How to salvage eSwedish - ePolish relations
Styvfar
(I'll try to be objective. If you are familiar with the events you could skip through this part.)
A few weeks ago, eSweden and eGermany (i.e. eGermany and eDenmark) made a deal allowing eSweden to secure the regions of: Schleswig-Holstein and Hamburg, Brandenburg and Berlin, Mecklenburg Western-Pommerania. The treaty was signed by the then presidents of eGermany and eSweden. The deal was also supposedly approved by ONE HQ. This deal was however not popular with ePoland, who consider all of eGermany to be “their cores”.
After the total disappearance of eSwedens newly elected president Thaimat, the eSwedish management of the controlled war against eGermany took a serious blow. Some days later, Thaimat was impeached and Essess took over. Essess, being a two-klicker, agreed to leave actual governance to vCP Lemlin, acting as his marionette. For a while, everything seemed to end well.
However, when ePoland was just about to launch a since long planned attack on eGermany, eSweden auto-attacked Saxony, blocking the ePolish route into eGermany. Had the eSwedish government been more alert, this would not have happene
😛Essess would have been contacted and asked to launch an attack on a “safe” eGerman region, thus nullifying the risk of an attack against Saxony. This was indeed sloppy management from eSweden’s government, there’s no denying that. There was also some confusion during the night following the eSwedish attack. eSwedish forum-order was obviously to lose the Saxony fight, this was also shouted in the main MU-feed. However, the information failed to reach some eSwedes who unfortunately fought for eSweden in the battle. There are also rumors that the eSwedish MoD edited the official ONE order during the night, to fight FOR eSweden, thus contradicting both the interests of ONE and the official eSwedish order.
In the end eSweden unfortunately “won” the campaign in Saxony, much with the “aid” of eAmericans and other TEDEN-people. Weather ePoland made any attempts to fight for eGermany and keep the way clear, I do not know – but I doubt it due to the overwhelming eSwedish “victory”.
Following this, hell broke loose. ePoland initiated a NE-vote against eSweden, thus risking the whole ONE-alliance. ePoland demanded that eSweden was to leave all eGerman regions - or face war.
ONE high command starts to mediate to save the alliance. During the meeting neither eSwedens acting CP nor MoFA participates. Instead Jegarmister, eSwedish presidential advisor, and Lonestar, eSwedish MoD, are the only eSwedish representatives. The meeting ends with the proposal of an agreement, saying that ePoland will vote down the NE, and that eSweden will leave eGermany. The agreement has been signed by ePolands vCP and eSwedens MoFA (who suddenly has appeared?!). The agreement has however NOT been approved by any other eSwedish official, nor its congress.
The main critique
The ePolish rage is divided into two categories: That eSweden has “conspired” with the enemy (eGermany), and that the eGerman regions are actually “ePolish cores” (sic!).
Let’s start with the latter. The ePolish community has made eGermany their sworn enemy. Weather this relates to historical IRL issues or something else, I don’t know. Seeing eGermany wiped is a high priority for ePoland, and the eSwedish deal with eGermany makes it impossible to achieve a total wipe.
This leads us to the “conspiring” part, that making a deal with a TEDEN country in which the TEDEN country benefits, is against the interests of ONE. Well, allow me to present the eSwedish reasons for striking a deal with eGermany: First of all, eSweden wants fruit and fish. Secondly, in our contacts with eGermany, there is no denying that the eGermans seem to be very reasonable. eSweden cannot secure regions from eGermany in a conventional was, as eGermany is a stronger nation, and cannot expect much help from ONE as the alliance is busy elsewhere. eSwedens only possibility to gain fish and fruit regions is to strike a deal with eGermany. The sum of the deal, from the perspective of ONE is: eSweden gains resources – great! eGermany forfeits resources – great! ePoland is only marginally affected and can still invade most of eGermany – great!
However, from the ePolish side, to many, totally wiping eGermany seems far more important than the bonus regions of an ally… This despite the fact that the eSwedish deal does not hinder ePoland from seeking their own bonuses in any significant way. On the back of this rather odd prioritizing, ePoland sees its opportunity when the eSwedish government makes a sloppy war-management error and ePoland accuses eSweden of actively blocking the ePolish route into eGermany. The fact that it was an auto-attack, and that the ePolish attack into eGermany is merely delayed for a couple of days is totally ignored.
But this fact remains: The whole situation could easily be settled by an official apology from eSweden for delaying the ePolish attack, and that ePoland then waits a couple of days, until Saxony is RWed by eGermany, thus reopening the attack route. But the eSwedish government has thus far been too weak to produce an apology, and the ePoles have been too blinded by rage to be this patient.
ONE High Command
The ONE high command has had one main objective in this mess: to save the alliance. To achieve this, ePolish interests have been prioritized. Why? I don’t know. Perhaps because ePoland is a stronger nation? Perhaps because ePoland is more stubborn? But the fact is that a mutually beneficial solution, like the one above, was not considered. eSweden thus does NOT feel that they have proper support from ONE HQ and that the integrity of ONE HQ has been compromised. A sound and approved deal has been overlooked due to ePolish threats.
When the big boys play, eSweden is maginalized.
Where do we go from here?
It not too late to salvage the situation however. It never is. But as I mentioned above, it will require some lost faces. First of all eSweden should officially apologize for the sloppy management of the war against eGermany that caused the ePolish route to be cut. Secondly, ePoland must accept the apology. Thirdly, the two countries must cooperate to reopen the ePolish attack route as fast as possible. The result of this would be: eSweden gets fish and fruit. ePoland gets all bonuses that could possibly get. eGermany exists, but as a rather territorially insignificant state on the Danish peninsula.
eSweden then sit down and rethink how to manage wars and diplomatic contacts with fellow ONE states while ePoland focuses on conquering western Europe, bringing glory to ONE. From a rational perspective, this is solution is as sound as it gets.
Best
Styvfar
Comments
till of course next time when Poland want.......lets say, Norway.
Rah rah rah. Do as Poland say!!!!
I'm affraid you are not obiective, neither I, but your words are what we expect to hear. This is good point to start talk about our future together.
The worst thing as I wrote in comment under this article:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/one-shows-it-039-s-true-colours-esweden-is-out--2010974/1/20#comments
was lack of communications. And this wasn't our fault - you have just wrote above that on this important meeting in ONE HQ Sweden send people who couldn't do anything. The lack of any official or quasi-official article is really bad...
Solution - fruits for Sweden or danger of cut off PL from 5 resources in one RW.
It's really difficult decision, but keep in mind that if PL will have 100%/100% the whole one could move to PL and produce in high bonuses. IMO this is not decision for PL nor SWE. The whole ONE community have to make this choice.
But at the en😛
Thanks for your article - it gives hope for keep our alliance alive.
"Dear cowards,
you're going down even without a fight lololol.
Maniek will beat you alone lames
Nobody needs you while you are just traitors.
With friends like swEDEN who needs enemies?
Prepare for war,
Tejku"
This I got from Tejku just yesterday. Are you really interested in mending our relations, or just saving your face in public?
As if its the Poles who are being stubborn and feeling entitled right now
Crazyfrog11: It's difficult to me because Sweden in my eyes has two faces.
First is trollface - people who insults Poland and Polish people, make deals with our fierce enemies - Germany behind our back, troll us like you did yesterday. I really hate this Sweden, and I don't want it in ONE (my private statement, while I'm not official).
But there is also second face - face of some people I've met on irc and talks with them, which I really enjoy. This is also memory of country who help ePoland when we was erased in v1. This is face of Styvfar who wrote this article above to try solve our problems. I really love this Sweden, and I wish to keep you with us.
When I wrote this PM to you I see clearly this first one - you make fail with this all matter in Germany, and instead of explaining this to us you start trolling PL. But latter, after nice talk with some Swedish people I calm down and I try to explain you our point.
"The agreement has been signed by ePolands vCP and eSwedens MoFA (who suddenly has appeared?!). The agreement has however NOT been approved by any other eSwedish official, nor its congress."
So.
IF your MoFA is not offical enough to approve deals, who is?
And what's even more important - Where is he?
I suppose both ONE and Poland would like to talk to officials whose words mean something. There is no possibility to talk with absent ppl and the absence of Sweddish officials is nothing new in our relations.
There are 'rumors' they appear when NE is coming but they must be rumors obviously... as you said, yesterday's staff wasn't official enough. 😛
Our MoFA never was on IRC Tremeda, that's what we think is strange how someone can say it's signed by our MoFA who wasn't online.
Regarding us not sending official people, maybe that was because the meeting was summoned within an hour.. not time to get people online
Tejku: Truly enlightening comment. What makes it even more interesting is that I could take your comment and change a few words and names, and it would work very well the other way around as well. It explains quite a lot of why we are where we are today. I've played this game long enough to remember the long journey of great Swe-Pol relations. Things started to break down when "side 2" in both countries gradually became louder than the other. I believe our former great relations can be restored, if both sides is willing to work for it.
But then again, the main reason for all our troubles is the state the game is in. Is it worth working for a game that is dying?
Our MoFA never was on IRC Tremeda, that's what we think is strange how someone can say it's signed by our MoFA who wasn't online.
@Larm
NOW #mofa.pl Rizon. Guess who you will see on chat. Isn't it Dalze[swe][MoFA]?
If your CP is not able to do anything we have to deal with your government, and the best person is MoFA, who has agreed for this.
Lies, lies, lies.
@Tejku: Regarding the danger of cut-of of ePolish regions, we could begin by leting eSweden hold Brandenburg and Berlin at least until the ePolish campaign against Germark is starting to reach its end. Then, if RWs seem to pose an actual threat, handing over B&B could be discussed within the alliance.
@Styvfar: this is what we already agree to do. And then happen many wrong things and as Siddy wrote... this is no longer possible. But I think that we could later mess a bit and create second passage through Czech Rep. and you will take BaB. But we need start talking instead of trolling like your gov in this days
It's sad too see how relations between our countries dissapears after all those years. I still remember beta times, v1 times... We were best allies, but life goes on. Old players are leaving, new players are coming and things are changing.
I don't really think that there's a way to keep our countries 2gether as allies, as friends anylonger. Sad but true.
Nothing lasts forever, but still - older players will always remember those good times between our countries.
Tejku putting the blame on us when Poland comes with LULZIS demands kk, call it trolling i call it reason
@Slapface: If you call this reason then we should talk about this and find solution. If it's not possible.... well then we have to choice another way to deal with it - I wrote it to you yesterday when NE was voting. This is good as well because it clears situation
Tejku I thought ONE HQ, poland and Sweden are talking right now to find a solution aren't they?
Is Lemlin missing? if he is hes useless if not I love him ❤
Poland -> N Bohemia -> S Bohemia -> Germany
then they can have Saxony as soon as we manage to RW it
Good article! voted
Well written Styvfar.
Good work with the article. Now all get back to work on fixing this mess 🙂
Few days of delay will not kill us. At least not in an internet game 😉
Holy sh!t, better read this 🙂 http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-cp-of-eturkey-ultimatum-from-eturkiye-to-russia-2011843/4/20#comments
This is even funnier than Pol-Swe drama.
Free popcorn?
Poles can go to hell, lets just quit this non-functioning "Alliance". ONE just stands for ONE country and that apparently is Poland.
Styvfar, although the article is right in the general lines, you're wrong in one thing.
The proposal of ONE HQ has always been (and still is, as said in my article) that Sweden has the right to keep fruit unless it severely and provenly threats Poland passageway, which was the case consdiering that you have no CP. ONE HQ proposal involved Sweden getting fruit again after they had a CP.
Mind that polish proposal was ONLY accepted by HQ after being accepted by Jegarmister, and that Jegarmister has never told until the article was made that he had no power to take decisions, while he talked in the whole meeting as if he had so.
One of the things that has aggravated the situation most is Jegarmister actually accepting the polish proposal, and then, in order to save his ass, say he never did that and then leaking all the logs (including those in where Jegarmister is shown to have accepted the Polish offer). If he had just said "No" HQ would have returned to their original idea. He did not so, and we were more than happy to agree with a proposal in which both Sweden and Poland apparently agreed.
So I'd say that the person most to blame besides Thaimat is Jegarmister.
I'd like to add that some Polish soldiers were fighting for Ger in first RW, but it was not organized, so we had no chances vs TEDEN+groups of Swedes
and
"However, from the ePolish side, to many, totally wiping eGermany seems far more important than the bonus regions of an ally…"
That's not about wiping, that's about bonuses. Thanks to path though Ger, we'd have 9/10 bonuses.
"The ePolish rage is divided into two categories: That eSweden has “conspired” with the enemy (eGermany), and that the eGerman regions are actually “ePolish cores” (sic!)."
I disagree. Polish rage is in 99,9% not about your contract with Germark, not about auto-attack on Saxo, blocking our advance, but the fact that Sweden was defending this RW, instead of losing (your MoD did some weird stuff).
Personally, I think many Pl and Swe players just overreact. Why don't RW Saxo, get back to kicking EDENs butt and forget about this irrelevant issue?
Though, what I don't understand is why ONE HQ repeatedly H-a-v-e to cave in to ePolish demands. ePoland is a great and strong eCountry, but the leverage The alliance of ONE has is that they can choose to exclude ePoland from the alliance (Which they are very afraid to do it seems). That would leave ePoland hung dry, as TEDEN surely would take advantage of the situation and move against ePoland.
I'm not saying they're bad allies, I'm just saying they're very childish bullies, and bullies should always be picked down from their piedestal.
If eSweden gets fruit and fish, sweden grows stronger, ePoland could just chill for a little while and move into eGermany as they see fit after the Saxony region has been RW'd back. They would secure alot of resources and areas, growing richer by it. Therefore, both countrys benefit from it, and the alliance as a whole as both countries grows stronger. Swallow your pride and work with us here.
unfortunatly this articule wasn't objective.
Two rare things in erepublik (I don't know wich one is worse):
1) official in eSweden that can do something and can be reached
2) official in ePl that can do something more productive than simple "Silence, I'll kill you!"
"and that the eGerman regions are actually “ePolish cores” (sic!)."
This is a simple fallacy. The second part was that eGermany is part of enemy alliance, and that it's not only possible, but doable and fairly easy to have Sweden and Poland take resources from their regions. But through point 1, and an unheatlhy dose of negligence (CP AWOL is important but not _only_ part of that) Sweden has decided to play against an ally and deal we've had (one that was all-out favourable to Sweden, with the exception of upholding the deal with Germans). YOU BROKE THAT DEAL, and _that_ is the reason for re evaluating the original deal.
And now you show even more clearly that Sweden is not merely untrustworthy of making deals with - it's simply incapable of doing so.
Break alliance charter multiple times, fight against ally
"Must uphold our pacts! (with enemies)"
eSwe logic strikes again.
(and as to eGermany being cores of ePL - it's a joke for simpletons to imply that it's a natural direction of expanding for us given borders with allied countries. I didn't take you for ones, but it goes to show : ) )
And FYI - this whole situation is nothing in comparison to our long alliance, and in fact is not a true reason behind our players raging. They are pissed off because it's another consecutive slap coming from eSweden, who has the nerve of calling us bullies when we put up with your moody BS for months.
Lets face it, we dislike ePoland and they dislike us.. why pretend otherwise?
We should not be in the same alliance.