoners Serbian civilians during and after the NATO intervention. An independent report from the Council of Europe:
http://www.assembly.coe.int/CommitteeDocs/2010/ajdoc462010prov.pdf
You are interested, i voted the article.
You know that in every 'war', and this one is not even a war,(there were terrorists on one side and army on the other side), media creats picture wanted by americans, combined with lobbying with dirty money of the criminals (Albanian mafia is one of the strongest in Europe and rest of the world),..you get a picture they want you to..
Its too complicated to give tough answers in one comment here, you should read, come and see all that happend. This is not religious war, Albanians made it important by ruining churches all over KiM ( links on you tube such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUfxOr1O4u8 ). They delete Serbias and every other nation in KiM!(Montenegrians, Goran people, Gypsies, Croats...)
True story behind all this is that Albanians want bigger territory for themselves, and they do this in Serbia, Macedonia and very soon in Montenegro. They capture everything with dirty money, buying houses and then producing all kinds of problems with a war in the end, like in Serbia and Macedonia so far. All that goes with propaganda from the US and UK.
in the end, i recommend this movie...
http://vimeo.com/8606283
sorry for spam and very bad english
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FN33NTMpLU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf84gioy8hU
Racak massacre hoax was the trigger event prior to NATO bombing of Serbia and invasion of Kosovo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQCmuEy0xRo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKsg6P2DryU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hc8Dtqj54w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_1-vBvyT4M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA56-iCBl4E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N6Xq33mxGY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q7eowff21Y&feature=related
Actualy, our army went there to defend civilians from the albanian terrorist group called UĆK, which is runing kosovo now.. They started attacking serbian civilians and police, and in the end they got a country financed by drug traficking, prostitution, and crime. You should watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf5r1AuZRZg&sns=fb , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nHWsWOgtiw&sns=fb , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCxmM3Lvys0&sns=fb .. x2
I know EXACTLY what serbs here mean when they say "NATO staged it to gain access in serbia n to build a base here"
The exact same thing is being done in Pakistan. They claimed Taliban attacked world trade centre and that talibans r hiding in Pakistan. Therefore they came here and established bases.
I know the way USA does propaganda. Same strategy was used in Iraq, Afghanistan n now Pakistan!
This has become complicated. O_o
Interestingly enough the response pattern has been typical of group phychology.
All Serbs have said that atrocities should not be endorsed and at the same time have in summary given the following arguments.
1. A denial that any atrocities/war crimes were committed. Stating that any one killed was an 'evil' rebel/terrorist on a mission to destroy humanity.
2. Tried to overlook the atrocities by diverting attention to further crimes committed by a NATO installed president.
If we are every to have peace in this world we must learn to recognize crime over and above ethnic boundaries. A Serb must react to the killing of an innocent Albanian as he would react to the killing of a Serb.
Sadly enough, in todays world all nations and ethnicities behave in the same way.
dodial...
wrong.
most of serbs wrote that there have been crimes on both sides
and tried to draw a global picture of events.
sure...ull hear some serbs that not a single hair was missing from albanians - and sure thats not true...
there are loads of links presented here and one should spare time to take a look and decide (if objective decision can be made at all)...
but ur making wrong conclusion.
and about kualkerrs question. he states he is friend with turks...should we mention armenian genocide and ask him not to like turks any more? its pointless...
this is game and we have our own efriends and it should stay that way as long as we r having good time.
@kualkerr
Just one more thing. This is not a religious thing. Serbia is a country where many nationalities and many religions live together without any problems.
Albanians are not true Muslims. Albanians have a saying:
"He who holds a sword, holds the faith"
Which means they believe in the gods of their masters. Before the Turks they were Christians, under the Turks Muslims. Under the Communists after the WW2, they destroyed all the mosques and churches. Under the new Americans masters, it remains to be seen what will they become...
and yes, it's complicated...Nothing on Balkan is ever simple🙂
@dodial
I see no other way to respond to the lies and propaganda of the west, but the truth. Documents and clips that I mentioned, are the work of impartial foreigners. Impartially and without prejudice, without "truths" of the warring parties, or the Western propaganda machine.
I'm sorry if this fits into your psychological profile. Perhaps you expect profanity, hate speech or something like that.
@kualkerr just watch a documentary named ,,The Weight of Chains"
if serbs can be Muslim, i like them.
@Turk Orkun
well...
i dont like ppl who value other ppl by their religion.
im atheist.
i dont believe in mighty superpowerful/inteligent entity that is able to do more colateral damage then USA and live withitself...
so...i guess u and me could never be friends in rl or igm? so...religious views seem to seperate ppl from one another...eh?
another RL problem...
typical serbian answer
"I condemn...BUT"
keep on keeping on
A tipicni hrvatski stav, je nasa premijerka pozdravlja javno generale osudjene za udrzeni zlocinacki poduhvat pred medjunarodnim sudom u Hagu, i jos im se zahvaljuje na svemu ucinjenom. : O
If you want to learn about our history, I suggest a very good movie called ''The weight of the chains'' where everything will be explained in a very funny and clear way, not only Kosovo but our whole history in 2 and half hours. PM me if you need a link.
We Serbs hate Albania, not Albanians. For example, if I see an Albanian on the street, I won't come and beat the s*** out of them. I even have 2 Albanian friends. The problem is when those Albanians are nacionalists, terrorists, human traders... And sadly, Albania is the number one country in the world in human trading, organ trading, drug dealing, killing... So yeah, I hate most of Albanians, but not because they are Albanians, but because most of them are bad people.
Kualkerr
straight anwer to your question... NO, of course.
Its insult for me that someone ask me: do you endore killing?
Kualkerr .... 99% people of Serbia will tell you same thing like me.
Like my friend Deine sai😛 in the war, only common people die!
@momcilo trkulja
write in your own name. i am serb and i dont hate albania nor albanians.
its wrong to put labels to nations or states.
same is beeing done to us and u dont like it..do u?
i agree what u write regarding to albanian mafia but...there r others who dont have anything to do with criminals. u put labels on albanians like western propaganda puts on us.
YES...its huge precent of crime in albania and kosovo but...common ppl have nothing to do with it.
YES...propaganda does its bloody work - and we all know that ppl r very easy to be manipulated....
so...i dont hate ppl. i hate criminals and warmongers and false propaganda...
In CNN world 2.000 Albanians from Kosovo and Metohija are victims, in real life 10.000 Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija have been killed and 200.000 Serbs from Kosovo are refugiees.
@Deine,
I agree with what you have written. My point was that most people defending the Serbian side try to rationalize the crime by citing one on the other side. I am sure that during the conflict people from both sides would have committed atrocities. Who was more cruel than the other is something I cannot be a judge of, and more importantly it is not the question that bothers me.
What bothers me is that anger and hate is used to rationalize the most henious of crime. Not only by people who have committed it but also by people belonging to that group.
@Marius22
I can accept your argument that the war crimes as we know them are western propoganda. It is very believable because I have seen it before. But it would be difficult for me to accept that nothing wrong was done by the Serbs.
The point I wanted to make is that common people are used against other common people divided by race, ethnicity and religion by the elite and powerful of the world. The motive is greed. Unlimited greed. The true division is between the common and the elite. The elite continue to provoke and profit from war, hunger, poverty and corruption at the stake of the common - for their selfish objectives. The sooner we realize this the sooner we will be at peace with each other.
...This si not whole story and every story have too sides but truth is there is more dead serbs than albanian ppl...however if u know a little of history u will know that serbs lived there from much much much...yearhs ago...and i think we know who is behind this story and it s not Albania or Serbia...-.-*
@dodial
it easy for me and maybe u to stand firm on moral grounds free from national or religious hatred and propaganda manipulation...
but...i havent lost anyone close to me in yugoslavia civil war or on kosovo.
no one close to me lost their family or their home...i cant say what i would think or feel if things were different. maybe i would also hate the world coz of it...coz of my ruined life..coz of war i never wanted...coz of few greedy idiots who play with other ppls lives...
u have to understand that these wars have happened only few years ago. wounds havent healed and some never will.
and THATS what is so WRONG with erepublik team. they r exploiting RL ppl suffering and hatred in order to get extra euros...
there will always be common ppl and elite that divides and conquers. common are those who needs to be manipulated with religion, nationality, some false historical claims...what ever needs to be done in order tp make one hate another...peace that u write about will never be coz peace is not profitable.
so...thers no point in dreaming...
its who u like..who is ur real friend no matter religion and nationality or skin color...its who u feel good with...everything else is fake and made by others for someone elses interest.
like coolinbun wrote - kualkerrs question is insult for every sane and normal person. but we know he (kualkerr) didnt mean to insult. he just didnt explain his concerns in right words.
Umm I am in a hurry and I have only read half the comments so I will read the answer of the rest of the half to later for now lets suppose wat the serbian ppl r saying in favour of their army.
1. That friend who provided kualkerr with the links was me.
And I told him the serbian problem as well which is quite clearly outlined in the link kualkerr has posted above:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo
So I didn't give him a prejudiced account at all.
Secondly lets suppose for a second that kosovo problem was due to the faults of the other side and they were persecuted and their bodies buried alive due to those faults (although I don't think ANYTHING can justify such massacre). How will the serbs justify when kosovo isn't the only genocide committed by the serbian army O_o
So here u go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#Bosnian_Genocide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide
and like kualkerr I don't accuse the serbian common people yet I ask the same question. Do you endorse what your armies did?
typical serbian answer
"I condemn...BUT"
keep on keeping on x2