I am not calling anyone a PTO-er, but… [eNew Zealand edition]
Don KronoX
So it’s that time of the month again, when we have to blame someone. I usually don’t write articles for every little “thing” and spam news feeds with my rants, but this time I’ll take an exception. So let’s kick start this article with the little look at the past. New Zealand citizenships were open to everyone who wished to migrate to this country. A lot of us did. I came to NZ almost 2 weeks before the congress elections. I created a company and talked with some of my friends who were sick and tired of local politics, to come to New Zealand, where we could live and start over. So a bunch of us migrated to this country.
Immediately we were marked as “Serbians” and “PTO-ers”. We hoped to put 2-3 candidates in congress election, but that was pointless since almost everyone already made up their minds. A few days before the congress elections we had two options. To kick off with a brand new shiny party or find “the unwanted”. So we contacted Serbian representative and after a few moment we figured out we have a lot in common and we share similar beliefs. So there you go, “The enemy” was born.
Days after the 1st congress elections were the same. We can all remember the article upon article of “PTO-er this”, “PTO-ers that”… even to the extends of comparing us to Orcs. Then the presidential elections came. At the end we decided to support a “unity” candidate Calbe. At the beginning we cooperated and talked, we signed 2 MPPs with Serbia and US and everyone was happy. Then Calbe was less and less available on IRC.
If we look at “eWikileaks” chatters of this administrations, for example the meeting of the selected staff after the election
100. 21:20:09: calbe: if they'd shown an iota of interest in the forums, inre: congress, I'd believe you
101. 21:20:11: but they don't
Yes. We were not »fans« of forum I admit that, but some of us are registered. Although I was registered, even I (who is used to forum talks) had problems, because the format of forum was strange to me. I always looked for topics, I had no accesses to half of the topics and so on. My access to PDB (Presidential daily briefings) was only for 2 week or so. Most of my communications with Calbe were on IRC. Its clear that forum communications doesn't suite at least half of this nation. But we were almost non-stop present in IRC chat rooms. So we could always talk.
Soon communications almost stopped. Then the tax initiative came. We proposed a different tax rates and the other side jumped. Yes we pushed fast. I admit that. But later we backed off a little and gave them 24hours do discuss. But anyway… the discussions went something like this:
“We would like to change taxes to bla bla bla…”
“Bla bla bla …. NO!”
“But we still think that we need more money for government… bla bla bla bla…”
“Bla bla bla…. NO!”
“Ok… we´ll let congress decide…”
24-hours later proposal passed… and again we were “the bad guys”
After that some money donation proposal came. We voted no, because no “discussions” were made and again we were “the bad guys”.
After that a week without wars came. We were angry and we wanted to fight. A lot of us wanted to finish the new quest missions.
“We need more wars! … bla bla bla…”
“We don’t want new MPP´s …bla bla bla…”
“Ok… we´ll let congress decide…”
24-hours later proposal passed… and again we were “the bad guys”
To make this point short… you can’t just yell “discussion” and then force your decisions on everyone just because they don’t suite you.
Now to the next point… “I'm not calling anyone a PTO-er, but…” actually you treat us like one. If you look for example Presidential Daily Briefing on Nov 28 and29th or meeting of the selected staff after the election you can get a clear picture that we are PTO-ers for you. You just don’t call us that, because you could get FP for accusing us without proof.
Only a few RL Kiwi are in NZ. All others are there from other countries. What that effectively makes them? A Foreigners! Yes, we like our community, because we like our RL countries. That doesn’t make us any less “ekiwi” than you. We just stick together, because we have no one else here. Get used to it. And yes we are not perfect English speakers and we have "broken" English. Get used to it.
So everyone who is not a RL Kiwi is here for its own purpose and interests. A so-colled ATO group is in fact composed almost +95% out of foreigners. That makes you “de facto” just another political group in this country with a political interest. And if we are PTO-ers, then that makes you also a PTO-ers and all this is just another battle between two PTO-groups.
So please stop with the accusations, the relentless attacks, sayings like “real kiwi, etc.” and admit that this is just another internal battle between 2 fractions who want to lead a country. We will all make political policy’s and congressmen will enforce them. That’s how politics work in all countries and NZ is no exception. Now for the love of god, stop with all the b@||&$Ł and let the people decide on their own, without any misinformation.
Don KronoX out!
Comments
we will see, about that..
voted. History of eSerbia will make people think like that no matter how. You'll need time to change people's perspective : )
MCMOOX je bio ovde!!!!!!
NZDF!!!!!
There are more facts that can be stated and more thing that could be said, but since we are constantly avoiding deepening of confrontation we will remain polite as always 🙁 Nevertheless this is an excellent article and explanation of the current events and attempt to get power via instrument of fear of "PTO", good work Kronox (:
Don KronoX for president!
LOOOOL “eWikileaks”
Amen!
gutmen!
When will you understand that the fact that RL NZers have sided with the other political group, and they have accepted it? If the RL nzers accept you, then ok, if they don't then go away. If you really cared about this country and about the community, you would go away right now.
You wanted wars? Why siding with France, and not spain? Why not siding with the TW Colombia is having?
I do not like forums, but I do participate in mine. I'm not a native english speaker,but I still participate in the forums. That's not a valid excuse.
You are using the same arguments the hungarian PTOers in South Africa use. And btw, some of your serbian friends are there as well. They are telling EXACTLY the same things you do. And the whole world can agree that it is a PTO, they came with the intention of PTOing the country. They have recognized it now, just as you will do in the future.
I'm not in New Zealand, so I can freely speak my mind. You are PTOers, you had that intention when you came, and the topic in your irc channel for a long time was "New Zealand PTO".
Lying is a bad thing.
Regards,
Enbaros
“eWikileaks” : D
@Enbaros "Lying is a bad thing" - what did you do on our irc all that time? You really considered us morons and lied to us 24/7 - that's what, but you were still welcomed. There was PTO topic for a few days because the first plan was PTO as I said many times. After just a few days some NZ provisional representatives (myles) contacted PHX hq via Ilija Bozic and explained their intentions of neutrality which was the reason to change plans. Please don't play dumb, our plans and intentions were explained to you many times, you knew that we are not PTO and will not steal, and you were welcomed and treated as a friend.
About SA - I dont know and I dont care what they say, we are saying what we think and intend to do. if you want we could make parallels all day long, the were many PTOers who claimed they are ATO. This argument is not valid at all.
I'd like to believe.
i am not native English Speaker!
i came alone from eFrance, not a part of any group or militia!
my RL country does not exist in eWorld!
i came to live not usurp power!
until some days ago, i was independent candidate! (see my presentation), i wanted to cooperate with anyone faithful enough to eNZ as to pledge allegiance to eNZ and to work for its interests and hold them above any other country...
If I was still a citizen of eNZ, I would vote for you in a heartbeat, Don. You are much more suitable to become president than Fionia. You show a great sense of reason, compassion, and a willingness to work with others, unlike Fionia.
Kurojca, I never said I never lied. Although I did think most of the things I told you, but then I saw what was that about, and changed opinions. But it's still a bad thing, to lie 😉 And you are doing it longer.
I don't consider you enemies, and I treat everybody as a friend, ask any of the hungarians in #esa but that doesn't mean we are friends ingame. The game is the game, and RL is RL.
The main thing of my earlier comment was that the "aTO" has the support of RL New Zealanders, and for that reason the should not considered TO. If they lose the favour of the NZers, and nevertheless continue trying to get elected and have power, yes, they would be PTOers.
"About SA - I dont know and I dont care what they say, we are saying what we think and intend to do."
My experience tells me that EVERY SINGLE time a large group of foreign people arrived to a country says this, they are lying. You could be the first time it doesn't happen, but, frankly, your actions do not seem to support it. History is important, as allows us not not repeat the errors of the past. And that's exactly what I'm doing.
You want me to change opinion? Prove to me that you really want to cooperate. Act as a NZer, do not vote always for your guys. I do not vote always for the Spaniards, in SA, In fact, I've never voted one. Vote the person who would do the best job, not the Serbian person who was designated to do that job, or wanted to do that job. Might be a serbian, might be not.
Have the same Bank of New Zealand, I would say wit a RL NZ controlling if possible. An mpp with France is not what I would call the best for New Zealand.
vote
"The game is the game, and RL is RL."
"the "aTO" has the support of RL New Zealanders."
One of these things is not like the other.
"aTO" has the support of RL New Zealanders
Is there some poll showing how many RL New Zealanders there are in eNZ and who they support?
Don! NZL obviously doesn't want your help. please come back to Slovenia and help us rise again!
Interesting article Don. Thank you for at least trying to state the facts.
@Corsantin, I agree, we should look into a way of determining how many RL New Zealnders there are and who they support.
Vote!
Aotearoa had the least amount of advertising for Congress (I have never heard of a lot of the Aotearoa congressmen), yet they got 280 votes - and according to http://www.erep.cc/elections/congress?d=201011&country=84&parties=on
That's almost three times the amount of members that were in the party, and almost a third of the country... and that's weird, because a third of the country voted for people that a lot of people have never heard of.
I just think it was kind of weird how that happened, and how uniform it all seems to be - the fact that all the candidates seemed to get the same amount of votes, depending on their region's population. Auckland's Aotearoa candidates have 15 - 18 votes each, Canterbury has 9 - 11 votes each, Otago has 8 - 10 votes each (with one large outlier) and Wellington has 11-13 votes each.
Normally I've noticed that it's more spread out.
http://www.eserbia.net/index.php?stranica=6&pays=NZ
This link shows that are 94 eNZ citizens living in eSerbia. During elections that number was closer to 30. Why did this number go down during elections and then go back up afterwards? It's as if you guys are shipping voters down here to help out. Granted, the ATO did that too, but we had less people willing to help out, because they were dealing with elections in their own countries.
It's embarrassing that the citizens are being told to decide on their own, yet it's likely (note: I said likely, not "absolutely clear") that you guys brought in a ton of mobile voters from across the world to vote for candidates that citizens have never heard of.
Sorry. You guys are probably really cool people, and you probably don't have bad intentions... I'm just really suspicious.
@crazyquesadilla
interesting facts. thanks. i wonder what does these facts mean??!
voted,
interesting, i didnt know you get FP if for inaccurate accusations about PTOing...
I dont have a problem with Serbians and think it is the PTO scare is dumb but i do think that the words and actions of some do lead people to think that every Serb is a PTOer even if the evidence is bad evidence...
These "facts" mean that you are arrogant. Just because YOU haven't heard of some people doesn't mean that they are anonymous to their own constituency.
QUOTE:
It's as if you guys are shipping voters down here to help out. Granted, the ATO did that too, but we had less people willing to help out...
Now, I find this really amusing : D
First you SUSPECT that your opponent was "shipping voters", then you ADMIT that you were doing exactly that and finally you complain because you couldn't do it more : D
Fun fact: Kurojca was the first eKiwi in the game so everyone that followed without an invite is PTO!
Hear, hear!
This is an interesting political calamity...
Very well articulated and thoughtful article Don
You make a clear point that both sides are at fault here, and many, many of us have been quick to forget that fact and also to take some actions and use them to paint an entire group. I know I personally will be attempting to be more open minded moving forward.
This is really silly to argue right now.
I promised to work with anyone when Fionia is elected, and I will keep that promise, Serbian or Slovene or Kiwi or whatever.
If you have to defend yourself, then your faith in our people must be really worn.
Both sides need to forget their past and fight to make a strong NZ, I myself am NOT on the eNZ forums, I am VERY active on KSD forums and I get on IRC quite a bit. And yes I used to be from eUSA 😉
Daniel Dodge
I really hope that you mean that and that all of us will start to act like that.
Bristel Akina
And what you will do if Fionia doesn't win?
crazyquesadilla
Did you ever think that Aotearoa changed the name? Maybe because of that you never heard about it? Or, that Aotearoa is well organized and they are following the results of voting? It's normal process, everyone is doing that.
And the last one 😉 Put yourself on their place: you came to live at eNZ like a good citizen and someone, without any reason accuse you for making PTO. How you will feel? Are you going to stick together or you will be open to everyone who accuse you?
Quote of the day:
It's as if you guys are shipping voters down here to help out. Granted, the ATO did that too, but we had less people willing to help out...
I simply can't say anything about this quote.
This is a hard decision,
Bristel is gay approved
Don gives me cookies
Who do I choose?
Enbaros Day 1,109, 04:38
9h 9m ago
When will you understand that the fact that RL NZers have sided with the other political group, and they have accepted it?
...
What ? Both of them ? (RL Nzers)
My main thing is this. If you HONESTLY wanted to form a cohesive New Zealand, knowing that the one faction (us) believed we were under PTO threat, and that an NZ forum was already up and running, and that there would be Forum Primaries for a "United Candidate" thing, and blocker sign ups, Why the hell would you not go through the same process as everyone else at the time? This is what makes you seem like a PTO. Rather then going through the steps to become an undisputed legitimate candidate as per Forum Primaries, you form your own ballot, recruit Serbians to come vote in, and run a fully ex-Serb ballot? Whereas a group of people from Mixed EDEN, Neutral, and PHX countries came together to do a forum primary and run a mixed ballot.
Which one seems more likely to be PTO to you?
Probably because the eNZ forum faction looked rather like an EDEN PTO group.
How much of a chance do you think you'll get tho air your views and be treated fairly when such a group thinks that you are PTOers? It was brutal enough for those who weren't Serbians but also weren't part of the clique.
Many eAmericans came at election time from the states to 'EDEN' New zealand and take the next flight back! There were topics in EDEN/BRO forums about sending 'ATO' support! eNZ's provisional president quickly quite his seat in congress, moved to eRussia to vote and PTO the place and then settled back in America!
If I was a CP or minister of another nation and suddenly both groups appeared in my nation then I'd call both PTO based on their actions.
kowalski_afc: I know that Aotearoa changed their name, it used to be Free New Zealand. That's not my issue.
And I'm standing by the little quote, because the fact is, it still happened. We gave up with mobile voting during the last congressional elections, but you guys still saw the need to do it on a very large scale.
Wpack10 explained it pretty well - we had a pretty organized thing going on, and you guys cleverly moved to eNZ a few days before the first congressional elections and had a ticket that comprised almost entirely of ex-eSerbians. We wanted to prevent any possible PTO attempts from ruining the organization we had, so we requested help from overseas. A lot of the people we tried to contact were also trying to help other new countries from being PTOed, so we weren't able to get much help.
You guys still got the 200 people who weren't in your party, though.
There was an article written in eSerbia by an official saying that "the PTO of eNew Zealand is happening soon! Sign up at this Google Docs document!" How do you guys explain that...? Or the scattered comments from people in what was then Free New Zealand that "this is a PTO eNew Zealand is going down". Quoting Enbaros, "and the topic in your irc channel for a long time was "New Zealand PTO"."
I'm accusing nobody of PTOs. I'm just saying, you guys aren't really trying to help prevent people from thinking that you ARE a PTO.
Yet if you look back there are mixed forum goers from all nations. Of course the majority will be from eAustralia, due to its proximity, and eUSA, due to the fact that it sucks. In addition all of these people have relinquished ties to their old nations and are looking only to benefit NZ. The Serbs freely admit that they came here with the original intent to PTO, then just because we declare ourselves non-aligned, we are to believe that they are not PTO all of a sudden? Even though they ignore the primaries, run all candidates from Serbia and Slovenia, and refuse to work with the forum-goers during the first election?
Maybe it wouldnt look like an EDEN PTO group if the Serbs had joined the community, wouldnt that have given it a much more balanced presence 😮 So dont go saying what it looked like because they refused to join the community.
This guy is just a show off begging for votes...
Vote for fionia, She actually knows how to write a article and a country.
After all comments I'll vote for DonKronoX
Wpack10 mentioned history. please explain! i remember also naming your party NZUP to look like the new Zealand unity party. is that an honest action????
The problem is that you play the victim card, and accuse us and blame us, while we have reasons to suspect and you did not try to behave in a way to clear things up... well till now, i see some progress, i hope this progress toward openness will be truly genuine
we love you all
"the PTO of eNew Zealand is happening soon!" and other such comments were talking about the EDEN PTO of eNZ.
You are right in that there were individuals whose intent was to take all the gold, wreck the markets and use eNZ as a toll for their alliance - but thats true of comments from both sides.
Only a short time before the elections so we really don't have the time for a quote war.
Basic fact is that no-one has a admin-given right to eNZ, not even the RL New Zealanders (see Austria, Japan and especially North Korea). Whoever takes control and does so fairly (I imagine both sides are monitoring any new accounts) is the legitimate holder of the eNZ name.
much ado about nothing 😛
As one of only a handful of RL New Zealanders, I'm willing to offer support here. I haven't decided who I'll vote for, it depends what else is said.
One thing I do strongly disagree with is the name of the Aotearoa party though. Don't give a political party the name of a country, it's not right.
Also, I find it pretty strange that there isn't a section of the erep.co.nz forums for Serbian/foreign language speakers. I thought the idea was brought up a while ago
Well I'm pretty aware most of the Serbians are able to speak English. Plus the idea is to make English the primary language spoken in NZ, since it's just more convenient that way.
Anyone remember eSwitzerland, how they literally had like 5 different forums within the forum, one for each of the languages. It was insanely annoying. There were like five different communities within the country and each one was like it's own country.
Gaius, there can be no "primary language". That would be discriminatory.
As another RL New Zealander (despite the fact I live in Aus), I see merit in both sides, and faults in both, too. I eGrew up in eAustralia, so I tend to have a dislike of Phoenix due to eIndonesia, but I must say that the Serbs haven't really provoked us. Sure, they have been secretive and suspicious, but that is not entirely their fault.
We tried opening our arms after the first congressional election, but in the weeks leading up to it, the Serbs were attacked as PTOers and I think we can't just brand someone PTOers one day, and hope they'll forget it the next.
I personally will be voting for Fi on the 5th, but that is simply based on the fact that I think she is better for eNew Zealand. I will not be upset of Don wins.
Vote
Pretty accurate description of what's happened up until now. Voted.
"Gaius, there can be no "primary language". That would be discriminatory."
So your saying its racist that a country like America has declared its language as english?