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English reply to 【刺風】對於南韓的公投結果(CH/EN) / The Cost

Day 2,143, 01:22 by Steveeven

17 hours ago, klonoa wind wrote an article titled, “【刺風】對於南韓的公投結果(CH/EN)” at http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-ch-en--2324703/1/20.

Initially, I was going to comment on the comments section but I later decided to make a response article instead:

Thanks for the article and thanks for the poll. eROK wants to leave CoT and join TWO. I think the reason why is because TWO is the strongest alliance and a TWO country is occupying their territories. By joining TWO, eROK is hoping the get their country back from us, since, then, we would be member countries. Naturally, we think it's a bad idea. However, our opinion will have little influence on eROK's decision.

I can think of a few possibilities, and we need to be careful. I will assume eROK will continue to have the intention to join TWO. One, and the best-case scenario, TWO member countries rejects eROK's request to join our alliance. Our occupation will remain unchanged. Second, TWO accepts eROK's request but leaves the land negotiation to us and eROK. With this possibility, we might still be able to hold on to some of eROK's land. Third, TWO accepts eROK's request and orders us to relinquish our hold on eROK. If we reject this order, we risk damaging our reputation with the TWO alliance. The fourth and worse possibility is that TWO, for whatever reason, accepts eROK's request and decides to kick us, eROC, out of their alliance. There are possible reasons. We are still a relatively new member and were former enemies. They might not trust us as we don't trust eROK. And our hatred of eROK could work against us. If they accept one, they probably won't be able to accept the other.

The chief countries we need to lobby are ePoland and eSerbia. They are the founders of TWO and are powerful. If we can persuade them that they can't be trusted or other reasons, then everything will be fine.

Now moving on to my opinion, I have some things to say about our relationship with eROK. Many eROC citizens don’t like eROK as evidenced by klonoa’s poll. Arguments include that eROK cannot be trusted. I want to say something. How long? How much time needs to pass before we can trust eROK again? Does eSK need to give us gold or money, or tribute? I know of past deals with eSK that has gone sour but how long will we punish them for it? We are already punishing eSK by taking their land. So my question is, will we ever trust eSK again, and, if yes, under what conditions. If our answer is no, then we will be unreasonable, unless of course, our reason is to get the x1.5 production bonus, which leads me on to my next point.

I don’t think many players have thought about this, but there are costs of occupation. eRepublik players say they occupy other countries to get the resource bonus. But I have seen few players talk about the cost. By occupying countries, we make enemies. Those enemies can launch RW’s and fight against us in wars. That can negate or even cost us more than what the x1.5 resource bonus will give us. Here are some calculations (And I apologize that this article has no pictures. Adding pictures takes too much of my time :( )

Enemy State:

eROC: 1,931 (citizen population) * 1.5 (1 = base, +0.1 for each resource) = 2,896.5 Real Power (RPI)
eSK: 1,697 (citizen population) * 1.0 = 1,697 Real Power

Since we are enemies of eSK, I will subtract our RPI with eSK’s RPI:

2,896.5 – 1,697 = 1,199.5 RPI left

Please read my past article “Real Power Indicator (RPI)” http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/real-power-indicator-rpi--2323548/1/20 for more information on RPI calculations.

So, our actual RPI, after taking account of occupying eSK, is 1,199.5.

Now, theoretically, what if we have a cease-fire with eSK and they join TWO or if they are our ally. What are the calculations then?

Neutral / Friend State:

eROC: 1,931 (citizen population) * 1.2 (1 = base, +0.1 for each resource) = 2,317.2 Real Power (RPI)
eSK: 1,697 (citizen population) * 1.3 = 2,206.1 Real Power

Since, in this example, we are neutral to eROK, there will be no subtractions of our RPI with eSK. Thus, our total RPI will still be 2,317.2.

If relations improve and we are allies, we might even be able to add eSK’s RPI with ours:

2,317.2 + 2,206.1 = 4,523.3

But, that is a long-shot, given our current relations.

1,199.5 RPI with eSK as our enemy or 2,317.2 with eSK as neutral or ally, which would you choose? I would choose, for the interest of eTaiwan, the 2,317.2 and with eSK as neutral. The +50% resource bonus is not worth it.

Some eROC players may say eSK might back-stab us. Well, if both eROC and eROK are in the same alliance, eROK will *not* be able to betray us. If eSK does, then they will be kicked out of TWO and will be under occupation again, this time, with other TWO countries’ help.

I also want to make it clear that I am not against eTaiwan (my parents are from Taiwan, I'm ABC, not disclosing anything more). I want to use logic and mathematics to show that it is better to have eSouth Korea as a neutral than an enemy. If eSK only has 10 citizens or another low population number, then taking eSK for resource bonus would be worth it.

PS: If you disagree with the RPI calculations, I can build a similar case using only citizen population numbers and it will be even more in favor of having eSK as a neutral/ally.

Thank you for reading my article and translations are welcome.

Please vote and share!

 

Comments

TLay
TLay Day 2,143, 02:02

V
雖然我看不懂

Xenocryst
Xenocryst Day 2,143, 02:14

V Well organized article, and good analysis. Bravo!

Aside from any further indulgence in the political arena and military action, "Having fun" is prioritized before anything else.

Asking any eROC citizen this question. "Are you having fun warring with eSK?" The statistical result of "Yes we do" would reign supreme over any other options.

In another sense, You may provide the community different perspectives and strategic analysis for the community to consider, but however the will of a nation along the desire of the citizens would direct the decisions of the government in the very end.

Public pull was launched by Klonoa to reflect the result, ergo it is the decisions of the active players in eROC.


Thank you for a great article, Keep on the good work!

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,143, 03:12

Thank you Xenocryst. My objective here is to give alternative viewpoints and to keep citizens well-informed. People here are free to choose what they want.

Having fun is also an important factor in eRepublik because if players are having fun, then they will be more likely to stay in this game. If eROC citizens think the war with eSK is "fun" then those citizens will be more likely to stay. That should also be factored in the equation.

Tzu Liang Day 2,143, 02:24

Comment deleted

Tzu Liang
Tzu Liang Day 2,143, 02:38

a COT propaganda that try to tear us apart.

anyway from the news you post on past, it proof to us "once a troller, always a troller"

read the history of them and you will find out once a backstaber, always a backstaber, you only do this by number and ignore all other issue.

this is for you
http://i.imgur.com/YF9MTp5.jpg

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,143, 03:36

I appreciate your opinion and your "blue screen of death" picture. Unfortunately, I would like you to clarify your position:

You wrote: "a COT propaganda that try to tear us apart."

Do you have any evidence that this is a CoT propaganda. What do you mean that it's a CoT propaganda? What are some newspaper articles you can refer to to back your claim? On the contrary, there is a natural reason why eSouth Korea will want to join TWO. eSK is on the losing side. They know that if they continue to back CoT, they many not gain independence anytime soon.

You wrote: "read the history of them and you will find out once a backstaber, always a backstaber,"

In truth, history can be disputed. There are different versions of reality. For example, the school textbook in Taiwan that teaches about World War II history will be different from the same textbook in Japan or in America. How do you know eROC is telling the truth? One side says this and another side says another.

But assuming that the eROC history regarding eSK is correct, I don't agree with your quote "once a backstaber, always a backstaber." People can change. If a child does something wrong, his or her parents can correct the child. If a citizen breaks a law and goes to jail, that person can be rehabilitated. If what you say is true, that “once a backstaber, always a backstaber,” then there will be no need for prisons. If people are bad, if they break laws, the first thing we should do is to kill them because people can’t change according to your logic. Like people, countries are made up of people. They can change. eSK can change. In the Real World, Japan used to be an enemy of the US, but now, they are one of their closest allies.

(continued)

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,143, 03:37

You wrote: “you only do this by number and ignore all other issue.”

My analysis is primarily by number but I also look at other issues. I know the diplomatic issue between eROC and eSK, at least a little bit. I know the relations are not good. I know some examples from past history that led to bitterness. Another issue I am looking at is the future. Our alliance with TWO may or may not last for long. What happens if that breaks? Who will be our support? If eSK is not our enemy, we can at least have more firepower to focus on those threats. The main focus in this article is calculation and mathematics. I could focus on other issues when I write other articles.


*I am trying to use logic and reason to discuss with you. If you have a counter-point, feel free to let me know and I’ll do my best to respond to it, as my time permits. And if you are right, then I will concede that point and say you are right. I would also like you to respect me as a person because if you treat me unequally, there can be no honorable debate.

K9000K
K9000K Day 2,143, 04:33

"Japan used to be an enemy of the US, but now, they are one of their closest allies."

japanese: dear allies US, please provide us weapons.
american: um, who are u ?
japanese: american daddy, I am your son, your slave, your bxxxh!

its called allies LOL

and one day
korean: dear allies US, please provide us weapons.
......
......
......

YomiYuri
YomiYuri Day 2,143, 06:27

V

Occupying eROK is not only for the resource, but also for our conviction. Though I don't care resource... I just think the lands of eROK must be occupied by eROC.

By the way, eROK's credit is already went bankrupt for MANY times. How can any country believe them?

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,143, 10:06

Conviction.. ok, it’s your world .

I think going bankrupt has less effect in this game. If a ecountry goes bankrupt, it will mostly just affect the alliances and I think that is why eSK went bankrupt in the past (if they really went bankrupt, but let’s assume that they did). With their economy and small player base, they can’t afford many alliances. Right now, looking at their economy and military screen, they are in OK financial condition but they only have four alliances. Having four alliances makes sense for them and it shows they are not spending beyond their means. If a country goes bankrupt in the Real World, however, it is much more severe, similar to the US Government shutdown they are having now..

YomiYuri
YomiYuri Day 2,143, 17:29

I just think we (eROC) shouldn't be cheated again and again.

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,143, 21:11

@ Yuri Alright, I understand.

Albert tseng
Albert tseng Day 2,143, 08:12

我需要翻譯 (吐血

Silver Flag
Silver Flag Day 2,143, 10:31

google翻譯大概可以讓你看懂4成

Bubble Dragon
Bubble Dragon Day 2,144, 00:01

costs of occupation?

oops, I hope eSK to arrange a RW every possible time We need wars. This is a war game, and people are leaving because it becomes borings without wars that eROC directly invloved. Please, give us more eSK rw. I would also like to get more medals from BH and TP points. Come on!

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,144, 01:55

Bubble Dragon, while a big part of this game is war, not everyone has to follow that path. Citizens also play this game because of the social aspect, the community, or the economic aspect of building up companies and selling goods.

You wrote that without eROC wars, the game becomes boring. That goes along the line as Xenocryst said, that wars create fun. And that is a good reason to have a war, so our citizens may continue to stay in the game and not leave.

However, there are arguments against this. If players have the self-discipline to continue playing the game even if it seems boring, such as in times of peace, our ecountry can prosper more. Wars drain our resources and in this game, our resources are food and weapons. If our country is in times of peace, then our citizens can sell those resources in the market to improve their economy or they can use the money to stockpile Q7 food and weapons for a life-threatening war.

If players have the discipline to continue playing if there is no war, those RW’s by eSK is actually a big black hole that is draining each citizen’s resources. The resource bonus we gain (and maybe more) by occupying goes into that black hole.

And we need to be careful what we wish for. If we always want a war, we may soon get a war that we cannot win. Then our country will be occupied and our citizens may get discouraged and quit playing because of it.

Bubble Dragon
Bubble Dragon Day 2,144, 05:18

We do not want a war that we cannot win, eg. the one to fight against eUSA for 2-3 months earlier this year. But eSK RW is something we can handle.

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,144, 01:55

As for the medals, from a mathematical standpoint, it is not worth it. The citizen can earn more gold by selling the items used in the battle than by using them to get BH. And, many times, other citizens will compete for the BH making it more costly and it can also cause arguments with other BH-seeking citizens. As for the TP medal, the damage needed to earn medals grows exponentially. Each additional medal requires more and more damage making the cost of earning each medal more costly. The medals are mostly for bragging rights; it’s mostly for decoration. It looks good on our profiles but nothing else. But, if earning medals and decorations can motivate a player to remain in the game, then those pursuits are worth it.

Thank you for bringing up those points.

Bubble Dragon
Bubble Dragon Day 2,144, 05:35

For bh, are you sure? can you show the mathematical analysis? For example, this morning, I spent less than 130ff to generate 18.8m with the help of pvp. Could you tell me how can I earn more than 5 gold by doing something else?

You know what? There are some ffs to spend, why not for TP points at the same time? For example, for people who regularly solve daily order, isn't great to earn some TPs? And sorry man, the damage needed to earn a medal does not grow exponentially, it has been 100m now, and 100m for each later.

In addition to BH and TP, hearing that eSK spent 300k cc for nothing in a RW is PRICELESS.

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,144, 10:41

I have to go to class soon so I won't be able to answer your points fully but, concerning whether the BH medal is worth partially depends on the citizen's strength. For me, I only have about 10k strength and I think the average to get a BH on division 4 is about 40 million. I wouldn't be able to reach 40 million damage with Q7 weapon and 1,300 energy. For me to get that damage, I will need to buy energy bars or bazookas and that will cost gold. In the end, for my case, getting a BH for gold is not worth it.

For the True Patriot medal, you are right. I didn't know it caps at 100m because I haven't reached 100 million yet. I only see the requirement going higher and higher. But still, 100 million damage just to get 5 gold. I can do the calculations later but to make an educated guess, it will cost more for me to buy the food and weapons to reach 100 million damage than to just sell the weapons and food and exchange it for gold at the monetary market.

Bubble Dragon
Bubble Dragon Day 2,144, 11:47

For TP points, if you do daily order regularly, I do not see how it is not better to finish daily order with extra TP points.

AdjiForce Day 2,144, 01:02

Comment deleted

AdjiForce
AdjiForce Day 2,144, 01:05

who cares? if you want war, move to other countries

Steveeven Day 2,144, 01:57

Comment deleted

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,144, 02:23

I can't say "most," but many of our citizens don't want to fight for other countries. They want to fight for eROC.

siugar
siugar Day 2,144, 02:37

good article

MinHsien Sung
MinHsien Sung Day 2,144, 04:04

V
Our hatred for eSK is absolutely irreconcilable..

Silence Assassin
Silence Assassin Day 2,144, 04:50

v
Although I don't agree with you, but it's still a good analysis.

klonoa wind Day 2,144, 10:07

Comment deleted

klonoa wind
klonoa wind Day 2,144, 10:07

V
but it has lots of informations
I will think twice about that
Although eSK is cheating us again and again
so many times whatever you think
they will betray you

klonoa wind

klonoa wind
klonoa wind Day 2,144, 10:09

btw , this is great response well done sir

Steveeven
Steveeven Day 2,144, 19:03

thank you sir

 
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